McMaster-carr and msc alternative seals
05-15-10, 11:01 PM
#1
McMaster-carr and msc alternative seals
anyone know first hand if you can get dowel o-rings and the front cover o-rings through them? I know you can get inner coolant seals, but I think it would be helpful to have a thread with all the alternatives and part numbers listed that they have available.. unless that inner o ring is the only seal they have that can be retrofitted of course..
05-16-10, 04:18 AM
#2
talking head
dunno about those traders ( we dont have in oz )
but you will have to ask them if they supply JIS standard NBR O ring kits
-- these have the correct 2.4mm cross section commonly used in japanese engines
ie,, timing cover is correctly replaced with a JIS 11.8 ( ID ) x 2.4 mm ( CS )
though non JIS metric ( euro size ) will give you a 12.0 x 2.5mm ,, which fits considerably tighter,, with more crush
i use OZ local suppliers when i rebuild,, and use viton coolant seals,, viton oil control rings and NBR JIS standard O rings for the dowels and timing cover
- all sourced from non mazda suppliers ,, at around 35 % of the cost
and PS,, all the part numbers i have listed on the oz forum !
but you will have to ask them if they supply JIS standard NBR O ring kits
-- these have the correct 2.4mm cross section commonly used in japanese engines
ie,, timing cover is correctly replaced with a JIS 11.8 ( ID ) x 2.4 mm ( CS )
though non JIS metric ( euro size ) will give you a 12.0 x 2.5mm ,, which fits considerably tighter,, with more crush
i use OZ local suppliers when i rebuild,, and use viton coolant seals,, viton oil control rings and NBR JIS standard O rings for the dowels and timing cover
- all sourced from non mazda suppliers ,, at around 35 % of the cost
and PS,, all the part numbers i have listed on the oz forum !
Last edited by bumpstart; 05-16-10 at 04:21 AM. Reason: PS
05-16-10, 04:23 AM
#3
talking head
http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.p...0&hilit=jipped
please note the contact details listed are for a western australian supplier !
prices listed are $AUS
however sizing information may come handy for those making there own rebuild kits
0cm2v7 ( 2.0, viton 75 )
0cm2-4v7 ( 2.4, viton 75 )
0cm2n7 ( 2.0, NBR 70 )
0cm2-5n7 ( 2.5 NBR 70 )
0k2setn7 --kits, o ring NBR 70 , set of 5 ( thats the massive O ring kits ! )
( $60 looked after )
ok thems the details for the O rings
NBR is nitrile butyl rubber, or buna-n for WW2 buffs
viton 75 is a newer , better alternative, as discussed above
( has 67% flouro silicon which makes it a newer closer cousin to mazdas special O rings )
here is the sting
nitrile is around $3.70 a metre
- well worth the effort
but due to its -40 to 120 centigrade design temps
you may want to use the RTV silicon to heat buffer it !
( not that i think that the heat range is incorrect, just not any buffer ! )
the viton 75 is MUCH more expensive at $20 a metre
but handles -30 to 205 centigrade
but , doesn't work out cheaper for the outer ring ( maybe select NBR there for 2.0 )
and works out only around 50% of a saving over mazda inners
- but will be physically more compression resistant ( and by reports reusable )
more chemically resistant
equivalent in heat resistant
more tear resistant
and prouder for less true housings
the number code used signifies hardness [ shore test A ]
and you can get NBR and VITON in 90 !!
http://www.transeals.com.au/seals/datas ... -rings.pdf
order by quoting the dash number ( imperial ) or the metric size, then material
specify ID, then CS ( inside diameter of ring, cross section of rubber )
using a little silicon as holding helper is not as messy as it sounds !
this is a viton glue join
and it joined easily and strongly
( stronger than a laminated OEM inner seal join )
its cut straight and glued with black and gold super glue !
just to make it all stunningly easy
- inner 740 mm , 2.4 mm CS per plate surface
( its fractionally long and fills outer edge of groove perfectly )
= 3m for engine
- outer 930 mm , 2.0 mm CS
= 3.6 m for engine
you also need 4 x ( 15.8 mm x 2.4 mm ) NBR O rings for the engine oil passage dowels
and 1 x ( 11.8 mm x 2.4 mm ) NBR O ring for the S5 type timing cover passage
( and nylon insert )
using charts i have supplied above, it wont be hard to suss the rear stat O ring
and oil pedestal O rings
which brings rebuilds down to bare minimum OEM front and rear seals and timing and inlet and exhaust gaskets
( and pickup gasket )
edit ,, o ring length reviewed 4/10/2009 to be fractionally longer
- push o ring to outside of the track to make the longer lengths fit
please note the contact details listed are for a western australian supplier !
prices listed are $AUS
however sizing information may come handy for those making there own rebuild kits
Originally Posted by bumpstart
0cm2v7 ( 2.0, viton 75 )
0cm2-4v7 ( 2.4, viton 75 )
0cm2n7 ( 2.0, NBR 70 )
0cm2-5n7 ( 2.5 NBR 70 )
0k2setn7 --kits, o ring NBR 70 , set of 5 ( thats the massive O ring kits ! )
( $60 looked after )
transeals
08 94516011 ( WA )
inner and outer oil seals , not mazda
VITON 75 O'ring 4.737 x 0.103'' PART No 158v7 at $4.99each
VITON 75 O'ring 110.0 x 3.0mm part No 110X3v7 at $8.21each
08 94516011 ( WA )
inner and outer oil seals , not mazda
VITON 75 O'ring 4.737 x 0.103'' PART No 158v7 at $4.99each
VITON 75 O'ring 110.0 x 3.0mm part No 110X3v7 at $8.21each
NBR is nitrile butyl rubber, or buna-n for WW2 buffs
viton 75 is a newer , better alternative, as discussed above
( has 67% flouro silicon which makes it a newer closer cousin to mazdas special O rings )
here is the sting
nitrile is around $3.70 a metre
- well worth the effort
but due to its -40 to 120 centigrade design temps
you may want to use the RTV silicon to heat buffer it !
( not that i think that the heat range is incorrect, just not any buffer ! )
the viton 75 is MUCH more expensive at $20 a metre
but handles -30 to 205 centigrade
but , doesn't work out cheaper for the outer ring ( maybe select NBR there for 2.0 )
and works out only around 50% of a saving over mazda inners
- but will be physically more compression resistant ( and by reports reusable )
more chemically resistant
equivalent in heat resistant
more tear resistant
and prouder for less true housings
the number code used signifies hardness [ shore test A ]
and you can get NBR and VITON in 90 !!
http://www.transeals.com.au/seals/datas ... -rings.pdf
order by quoting the dash number ( imperial ) or the metric size, then material
specify ID, then CS ( inside diameter of ring, cross section of rubber )
Originally Posted by bumpstart
using a little silicon as holding helper is not as messy as it sounds !
this is a viton glue join
and it joined easily and strongly
( stronger than a laminated OEM inner seal join )
its cut straight and glued with black and gold super glue !
just to make it all stunningly easy
- inner 740 mm , 2.4 mm CS per plate surface
( its fractionally long and fills outer edge of groove perfectly )
= 3m for engine
- outer 930 mm , 2.0 mm CS
= 3.6 m for engine
you also need 4 x ( 15.8 mm x 2.4 mm ) NBR O rings for the engine oil passage dowels
and 1 x ( 11.8 mm x 2.4 mm ) NBR O ring for the S5 type timing cover passage
( and nylon insert )
using charts i have supplied above, it wont be hard to suss the rear stat O ring
and oil pedestal O rings
which brings rebuilds down to bare minimum OEM front and rear seals and timing and inlet and exhaust gaskets
( and pickup gasket )
edit ,, o ring length reviewed 4/10/2009 to be fractionally longer
- push o ring to outside of the track to make the longer lengths fit
Last edited by bumpstart; 05-16-10 at 04:30 AM.
05-20-10, 05:02 AM
#5
Speed Mach Go Go Go
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Does viton get brittle? I noticed they didn't fall out. I pulled one out and it seemed very hard. Is viton 75 better then the orange ones I bought years ago?
05-20-10, 08:16 PM
#6
talking head
and think its more successful than the stock water seal in instances where housings or plates may have some corrosion or be less than perfectly true
( where as the OEM seal has no tolerance for less than mint )
i also have used them at 1.1 and 1.3 bar coolant pressures
( where as at 1.3 bar the coolant seal track failed,, but not the seal )
when i have had to pull down some of these engines,, the seal is still intact,, and some instances re-useable if required
( though am prudent enough just to exchange them,, as the risk is not worth the savings )
they are certainly in much better nick than low Km used OEM units,, which are always separating at the lamination
- and always compressed and stretched to so as to never fit again
i found that using nitrile instead of viton for the outer water seal can amount to some savings
-and its also coped well ( in the outside track )- but does come out stretched and a little hardened
as for viton as the oil control ring substitute,, jury is still out,, waiting to see how long they will go
i was under the impression that they may be used in some rx8's,, but never have confirmed this
-- the outer size ( imperial ) is fractionally large and 0/S in diameter,, making a tricky fit for only a few $ savings over the OEM seal
the inner size is a brilliant fit,, and offers substantial cost savings over the OEM unit
as for the JIS kit O rings for the rest of the motor, AOK
--though some may instead use the european metric equiv for the timing cover
( JIS is 11.8 x 2.4mm ( c/s ) ,, while european is 12.0 x 2.5 )
and others may choose the imperial 0.676" ( ID ) x 0.70" ( c/s ) for the dowel O rings
05-20-10, 11:13 PM
#7
I've been using 18 awg speaker wire for my outer coolant seals that's about as cheap as it gets. on the inners there is a little too much heat for it unfortunately.
I'm going to be running the mcmaster carr inners with 18awg wire for the outer when putting this new ported s5 engine together.
this pic is my old irons. in this pic I have both inner and outer wire, although this engine was tore down right after it's first startup.. due to me not specing my oil seals before assembly...
I think the roll was 5-6 dollars for 4 builds worth of outer coolant seals +17 dollars for rtv right stuff = 2-4 builds worth.. depending on what all you use it on.
I'm going to be running the mcmaster carr inners with 18awg wire for the outer when putting this new ported s5 engine together.
this pic is my old irons. in this pic I have both inner and outer wire, although this engine was tore down right after it's first startup.. due to me not specing my oil seals before assembly...
I think the roll was 5-6 dollars for 4 builds worth of outer coolant seals +17 dollars for rtv right stuff = 2-4 builds worth.. depending on what all you use it on.
