tmiked

This thread comes across like a popularity contest. As if we can set the laws of thermodynamics by voting for who we think is right.
Its Physics 101 & Thermo 101 vs. the Flat Earth Society.

Where's YZF when we need him to present a biblical perspective on the effects of ceramic coatings on the fires of hell.

epion2985

bump.... anyone?

deadRX7Conv

Just about anything can be coated.

It all depends on how much money you have and want to spend.

There should be enough cooling surface area in the exhaust pipe to "not worry" about the muffler if it is a quality one. Cheap mufflers die regardless.

Plenty of reading to draw your own conclusion. I have not seen an application that did not benefit.
People who claim of problems with them either are "spreading hearsay" or went to a discount "coater". Pick your company carefully.

http://www.zircotec.com/exhaust.html
http://www.swaintech.com/price.html
http://www.finishlinecoatings.com/faq.html
http://www.polydyn.com/hpec.htm
http://www.thinair-usa.com/Ceramic.html
http://www.hpcoatings.com/engine_coatings.htm
http://www.jet-hot.com
http://www.classiccoatings.com
http://www.performancecoatings.com/
http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/techline/ie.html
http://www.olycoatings.com/thermo.html
http://www.dynamiccoatingsinc.com/pg3.htm
http://www.mclube.com/frames/lubricat/index.html
http://www.techlinecoatings.com/introduction.html
http://www.usnicom.com/

epion2985

thanks!! Looks like I have some reading to do. Btw, do you recomend anyone? I am looking ofcoarse for the two things, price and quality. Thanks again.

fstrnyou

Aren't RacingBeat mufflers packed with a ceramic material?

fstrnyou

You want the heat to go out the exhaust. The more heat you keep in the chamber the better. That will increase efficiency. You are correct about the possibility of running more boost, but only marginally. If you stuff too much air/fuel into too small of an area, it will pre-ignite/detonate.

fstrnyou

This is correct.

That is one way to do it.

I think you might be mixing things up a bit. Heat and pressure are the main ingredients for detonation/pre-ignition. We're talking about after the air/fuel has already been ignited via spark plug. After it has been ingnited is when you want as much pressure as possible. But with this pressure, you get heat. And if you reduce the amount of heat in the combustion chamber then you loose pressure. So by keeping more heat in the combustion chamber after ingition then you get more pressure with the same amount of air/fuel mixture. And since pressure is what makes the motor spin, more pressure = more power, and more power with the same amount of air/fuel mixture = more efficiency. isn't that what we're all going for?

It would be great to have very low temperatures and very high pressure at the same time but it just can't happen given the apparatus we are using. (although that is what intercoolers are for, you get a lot more pressure and a little more heat.)
What you don't want is a lot of heat before the combustion is intended to occur. By reducing the temperatures of the metal components, less heat will be transferred to the air/fuel mix as it makes its way to the spark plug, thereby reducing the possibility for pre-ignition/detonation.

epion2985

thank you!! you have cleared up quite a few things for me.

epion2985

just realized something. Say you have ceramic coating on the inside of your combustion chamber to keep the heat in after ignition like you said and make more power. You also said that you want good cooling so the heat absorbed by the engine (combined with the pressure) wont cause the mixture to detonate eary. Well the ceramic coat will keep the heat in alright, but it will also insulate the combustion chamber so the cooling wont be as effective right....

fstrnyou

Coolant is needed to cool the engine parts that absorb heat from combustion. If the engine parts aren't getting as hot from combustion due to the coatings, that just means the coolant system has to do less work. It is just a capable at taking heat away, but there isn't as much heat to take. Which also means that coolant temperatures will drop. Can't say how much tho. But, that heat has to go somewhere. All that heat that doesn't get absorbed into the motor goes out the exhaust.

fstrnyou

As if rotary exhaust temps weren't hot enough...

Erdin

Would the ceramic coating of the combution chamber chip off or flake with time or will it wear off in the long run.

fstrnyou

I don't have any experience with ceramic coatings but it seems to me that it would wear off the housings. I'm not really sure if using ceramic apex seals would make a difference. Only way to be sure is for someone who has rebuilt a motor that incorporated coated housings to reply.

deadRX7Conv

Coatings should not wear off any "non touched parts" like rotor faces/exhaust systems.....

Coatings will wear off at any contact point. But, this takes a very long time if the quality is good.

Mazda uses coatings on the housings/rotors.....If there was a problem, all our engines would be long dead.

another supplier to add to above list:
www.calicocoatings.com

fstrnyou

ya, but i think mazda used some sort of nickel plating. which is a hard metal plating. only cause aluminum housings with no plating would last about a month before the apex seals won't even touch anymore.

fstrnyou

all depends on how hard ceramic coatings are.

epion2985

if you use ceramic seals with ceramic coated housings, and ceramic seals being portraied as self lubricating, ceramic on ceramic should have so little friction there should be almost no wear, and with less friction less heat, and the engine will gain rpms faster..... from my perception of things anyway...

CypherNinja

Yah, it totally depends on the coating. Most are not meant to be in contact with moving parts. But, one that was designed to should hold up fine.


FYI, I believe the stock coating is chrome, but I heard somewhere that the race teams often use something else. But what? Hmmmmmm........

fstrnyou

i don't know, i do know that coating companies offer to coat piston skirts and they make contact with the cylinder wall. just a thought.