Ricter

Hey everyone, I'm new here, and have I go a story for you, hopefully someone here can help me with a conclusion.
Thia may be a little long, but please bear with me.

Anyway, I purchased my 1993 Black touring about 2 months ago, and didn't have much problems with it. I took to it a "reputable" rx-7 specialty shop around here to have it looked over, and there was a small list of things to be fixed. rear axle fills, fuel filter replacement, Oil pan gasket, intake manifold gasket, and rear stationary O-Ring. The latter 2 being the important ones. Well, after shelling out 2 grand for that work, and being assured my RX was now 100% without flaw I happily drove it away... for about two days. The n driving along in seconf gear, I suddenly lose alot of power as smoke billows being me, and my car stalls. AAA tows it back to the shop for me, and I get a call 3 days later saying my Apex seals have probably been blown. They don't knw for sure because they havent torn the entire engine down to find out, but they DO know I need a new engine. Supposedly this is due to no fualt of theirs and not covered under their warranty, so they want me to shell out another 5 grand for a new motor. What I'm looking for is information, and what might have happened to cause this, could changing either that rear O-ring, or intake gasket have been the cause of blown seals if something wasn't done right? I want to argue the case with them, it's just too much of a coincidene that my now 100% rx-7 blows a motor 2 days after they work on it, but I have no information to back up my claims... can anyome help?

Thanks,

Richard

PraxRX7

Well I dunno....but it could have something to do with the intake manifold gasket (or something in regards to replacing it)...but I would get a second opinion or look into what is required for replacing the gasket (what steps etc.)

I don't know much about that but anything to do with the intake anything could have screwed something up.

(How many miles/kilometers do you have on that thing?)

Maybe someone else here will give you some more specific help, I am only 3-4 months into my first RX-7

PraxRX7

*FROm another post*
vaughnc posted:

Turned out the intake was cracked and and it was fooling the ECU into a lean or rich condition. The O2 sensors were picking up this fake condition. When the ECU tried to compensate, I think it was cutting or sevearly limiting air and/or fuel.

Error codes were both O2 sensors (turbo only) and thermo.

I dunno if that helps at all, but that is kind of what I was aiming at, maybe it was causing your car to run rich or lean...

zyounker

Any competant shop should be able to do a compression check.. They do not need to pull the engine to tell you if the apex seals blew.. Take your car somewhere else..


Anyone know of a good shop around him? Also did they want $4K Total for engine & labor? or just for the engine?


A mazda reman is only around $2-3K at most..


-Zach

Ricter

It was 5 k for motor and labor combined, eta of a week on the labor. I'm gonna get some time off work tomorrow to go meet with them and discuss the situation, I'll get a breakdown then of how much of that 5k is for labor, and how much is for the motor. Does anyone know the going rates of these engines, and where I could get a good deal?

Also about the ECU,a nd running rich/lean I wish my problem was that simple, but by the way it's losing oil, I'm sure it's not. I forgot to mention in my previous post that it was indeed losing quite a bit of oil from the bottom of the car.


Thanks for your help,

Richard

Brad

Well, I'm sorry...but if you paid that shop $2000 to do the work you stated, then they are already in the habit of ******* you in the ***. You could easily replace the fuel filter, manifold gasket and oil pan gasket yourself for about $100 and a couple hours work. I dunno about the O-ring though, never done that before.

Definitely get a compression check done. You can even do a rough check yourself. http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobi...ompression.htm

If it turns out you need a motor, look on the bright side...you will have a brand new motor that you can take care of the right way. You will enjoy many tens of thousands of miles on a new properly maintained motor.

tims

the leak at the manifold is what caused the engine failure. any lean condition with any turbo rotary will eventually cause detonation and terminal engine failure. for sure check the compression and seek out another opinion. I would also try to make a reasonable deal with the current shop. I would suggest to the person who is in charge that you spent 2 grand on repairs and they proclaimed the car 100 percent, and two days later it blew the motor for no reason will not be a good answer in front of a small claims judge. they should at least cover the labor to remove and install the new motor. if not I would have a judge decide. good mechanics make mistakes but they usually try to remedy them. it is not necessary to dissasemble the motor to diagnose a broken apex seal. have the compression checked and try to get them to cooperate

Ricter

Well, I just got back from the shop, I don't dealing with the ppl there, they seem to be good, though expensive, but in this area they're all there is. Anyway Prices broke down like this:

labor : 2,025$
engine: 2,300$

Seems like a good price on the engine to me based on what I've seen so far, and I noticed even on the last set of work I had them do, that labor prices were insane. But their shop is full of many very nice, and very fast RX-7's, they've been in business here for quite some time, and seem to know what they are doing. I'm gonna chalk this on up to just really bad timing, and no fault of theirs. The mechanic did tell me that the problem with the intake manifold had probably been that way for a long time, which attributed to it blowing the seals, he also said a compression test was done before I picked it up last time and it checked out fine. Anway, now comes the hard part... watching my FD sit in my front yard for the next 4-5months whilst I save up 5 grand...

Thanks for everyone help and info,

Richard

mmaragos

For the initial work they did (essentially $2K in labor), I would expect them to give you a great break on the labor to put that engine in (maybe 1/2 or even less).

I'm in Raleigh, just curious to know who did the work. If you don't want to name on the board, how about PM me?

I haven't taken my FD to anyone in NC because I didn't think that there was a competent rotary tuner here.

Mine is up on jack stands now as I am doing some significant work...I'm the relatively new owner of my FD and proper maintenance was never done...in addition doing some upgrades.

If you are going to have the shop do the work, I would make sure that they don't overlook or neglect to address some of the issues that may exist on an FD (that has an unknown maintenance background).

At a minimum, I would check:
1. Vacuum hoses
2. Radiator (at a minimum it needs to be flushed and checked for damage - my tanks were almost split) FDs will overheat in a heartbeat. An aftermarket radiator would probably be a good idea.
3. Belts (they should be using new on the new engine)
4. AST (replace with aluminum one or eliminate, "weak" link in cooling system)
5. Plug wires (they should be using new, along with new plugs)
6. Thermostat (they should be using new)

I would also install a boost gauge if you do not have one. Small investment that will help you tell if they do the job right, and will tell you when your turbo system is not running properly.

Probably some other stuff too, but this is a good start.

I am still learning too, in addition to this forum, there are some very good sites out there. The DIY sites will give you some good insight as to what you should consider on your FD.

I would think that they did something to your car that they shouldn't have the timing is just too much of a coincidence. Could have been anything from somthing stupid like them getting something into the oil pan or intake (foreign anything will kill your engine), to your engine running lean and detonating. Difficult to say without tearing into it, checking compression and the internals.

Let us know when you get back on the road.

88and93

Sorry to hear your sad story. I would contact http://www.rotorsportsracing.com before getting any further in bed with the shop you have been screwed by already. They are in Kannapolis and know what they are doing. Park it for the winter, buy a beater if you have to, save your money, and enjoy life in the spring.

CYM TKT

iTrader: (4)

I took my 7 to Mcnair Performance in Raleigh. thats the only RX-7 place I know of in the area. all they did was put on my down pipe, which works great, but it was expensive, probably the same place. I think there is a place in Charlotte, but I dont know where it is. I actually drive to PA for KDR to do my work. he is honest and less expensive than many places. if you can afford to tow the car there, I would recommend it, or at least go to PFS in manassas ( about .5 the dist. to KDR)

Ricter

Thanks for the Link 88and93, I called the number on their website, and they gave me a much better deal that I found at McNair, I still have to let my car sit while I save up some cash, but when I do I think I'll be getting it towed to Kannapolis for them to do the work.

Thanks Again!

Xentrix

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD

be cautious with rotorsports

"Ridge Tech"

got a rebuild there and he has had nothing but trouble with the car.


I belive there was another post somewhere where a dude had his car ported incorrectly there.

Listed

I know a tech that used to live near me and then moved to Raleigh, N.C. last year. He's been working on RX-7s since 1981 and had almost every 7 in the tristate area in his shop at one time or another. As I recall he got $3200 for 2nd gens installed, I never inquired about a 3rd gen.
email me at cowens5@wvu.edu and I'll send you his name. You would then have to look him up because I never got a number from him.

chris

r0t0rhead

iTrader: (12)

If "Ridge Tech" had work performed by us that was unsatisfatory -please tell him to bring it back and we will correct the problem. We guarantee our services and back all our non racing engines with a warranty and over 20 years of rotary engine experience.

Ricter

"We guarantee our services and back all our non racing engines"


Does that mean you don't offer that guarantee on your porting working, or are street ported and bridgeported engines not considered 'Racing" engines?

I'm definitly getting my new engine street-ported, and wanted to know if that guarantee still applies.

r0t0rhead

iTrader: (12)

Yes -our Streetported engines that are not used in competition ARE warranted. Please feel free to contact me for our complete engine warranty information. Streetporting shouldn't have adverse effects on engine durability if the proper tuning is performed.
Our Bridgeported engines are prepared to totally different specifications since the engine is designed for race use with different operating parameters ( 3 to 24 hour endurance races operating at constant 7000-11,000 rpms require extensive modification for the engine to survive). We do not offer a 12 month warranty on Bridgeported engines since these are not specifically designed for street use. No other racing engine builder can offer one either, there are just too many variables involved in that environment.
Many people put BP motors in their streetcars and like it. Personally I advise against it for a number of reasons.

Regards,
Bryan Smith

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

OK, labor is expensive, but DAMN thats high as hell!

I dont know about 3rd generation RX-7's, but the book says 14 hours for a 1st generation rx-7 motor change. I could do it in about 6 If I was goofing off and drinking beer.. LOL

At $2025 labor, and if they were super expensive charging $75 an hour that would be 28.92 hours. Does it really take that long to remove the engine, and swap intake etc to the next motor and reinstall it in the car?

Id be asking some questions Call a Mazda dealer and have them look in the ASE manual and see how long the book says for a motor swap in your car... I think they milking the golden cow...

Mr rx-7 tt

iTrader: (5)

Mach 2 did..He said he had rotor sports port job (streetport) and the porting was done incorrectly...I have been building /porting motors for over 20 years and it was done incorrectly...You also have to give rotorsports a fair shot. Is this for sure the company that did the work..?? I know of an Rx-7 up in my neck of the woods that has a motor from them and it seems to work perfect....They do warranty thier work ...BTW: There are always 2 sides to a story..remeber the KDR bashing and Dave filled us in on the truth..?? I think if this shop did crummy work we would know, bad work travels fast on the forum..Mach 2 you out there..???