Accidentally grounded out my alternator
05-26-12, 11:30 AM
#1
Accidentally grounded out my alternator
Ok so after fresh rebuild got everything in everything worked ok just had some idol issues
so i dc'd the batt unhooked a few connectors cleaned them up and plugged them back in
All eccept the alternator wire that bolts on. went back to battery and connected ground.
as i connected ground to battery i heard a hard spark from the engine bay the alt wire arked against the strut tower (feeling like an idiot) i dc'd the battery once again back to engine bay connected wire back to alt and then connected bat once again.
Now the car cranks doesnt start, no power to fp no odomiter comes up when key is turned forward i dont know what else isnt working but i can say this, lights blinkers wiperswork but there are no interior lights any more and no power running bacn to fp like i siad. Also no fuses were blown
Battery is located in the back
Is this common to happen for what happened and how do i fix it?
so i dc'd the batt unhooked a few connectors cleaned them up and plugged them back in
All eccept the alternator wire that bolts on. went back to battery and connected ground.
as i connected ground to battery i heard a hard spark from the engine bay the alt wire arked against the strut tower (feeling like an idiot) i dc'd the battery once again back to engine bay connected wire back to alt and then connected bat once again.
Now the car cranks doesnt start, no power to fp no odomiter comes up when key is turned forward i dont know what else isnt working but i can say this, lights blinkers wiperswork but there are no interior lights any more and no power running bacn to fp like i siad. Also no fuses were blown
Battery is located in the back
Is this common to happen for what happened and how do i fix it?
05-26-12, 12:49 PM
#2
tard of teh century
When I grounded out mine it blew the main fuse, I think it's like a 100A or 120A. Though my car never ran correctly after that and had some weird electrical issues that may or may not have been related. I had done other work before doing that so I can't really relate the problems to one thing specifically.
05-26-12, 01:12 PM
#3
One of these that are taken out?
So after contimplating what could be wrong i tore out the driverside harness and main fuse block
The main fuse was distroyed but the cap doesnt have the sticker anymore and i couldnt tell which one it was. If it is one of the two on the right of the pic then ill replace it i just wanted to make sure that no other wires were damaged... what doesnt make sence is that everything else worked even though this fuse was damaged? Im Puzzled still!
The main fuse was distroyed but the cap doesnt have the sticker anymore and i couldnt tell which one it was. If it is one of the two on the right of the pic then ill replace it i just wanted to make sure that no other wires were damaged... what doesnt make sence is that everything else worked even though this fuse was damaged? Im Puzzled still!
05-26-12, 03:58 PM
#4
Ok so that was the fix cleaned up all the wires and grounds plugged her back in and turned the key and room started up woohoo anly for it to die again and scream at me that it needs more coolant because i dont have the plug in lol and the wire for it split right at the conector so i cant fix that.. i think it died from either flooding or from mo fuel. There is a little in the tank but i have never ran out so i couldnt tell you if it acurate or not
05-26-12, 04:21 PM
#5
yes, the 100A main fuse provides power for virtually everything beyond that fuse box, including ignition, fuel and ECU power. if the alternator charge wire grounds out and blows the fuse the car will not start.
if in doubt add more gas to the tank, and a new OEM level sensor is a little over $20 from mazdatrix or a mazda dealer.
if in doubt add more gas to the tank, and a new OEM level sensor is a little over $20 from mazdatrix or a mazda dealer.
05-26-12, 09:58 PM
#6
Well turn out it was flooded and still is since i have no carpet in the back i just unplugged fp conector and pulled the leading plugs cranked it for 15-20 sec and put everything back together tried starting again it kicked a couple times but wouldnt catch and probibly flooded again.... giving up for the night ganna drink off my frustrations.
One question though since its running rich would it be easier to start with intake and intercooler hooked up pushing air from the turbo? It started fine the first time with out it all on just wondering if its not getting enough air
One question though since its running rich would it be easier to start with intake and intercooler hooked up pushing air from the turbo? It started fine the first time with out it all on just wondering if its not getting enough air
05-26-12, 10:08 PM
#7
won't really make a difference as far as starting the car, should in theory be easier to start with the throttle body elbow off because there is less restriction pulling air through all the plumbing.
easiest method is a few shots of MMO into each vacuum port on the UIM at the passenger side of the bay. most flooding issues with new engines are caused by the assembly lube washed away by fuel during cranking and it has to be supplemented until you can run the engine for at least 15 minutes.
an aid to also getting the engine fired up is to apply just enough throttle to not engage the fuel cut feature, which is about 1/5th throttle to get just a little more air into the engine and to raise it above idle once it kicks on. most fresh engines will not idle right out of the gate so zero throttle input can easily result in a flooded engine.
easiest method is a few shots of MMO into each vacuum port on the UIM at the passenger side of the bay. most flooding issues with new engines are caused by the assembly lube washed away by fuel during cranking and it has to be supplemented until you can run the engine for at least 15 minutes.
an aid to also getting the engine fired up is to apply just enough throttle to not engage the fuel cut feature, which is about 1/5th throttle to get just a little more air into the engine and to raise it above idle once it kicks on. most fresh engines will not idle right out of the gate so zero throttle input can easily result in a flooded engine.
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05-27-12, 02:40 AM
#8
rotary sensei
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won't really make a difference as far as starting the car, should in theory be easier to start with the throttle body elbow off because there is less restriction pulling air through all the plumbing.
easiest method is a few shots of MMO into each vacuum port on the UIM at the passenger side of the bay. most flooding issues with new engines are caused by the assembly lube washed away by fuel during cranking and it has to be supplemented until you can run the engine for at least 15 minutes.
an aid to also getting the engine fired up is to apply just enough throttle to not engage the fuel cut feature, which is about 1/5th throttle to get just a little more air into the engine and to raise it above idle once it kicks on. most fresh engines will not idle right out of the gate so zero throttle input can easily result in a flooded engine.
easiest method is a few shots of MMO into each vacuum port on the UIM at the passenger side of the bay. most flooding issues with new engines are caused by the assembly lube washed away by fuel during cranking and it has to be supplemented until you can run the engine for at least 15 minutes.
an aid to also getting the engine fired up is to apply just enough throttle to not engage the fuel cut feature, which is about 1/5th throttle to get just a little more air into the engine and to raise it above idle once it kicks on. most fresh engines will not idle right out of the gate so zero throttle input can easily result in a flooded engine.
05-27-12, 10:05 AM
#9
No didnt get it yet. getting ready to head iver to the garage i left the leading plugs out all night to try and dry up as much as i could like i siad after first deflood she kicked a couple times but im sure i flooded it again.
also you wouldnt happen to know what pin on the harness controls the tstat warning scream i can fix that plug but i think i wraped up the wire so i think ill pull the pin and re.run a new wire to it and solder the connector
also you wouldnt happen to know what pin on the harness controls the tstat warning scream i can fix that plug but i think i wraped up the wire so i think ill pull the pin and re.run a new wire to it and solder the connector
05-27-12, 12:24 PM
#10
me? probably but got buried. currently i have 150 unread PMs and limited time to read/respond to them. i will try to dig it up and respond.
easiest way to fix the water level sender for the time being is to strip the remaining wire and attach a ring terming to the broken end and bolt it somewhere on the engine to a ground. and obviously keep an eye on the water level periodically and for leaks to pop up.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-27-12 at 12:29 PM.
05-27-12, 02:42 PM
#11
Well car will not start now fuel spark and air connectors are all plugged in.... idk if it has to do with timing or if by chance a trigger sensor went bad or what it sputters and then doesnt catch... i get a bunch of smoke oit of the exhaust but nothing seems to be working
05-27-12, 06:09 PM
#13
Well got it started had to pull all the plugs dc the fp crank till there was no more mist used a vinyl tube to get oil back in to the rotar ( the old hold the soda in the straw with the thumb over the end of the straw trick) cleaned the plugs put everything back together again and started up with a lot of throttle persuasion now it wont stay running with out the throttle and sounds like its missing really bad and very rich..... is this a common i need new.injectors situation?
05-27-12, 06:28 PM
#14
could be but i usually don't see injectors fail in just a few months after pulling an engine that ran before unless one of the injectors caused the initial engine to blow.
stupid question but you got the map sensor line hooked up right?
how long have you run the engine for?
stupid question but you got the map sensor line hooked up right?
how long have you run the engine for?
05-27-12, 09:40 PM
#15
Yeah map sensor hooked up i found out early on what that does owning this car
infact sounds exactly like its not plugged in but its only about 4000 miles old.
The first start up i ran it off and on for about 25 min
today after i got it going again i had it running for another 25 off and on...
if its flooded in the morning im going to pull the injectors and have them gone through.
Now with a decent sized street port would idol be that choppy on a pfc tuned for stock ports?
I have a video that im going to upload tomorrow from my phone of the sound and high idol, it will go *** low as 1100 without stalling but my idol.screw isnt that long. I have a lot more power than i did before rebuild i even notice it without the turbo feeding the motor its just not as smooth
infact sounds exactly like its not plugged in but its only about 4000 miles old.
The first start up i ran it off and on for about 25 min
today after i got it going again i had it running for another 25 off and on...
if its flooded in the morning im going to pull the injectors and have them gone through.
Now with a decent sized street port would idol be that choppy on a pfc tuned for stock ports?
I have a video that im going to upload tomorrow from my phone of the sound and high idol, it will go *** low as 1100 without stalling but my idol.screw isnt that long. I have a lot more power than i did before rebuild i even notice it without the turbo feeding the motor its just not as smooth
Last edited by Athanon; 05-27-12 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Droidx2 typos
05-28-12, 09:44 AM
#17
The very first startup idled fairly low after warmup and i didnt have any issues restarting
it was the next day when i got back to the car that it was flooded and wouldnt start. If i remember correctly when rotary performance rebuilt the motor last year they just cleaned the injectors they didnt replace them
that means theres about 130k plus miles on these injectors, so i think im going to pull them and replace them mabe this will fix my problem
it was the next day when i got back to the car that it was flooded and wouldnt start. If i remember correctly when rotary performance rebuilt the motor last year they just cleaned the injectors they didnt replace them
that means theres about 130k plus miles on these injectors, so i think im going to pull them and replace them mabe this will fix my problem
05-28-12, 02:47 PM
#19
rotaryevolution.net
my number is there as well.
try running it a bit more and check for any codes. if nothing test the fuel pressure to see if somehow the pressure is too high causing the flooding issues. worst case send the injectors out to be serviced, any real injector shop will tell you if they are good or bad and need to be replaced.
my number is there as well.
The very first startup idled fairly low after warmup and i didnt have any issues restarting
it was the next day when i got back to the car that it was flooded and wouldnt start. If i remember correctly when rotary performance rebuilt the motor last year they just cleaned the injectors they didnt replace them
that means theres about 130k plus miles on these injectors, so i think im going to pull them and replace them mabe this will fix my problem
it was the next day when i got back to the car that it was flooded and wouldnt start. If i remember correctly when rotary performance rebuilt the motor last year they just cleaned the injectors they didnt replace them
that means theres about 130k plus miles on these injectors, so i think im going to pull them and replace them mabe this will fix my problem
try running it a bit more and check for any codes. if nothing test the fuel pressure to see if somehow the pressure is too high causing the flooding issues. worst case send the injectors out to be serviced, any real injector shop will tell you if they are good or bad and need to be replaced.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-28-12 at 02:50 PM.
05-28-12, 03:34 PM
#20
Well after sitting for the night it fired up i had to throw in a longer idle screw to keep i going to get it in the garage then while adjusting it down to abou 900rpm it peeterd out and flooded almost instantly. So i got a little upset and siad screw it pulled everything to find this and im not sure if the injectors them selves are bad but im sure that they are leaking
http://youtu.be/PXS3FwxC2dM
http://youtu.be/PXS3FwxC2dM
05-28-12, 04:26 PM
#21
while the cracked pintle caps are an issue they likely won't be causing a fuel leak and unfortunately probably aren't your problem.
have you tried starting it without the throttle body elbow on?
the fact that it needs a longer idle screw tells me that your engine is choking on something, like a rag in your intake ducting. don't ask me why i know to check for this... even an extremely rich mixture it shouldn't need that much throttle input to attempt to run, the OEM throttle screw is quite long, you're talking almost 20% throttle just to get this thing to idle.
edit: i see you did try it without the throttle body and it is obviously dumping a ton of fuel but could still be choking on a restriction even past the throttle body like a rag in the small port runners or tape on the engine ports that wasn't removed prior to assembly.
could also be an injector wire grounding out holding an injector wide open, disconnect the secondary injectors to see if that makes a difference. then you can alternate, shut off the engine and plug in the secondaries and unplug the primaries to see if it attempts to run on one or both rotors indicating the secondaries pushing fuel when not supposed to. only other thing i can think of is the map sensor, it is running as if the map sensor is unplugged and defaulted to 0"Hg which will cause it to run extremely rich. if you have a PFC get a reading of what your manifold vacuum is with the commander.
you can do a leakdown test on the injectors without sending them out also by reassembling the rails and plugging the injectors in but not bolting them to the block, ground the fuel pump test connector in the diagnostic box near the battery, turn the key on to prime the fuel pump and check to see if any are leaking.
have you tried starting it without the throttle body elbow on?
the fact that it needs a longer idle screw tells me that your engine is choking on something, like a rag in your intake ducting. don't ask me why i know to check for this... even an extremely rich mixture it shouldn't need that much throttle input to attempt to run, the OEM throttle screw is quite long, you're talking almost 20% throttle just to get this thing to idle.
edit: i see you did try it without the throttle body and it is obviously dumping a ton of fuel but could still be choking on a restriction even past the throttle body like a rag in the small port runners or tape on the engine ports that wasn't removed prior to assembly.
could also be an injector wire grounding out holding an injector wide open, disconnect the secondary injectors to see if that makes a difference. then you can alternate, shut off the engine and plug in the secondaries and unplug the primaries to see if it attempts to run on one or both rotors indicating the secondaries pushing fuel when not supposed to. only other thing i can think of is the map sensor, it is running as if the map sensor is unplugged and defaulted to 0"Hg which will cause it to run extremely rich. if you have a PFC get a reading of what your manifold vacuum is with the commander.
you can do a leakdown test on the injectors without sending them out also by reassembling the rails and plugging the injectors in but not bolting them to the block, ground the fuel pump test connector in the diagnostic box near the battery, turn the key on to prime the fuel pump and check to see if any are leaking.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-28-12 at 04:40 PM.
05-28-12, 06:09 PM
#22
ok well i will put it back together to see if there is any leakage.
Unfortunately i do not have a commander anymore, long story short it got smashed in my passenger side door, dont ask... i do wish i had it because it would tell me a lot that i dont know but the forking over 250+ for a new one or used one ide rather put that money towards data logic and a good wideband (on the to buy list)
i dont know if i siad this before but on first start up it sounded the same way only it idled at regular rpm and would stay running.
i did a blow out of the fuel line back through the feed line today to try and clear any crap that may have collected in the fuel filter from trying to run it with such low fuel and i have no idea on the condition of the fp sock. idk if this does any good but i was getting air all the way back through the tank and out of the filler neck so im sure there are no blockages there, if at all its just piece of mind.
one question about the little plastic injector mixers or what ever they are called are they essential for opperation? because they cracked durring removal for the porting and polishing of the irons. the portion of the iron were the injector flow hits was flattened out and polished really well and the same deflction angle was kept its just a half inch lower than the actual deflector sits.
Unfortunately i do not have a commander anymore, long story short it got smashed in my passenger side door, dont ask... i do wish i had it because it would tell me a lot that i dont know but the forking over 250+ for a new one or used one ide rather put that money towards data logic and a good wideband (on the to buy list)
i dont know if i siad this before but on first start up it sounded the same way only it idled at regular rpm and would stay running.
i did a blow out of the fuel line back through the feed line today to try and clear any crap that may have collected in the fuel filter from trying to run it with such low fuel and i have no idea on the condition of the fp sock. idk if this does any good but i was getting air all the way back through the tank and out of the filler neck so im sure there are no blockages there, if at all its just piece of mind.
one question about the little plastic injector mixers or what ever they are called are they essential for opperation? because they cracked durring removal for the porting and polishing of the irons. the portion of the iron were the injector flow hits was flattened out and polished really well and the same deflction angle was kept its just a half inch lower than the actual deflector sits.
05-28-12, 07:40 PM
#23
ok so i have the fuel rail hooked back up and have pressure back in the line no leakage ! i dont have any power running to them as of yet i was actually thinking of putting them into a big glass jar and running a cycle to see how they are flowing and if the leak after they spray or to see if one is getting ground open with out flooding over the engine again
05-28-12, 10:21 PM
#24
well now that i ruled out the injectors minus the obvious would a set of bad trigger sensors be a cuase of this problem since they ultimatley run the injectors through the ecu,
my trigger sensors are on their last leg as it stands and have been looking into a new set but wanted to rule out the other things first,
now that i have im almost sure of the trigger sensors being bad
my trigger sensors are on their last leg as it stands and have been looking into a new set but wanted to rule out the other things first,
now that i have im almost sure of the trigger sensors being bad