toddp31

What size fuel lines are you guys running? You running pressure/ return all the way from the fuel pump? I think that is the best way to go, but where did you get the lines and fittings? Thanks

c00lduke

I have all braided steel lines but I'm going -6 all the way there and -6 all the way back, many people have different set-ups. Some Have larger feed lines then return and all kind of setups. I get all my parts from a local shop but i know there are many shops on the net and threads about this.

~Luke

Resource

I have all -10 braided lines running from my pump to my rails and I have -8 braided lines returns.

lane_change

iTrader: (20)

I also run -10 Feed and -8 Return.

Fish

I will be running 2*JIC 6 to the engine, and 1*JIC 6 back to the swirl pot.

Dan

rxrotary2_7

-10 from sump to pump
-8 from pump to rails
-6 return

IMO using a -6 braided feed does not seem like the best choice as it is barely an *uggrade* ove the stock hard line...

mmonaco

So how much Hp can Feed -8 handle and -6 return. I want about 650rwhp with this keep my lines happy?
Thanks

mmonaco

what i am saying isn't -10 feed over kill!

toddp31

Thanks for all you info, but in need a place where I can order the line and fittings. I am in Japan an it is hard to find shops that sell small things along those lines, unless you speak the language. I want -10 pressure, -8 return line can some one help me out.

unvmyrx7

iTrader: (14)

www.summitracing.com

www.jegs.com

http://www.bakerprecision.com/adapinfo.htm

i bought all the fittings and hoses from summit

lane_change

iTrader: (20)

I bought all my **** from Jegs...the site is extrmely user freindly and has the best prices. I spent just over $1000 on the pump, filters, lines, and fittings.

3isacharm

well ****, the only thing i can think of is superautobacs, but then again i've never been to japan. i'd imagine you could find those things there and it would cost less than having an american company ship them to you.

sub-zero

Try using SS braided teflon lines. The fittings are way cheaper and so is the line. Only draw back is that it is not as flexable and the fittings are a bit larger, but for 1/3 the price.

LTProject

im assuming all of the above with large fuel lines also have large fuel rails? if not better add that into the price of your system. i bought some 1/2'' id rails (bulk) will be trying to weld these up this weekend. for the price of aftermarket its worth trying.

mmonaco

can you port the stock rails to handle the extra hp?

toddp31

Summit seems to have what I am looking for, -10 pressure and -8 return. Over here you have to special order almost everthing, they normally don't have special items. I have the rx7.com fuel rail with 1600, so I should be good in the fuel rail area. I just want to do it right, and have a clean looking intall. Thanks for all your help.

88fc3sw/HX83

YES! You can port the stock fuel rails, cheaper way to go!

mmonaco

Anyone have a write up on how to modify the stock fuel rail to take the extra fuel from upgraded lines? Thnaks

shawnk

I have done my fuel system twice and once on another FD and I have learned alot about it in the process. It is too late for me to start writing a long reply tonight, but if you havent already bought some stuff send me a pm and I will be glad to take some time to tell what I have learned. I'd have to say that my fuel system is the mod I am least happy with overall and were I to do it again I would change alot.

Shawn
www.3rdgenrx7.com

shawnk

Well I have a few pm's so rather than writing a couple different responses I thought I would try to put something together for everyone.

This is a story of a fuel system.....

I bought my second FD in april of last year. The previous owner had rescued my car from the junk yard (fire in the rear of the car). Put a factory reman into it, had the transmission rebuilt, put a brand new t04S kit on it and then had to leave the country. So I picked it up as a fixer-uper. I knew I had alot of work but the car had alot of possibilities.

Anyway to the meat of the story. My many searches on the forum and conversations with others I decided that the fuel system was a high priority. The consensus seemed that since my goal was about 375RWHP that a 1:1 fpr, high flow pump, 550/1300 injectors, 6AN stainless lines, earls/russel/etc fittings, in engine pressure gauge, and an in-line filter were in order. So I bought the pump and fpr from slava at rotormotorsports (as I did a bunch of my stuff when I was first starting on the project) and I am lucky to say that while it was like pulling teeth I did get everything I ordered from him (many others didnt I have heard).

The pump was $240 (toyota supra pump - not what I ordered but a pump at least and would do).

The fpr was $170 (he ended up sending me a paxton instead of the one I ordered-see a trend yet?)

The filter was about $80(yep you guessed it - another bait and switch).

I sent off both sets to rceng to be bored and cleaned/flow tested. $440

I bought a bbk liquid filled gauge from a local shop $55

Ordered about $140 worth of stuff from summit in hose and fitting (probably more than that but by now I have so many summit invoices laying around it makes me sick to look at them).

So after about $1100 bucks I am now ready to start ($1150 including the fire exstinguisher I recommend to anyone who starts screwing with their fuel system).

The first thing I do is re-route the lines in the rear by-passing the stock filter. I just run from the pump staight to the hard line that runs to the front of the car.
I discover is SS line is a pain to work with. I mean a huge pain! I decide I am going to run a single line up from the rear, to the filter to be mounted someplace in the engine bay, to the back of the primary rail, from the front of the primary to the front of the secondary, from the rear of the secondary to one side of the fpr (other side blocked) (mounted where the cruise unit normally is) and finally from the bottom of the fpr back to the return underneath the car and rerouting the return directly to the tank. I removed the vapor line, charcoal, solenoid, and anything else I could.

Now the tough parts were the stainless (of course), and tapping the fuel rails. After alot of trial and error I get these things going.

Things I learn along the way:

1) 6AN Stainless has the same or less ID that the stock lines have - wouldnt buy it again.

2) While the stainless jacket seems to be alot tougher it actually can be worse than regular fuel hose - the stainless part is very dangerous when rubbing up on other things. This lead to much paranoia about everything it runs close to.

3) You cant see much of the fuel system after it is done. Not that looks came into the equation for my project, it may for others and I would say unless you are making a show car I would not put my money here again.

4) The fittings you order to go from the fpr to the hose (10AN to 6AN) are actually too deep for the regulator. If you tighten them down they actually block all flow through the regulator. I had to dremel mine - and by the way I saw no one mention this before or since for that matter.

5) The fuel pressure should be about 30psi at idle with the vacuum hose connected. I had 3 different reputable mechanics who had varying opinions about many things all agree separately that this was the case. Alot of people talk about raising it but I think this is for people who are just trying to get by with what they have and should be avoided by good planning.

6) You have to double clamp stainless hose everywhere you use hose clamps on it.

7) You should use teflon tape only where NPT fittings meet. Nowhere else with earl type fittings.

8) Tapping your rails is very scary.

9) The clearences of everything make it very difficult to get it to fit - this caused many small orders from summit...make sure you see it done somewhere else first. Needless trailblazing probably cost me another $60 here.

Things I liked about this plan:

1) Got rid of the retarded stock filter setup.

2) Got rid of the dreaded pulsation dampener.

I got everything together and had it tuned at 2 places and then finally made the trip to KDR for a final tune.

After that my friends FD lost an apex seal and we did his engine. We did his fuel system a little differently when we put his back together. He wanted to use stainless because his engine was going to be as polished as he could make it. We decided to run the lines in parallel figuring that the 6AN per rail would be enough. So we split the lines after the filter and ran them back to fpr and used both sides on his. Everything else was the same. His goal for his ported engine was about 400 RWHP. As we were tuning it (now with datalogit and soon to be installed wide band o2) he was worried about his injector duties. We were running very conservatively and he was getting into the 90's. So he decide to get the rx7store secondary rail and go to 1600's. I helped him with the install and I have to say that the rail is good quality but a ridiculous design - what a pain. But the pricing was so that he could sell his rceng bored injectors and pick up the rail and injectors for about even trade. I agreed with him getting a little leeway as far as duty cycles go and money wise it worked but the rail was the big minus.

About this time I came out to the parking lot and noticed a strong fuel smell in my car. Popped the hood and noticed a pool of gas laying on top of my engine. One of my rail taps was not good enough it seems. Well I decide to go ahead and do the switch and get 1600's too. But I wasnt going to get that rail and began shopping. That is when I came upon the rails that keith (rxrotary2_7 ) sells. Both a primary and secondary. The way the oil metering injectors sit by the primary fuel rail have always made me unhappy. By switching to topfeed there the clearance was way better. So I started on a new plan.....

(I will continue this tomorrow because I type slow, am long winded, and started late)

I have a bunch of pics and more specific info on my current setup that I will put together...

ebb

With regard to #4 above, the fittings being too long. I have just installed an sx fpr and found the same thing. The correct fittings are not an to an unions, but an to o-ring boss unions. Mine is all -6 and summit carries the fittings to get from -6 flare to o-ring boss. The o-ring side has no flare as the seal for the fuel comes from the o-ring itself. The regulator came new with 3 o-rings, one for each port. The fitting from summit also came with an o-ring on each.

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...rt=o-ring+boss

rxrotary2_7

that is correct. same thing with using an aeromotive pump or filters.

shawnk

Ok...where was I....Oh yea.

So I decided to go with rxrotary2_7 rails and 720/1600's. These rails using topfeed fit alot better. The install was very easy for both rails compared to the rx7store secondary and the price was great. I am working on a how-to for this entire install and should have it up soon. For now here are a few pics of the system I am running. Keep in mind this is not exactly how I would do it today if I was starting over - I will be getting to that part soon (hopefully).

Entire In Engine Part of system before install (this is everything that you need in the engine bay)

That pic was taken before final installation and I had to make a changed on the front fitting on the primary rail for clearance by the front secondary injector. I crossed out the part that I had to change in red.

Here is the primary with the right fitting

And here are both rails installed but fuel sys not complete

I went ahead and bought a greddy fuel pressure gauge.

So I will try to put up the part numbers for all the stuff in the pic of the complete system. I think this setup is fine for those looking for about 400RWHP and want to use SS hose.

But if I were to do all over again this is what I'd do (keep in mind I havent done it this way so anyone who has input please let me know-remember how my trailblazing cost me a bunch of money and time above right?) :

I would do 8 AN Aeroquip Socketless hose. I am guessing it would take a bunch (like 35' since I would be removing the hardlines that run from rear to front and using that same protected channel for the new lines).

Instead of spending $240 on a high flow pump I would keep the stock pump and get another off of the forum(guessing I could get one for $25) and then run parallel from the tank all the way to front - one pump per rail. Now the biggest flaw I saw when I first read about people doing this was 2 pumps mean twice the chance of pump failure and either one of them failing could kill an engine. But if somewhere in the rear after the lines come out of the tank you put in a fuel distribution block with 4 8AN nipples. That way should either pump fail the other pump could still feed both. I am still not sure if this would save the engine but hopefully it would and with a guage it could be noticed in time. The fitting that would have to be bought are the four for the rails (definitely rxrotary2_7 rails with 720/1600's) 3/8 NPT to 8AN nipples - a 45, 90, and 2-180 degree (the kind you use hose clamps on) and then 2 8AN nipple 90 degree to 10 AN o-ring boss union (thanks ebb and rxrotary2_7) and one straight 6AN or 8 AN (can't remember what the bottom of the fuel pressure regulator is) to 8 AN nipple. Oh and I think I would do two 8 AN in-line filters and try to find the nipple fittings for them also (4 straight ones). Finally I would run a 8AN return. Now for the guys that are going for huge power like mmonoco I would do the same except using 2 high flow pumps and of course something different with rail/injectors. One other thing is I dont know how high this type of line is rated but even if someone were to run 30PSI boost that would only mean 75PSI fuel pressure and for some reason I think that Aeroquip can take that kind of pressure.

I hope that I get some feedback on this plan because it is likely I will pull my fuel system again and do this new plan in the near future.

Shawn

black99

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shawnk
[B]

I am working on a how-to for this entire install and should have it up soon.
[B]


Keep us posted if you do a complete how-to, but actually what you posted was some damn good info and just the same as a how-to. Also the pics were very helpful as well, I liked seeing how you ran your return lines. The info is mucho appreciated.

Eggie

Aeroquip socketless is rated for 250psi with a minimum burst of 1000. Should be fine for anything except brakes or power steering.