ECU recomendations
10-09-02, 12:55 AM
#1
ECU recomendations
So ... here's the famous question that I've noticed has been asked a thousand times:
What ECU to use in my 94 Rx7?
I've rebuilt two piston engines ... carbureted at that. So I have a bit more know how than the average Joe about engines ... but minimal about rotaries. Also, I work with computers on a regular basis. I.E. I have no problem using one to program an ECU.
I would like to pass smog in CA … assuming that I can find a station that will overlook a downpipe and just sniff the exhaust.
Anyone had experience with these things and TriPoint? How did it work out? I'm thinking of doing the initial install and them letting them tweak the settings after they rebuild my motor. Note that my motor already needs the (o-ring problem) rebuild ... I figure I might as well make any mistakes on it now. Besides, I have to stand in line for two months before TriPoint can do my rebuild … might as well have something besides gauge installation to look forward to!
I plan on limiting myself to:
1- Downpipe
2 - Stock airbox modifications (ones that aren’t easily seen)
3 – Intercooler (drop in stock replacement)
4 – aluminum flywheel
5 – high flow cat and exhaust (will have to see what the car sounds like with everything else first)
#1, 2 (and maybe 4) will go in with the motor rebuild. 3, 5, (and 4 if the clutch has a lot of life left) will come later. Don’t worry I plan on doing all the usual reliability upgrades with the motor rebuild.
I've been reading and searching and reading and searching. The easy way out seems to be the M2, than I saw the E-manage, but I wouldn't mind the display on the Power FC. I could easily spend the cost of the FC on the M2 and a re-program (down the line) for my secondary mods. There are so many options out there … what do you all think?
(way dazed by all of the choices)
What ECU to use in my 94 Rx7?
I've rebuilt two piston engines ... carbureted at that. So I have a bit more know how than the average Joe about engines ... but minimal about rotaries. Also, I work with computers on a regular basis. I.E. I have no problem using one to program an ECU.
I would like to pass smog in CA … assuming that I can find a station that will overlook a downpipe and just sniff the exhaust.
Anyone had experience with these things and TriPoint? How did it work out? I'm thinking of doing the initial install and them letting them tweak the settings after they rebuild my motor. Note that my motor already needs the (o-ring problem) rebuild ... I figure I might as well make any mistakes on it now. Besides, I have to stand in line for two months before TriPoint can do my rebuild … might as well have something besides gauge installation to look forward to!
I plan on limiting myself to:
1- Downpipe
2 - Stock airbox modifications (ones that aren’t easily seen)
3 – Intercooler (drop in stock replacement)
4 – aluminum flywheel
5 – high flow cat and exhaust (will have to see what the car sounds like with everything else first)
#1, 2 (and maybe 4) will go in with the motor rebuild. 3, 5, (and 4 if the clutch has a lot of life left) will come later. Don’t worry I plan on doing all the usual reliability upgrades with the motor rebuild.
I've been reading and searching and reading and searching. The easy way out seems to be the M2, than I saw the E-manage, but I wouldn't mind the display on the Power FC. I could easily spend the cost of the FC on the M2 and a re-program (down the line) for my secondary mods. There are so many options out there … what do you all think?
(way dazed by all of the choices)
10-09-02, 01:09 AM
#2
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if i were you I would buy the stage#3 or #4 upgrade from the store. www.rx7store.net rebiulding a piston engine has nothing to do with modifying a fd.(just to worn you, you wont come into very many common thing)
tunning or "tweak" a ecu is hard. you will need a person that has tunned a rx7 before with dyno and wide band o2. Sence you going with light mods, i dont think you will need a power fc. pettit unlimited or some kinda piggy back system would better i think, Im not sure though.. remember once you remove the main cat you will have to have a ecu of some sort. if you dont you will lean out and blow the engine.
tunning or "tweak" a ecu is hard. you will need a person that has tunned a rx7 before with dyno and wide band o2. Sence you going with light mods, i dont think you will need a power fc. pettit unlimited or some kinda piggy back system would better i think, Im not sure though.. remember once you remove the main cat you will have to have a ecu of some sort. if you dont you will lean out and blow the engine.
10-09-02, 06:32 AM
#3
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i say haltech.
ask gmonson, i believe gordon had a map for his car just for "passing emissions" if i am not mistaken.
i do not have to worry about emissions, so i am not really the person to ask.
ask gmonson, i believe gordon had a map for his car just for "passing emissions" if i am not mistaken.
i do not have to worry about emissions, so i am not really the person to ask.
10-09-02, 09:09 AM
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In Cali, you will need to find a shop that will also overlook the fact that you have the ECU. My friend who has a PFC passed everything but the visual, only cause his check engine light did not turn on when they turned the key (I think, I dont remember exactly, but that can be rigged to come on). It does not look like you are going to go that far into modifying your car, maybe the M2 will do you just fine, but I have no personal experience with them passing smog.
10-09-02, 10:09 AM
#6
Cali inspections
Hadn't thought about the check engine light thing. Anyone care to comment about temporary reconection of the stock ECU? I'm guessing that as long as i don't drive at WOT that day, all will be fine. Old ECU in, pass smog, new ECU back in. No?
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10-09-02, 10:59 AM
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Re: Cali inspections
Originally posted by James Paventi
Hadn't thought about the check engine light thing. Anyone care to comment about temporary reconection of the stock ECU? I'm guessing that as long as i don't drive at WOT that day, all will be fine. Old ECU in, pass smog, new ECU back in. No?
Hadn't thought about the check engine light thing. Anyone care to comment about temporary reconection of the stock ECU? I'm guessing that as long as i don't drive at WOT that day, all will be fine. Old ECU in, pass smog, new ECU back in. No?
They should be smogging the vehicle without boosting so plugging the stock ecu back in is fine if you need to.
10-09-02, 11:11 AM
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Oh you are in Chatsworth... Hmm if you have need to pass smog and have no way of possibly doing it, PM me and I might be able to lead you to a shop that will overlook most things.
I've gotten some work done at Tripoint out of neccesity. Not that they are bad - they are just very pricey, but they were the only ones that would be able to do the work w/in my time frame. Tripoint, from last I heard, wont work with the PFC. If Tripoint REALLY is your #1 choice for all things Rx7, talk to Mark and ask him which ECUs he likes to tune, and has plenty of experience with then go from there.
I've gotten some work done at Tripoint out of neccesity. Not that they are bad - they are just very pricey, but they were the only ones that would be able to do the work w/in my time frame. Tripoint, from last I heard, wont work with the PFC. If Tripoint REALLY is your #1 choice for all things Rx7, talk to Mark and ask him which ECUs he likes to tune, and has plenty of experience with then go from there.
10-09-02, 11:44 AM
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I just purchased the pettit ecu with a 14 lb chip in it. I am exteremly happy and it will suffice with all the bolt ons. If you dont want to go to crazy with a Haltech or even a PFC, i cant comment about M2, but i hear they are very conservatively tuned. I am very content with my Pettit ecu. It should be great with a full exhaust, and intercooler. You have more control and u can monitor more things with a PFC though. Also u can run larger injectors with a PFC where u cant with upgraded ecu's.
just my 2 cents...Good luck
just my 2 cents...Good luck
10-09-02, 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by SERIES7
I think they'd be familiar with Motech ecu's.
I have known a couple of folks who had Haltechs but Tripoint I heard is very conservative with their tuning. You might have to advance the timing some when you get it back.
I think they'd be familiar with Motech ecu's.
I have known a couple of folks who had Haltechs but Tripoint I heard is very conservative with their tuning. You might have to advance the timing some when you get it back.
10-10-02, 01:01 AM
#13
I think that I have a better idea now
Hello all,
I've been receiving so many PMs about this it's becoming ridiculous. Here is one that I think is worth passing on.
Anyone who read my first post might have guessed that I like to have some ability to check / modify things. I.E. the M2, Pettit, and the like are just to rigid for me.
The Power FC, Haltec or one of the other extreme computers is just too much. I really would like to ability to modify EVERY parameter (like fan trip points), however the total package is more than I will enjoy setting up. The telltale sign here was that swapping the computer (if I haven't permanently rewired everything) for a bi-annual smog inspection in CA seemed like a pain to me. If this was bugging me now, I couldn't imagine myself pouring over manuals to set up what sounds like absolutely everything.
So, I seem to have settled on the PFS PMS. I get to keep my check engine light, change stock parameters just enough to do the mods that I listed earlier, and I can monitor most of the engine vitals. Cool!
Don't worry, I downloaded the manual and read the entire thing to get a feel for what I'm getting into. It all sounds reasonable to me. The big issue now is TriPoint. I have to ask Mark if he is willing to deal with it.
If there are some passionate thoughts
out there about PFS' PMC, let er rip! I'm close to buying this thing and don’t' want to have any regrets. Any comments are ever so welcome.
I've been receiving so many PMs about this it's becoming ridiculous. Here is one that I think is worth passing on.
James, the least hassle approach is to buy the PFS PMS piggyback or the Pettit unlimited. All of the many systems controlled by your stock ECU remain intact & you will find that all of the stand-alone replacement ECUs, except the non-programable Pettit, are a lot of work to get everything functioning again.
Second, if you are staying with the stock sequential turbos, there is not a reason in the world to consider a haltec or motec or a tec3. These things are for single turbo conversions with gobs of dyno time to get em right, & ***** to the wall modifications. Great systems but you are not going that far.
The PFS has 3 settings & comes preprogramed for essentially stock boost, 11-12 and 14-15 for race gas. I have never failed Maryland emissions & they are pretty damn strict with a dyno test. And you can make it cleaner still by tailoring one of the programs only to pass emissions, something you can't do with the Pettit unlimited.
You will hear a lot about newer, better, faster etc. All true but to what end? The PFS works. EFI, the maker, is highly regarded. You can pass emissions & run at the track with race gas. And they are cheap.
Second, if you are staying with the stock sequential turbos, there is not a reason in the world to consider a haltec or motec or a tec3. These things are for single turbo conversions with gobs of dyno time to get em right, & ***** to the wall modifications. Great systems but you are not going that far.
The PFS has 3 settings & comes preprogramed for essentially stock boost, 11-12 and 14-15 for race gas. I have never failed Maryland emissions & they are pretty damn strict with a dyno test. And you can make it cleaner still by tailoring one of the programs only to pass emissions, something you can't do with the Pettit unlimited.
You will hear a lot about newer, better, faster etc. All true but to what end? The PFS works. EFI, the maker, is highly regarded. You can pass emissions & run at the track with race gas. And they are cheap.
Anyone who read my first post might have guessed that I like to have some ability to check / modify things. I.E. the M2, Pettit, and the like are just to rigid for me.
The Power FC, Haltec or one of the other extreme computers is just too much. I really would like to ability to modify EVERY parameter (like fan trip points), however the total package is more than I will enjoy setting up. The telltale sign here was that swapping the computer (if I haven't permanently rewired everything) for a bi-annual smog inspection in CA seemed like a pain to me. If this was bugging me now, I couldn't imagine myself pouring over manuals to set up what sounds like absolutely everything.
So, I seem to have settled on the PFS PMS. I get to keep my check engine light, change stock parameters just enough to do the mods that I listed earlier, and I can monitor most of the engine vitals. Cool!
Don't worry, I downloaded the manual and read the entire thing to get a feel for what I'm getting into. It all sounds reasonable to me. The big issue now is TriPoint. I have to ask Mark if he is willing to deal with it.
If there are some passionate thoughts
out there about PFS' PMC, let er rip! I'm close to buying this thing and don’t' want to have any regrets. Any comments are ever so welcome.
10-10-02, 02:33 PM
#14
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The Power FC really isn't much harder to use than the PMS, if at all.
The obvious difference between the two is if you have a drivability problem or some other problem with your stock ECU, the PMS can't "correct" it. The Power FC doesn't usually have the drivability problems of the stock ECU (or stock ECU + PMS). The good things about the PMS is having 3 different programs, they are very inexpensive used, and they won't jack with the A/C or smog stuff when that is a concern.
Wade
The obvious difference between the two is if you have a drivability problem or some other problem with your stock ECU, the PMS can't "correct" it. The Power FC doesn't usually have the drivability problems of the stock ECU (or stock ECU + PMS). The good things about the PMS is having 3 different programs, they are very inexpensive used, and they won't jack with the A/C or smog stuff when that is a concern.
Wade
10-10-02, 03:07 PM
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One thing to consider about the PMS unit is that it STILL needs to be tuned, just like a PFC. It is an old design and has very limited resolution compared to a "modern" stand-alone ecu.
A lot of people spend considerable effort fine-tuning the PFC but a lot of people also just plug it in and drive the car. Most of tuning issues you have read about with the PFC occur when people are running unusual mods (like upgraded twins). If you are just running bolt-ons, you can just use the base map with some fuel tuning and probably be very happy. You will have to do the fuel tuning with the PMS unit too, so I see no advantage to that unit.
Not to mention the added capabilities of the datalogit for the PFC.
A lot of people spend considerable effort fine-tuning the PFC but a lot of people also just plug it in and drive the car. Most of tuning issues you have read about with the PFC occur when people are running unusual mods (like upgraded twins). If you are just running bolt-ons, you can just use the base map with some fuel tuning and probably be very happy. You will have to do the fuel tuning with the PMS unit too, so I see no advantage to that unit.
Not to mention the added capabilities of the datalogit for the PFC.
10-10-02, 04:34 PM
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PFC...all the way!
can't go wrong with it...
instead of almost there...you are there in terms of an ECU...
besides...it is very user friendly and if I can deal with it, you can...my experience in engines pales in comparison to your own...you will be much happier once you get the PFC...I have heard little to no bad things about it, as opposed to other ECU's...
trust me, from the moment you start your car with it installed, you will wonder why you thought of any other route...it seems to smooth everything out and on top of that you will get almost unlimited flexibility with it (in case you want to add a little more zest!) or it will be content with just light modifications...either way you will be happy...
Garrett
can't go wrong with it...
instead of almost there...you are there in terms of an ECU...
besides...it is very user friendly and if I can deal with it, you can...my experience in engines pales in comparison to your own...you will be much happier once you get the PFC...I have heard little to no bad things about it, as opposed to other ECU's...
trust me, from the moment you start your car with it installed, you will wonder why you thought of any other route...it seems to smooth everything out and on top of that you will get almost unlimited flexibility with it (in case you want to add a little more zest!) or it will be content with just light modifications...either way you will be happy...
Garrett
10-11-02, 09:36 PM
#17
gona get the PFS PMC
It took a call to two friends, reading threw all of your posts (THANKS EVERYONE!) again, several friendly PM's, lots of instruction manual downloading (and reading), and TriPoint saying that they'll run with it.
Wish me luck!
Oh, and TriPoint will probably be able to get to my engine toward the end of the month. What a relief … it’s getting old burping the exhaust gas out of the cooling system. Now I just need to purchase and install the ECU, a boost gauge, and mod the temp gauge. This should be fun ... it's been 10 years since I've worked on cars. I miss it!
Wish me luck!
Oh, and TriPoint will probably be able to get to my engine toward the end of the month. What a relief … it’s getting old burping the exhaust gas out of the cooling system. Now I just need to purchase and install the ECU, a boost gauge, and mod the temp gauge. This should be fun ... it's been 10 years since I've worked on cars. I miss it!
11-15-02, 12:51 AM
#18
love my PMC
I've had my PFS PMC installed for about a month now and love it.
My favorite part is being able to select from 1 of three different data sets. I've only programmed two so far. Once for 8PSI or boost and another for 10PSI. When I'm feeling gutsy and have done some more homework, the third is going to be set for ... you guessed it 12PSI.
The Datalogic software makes it soooooper easy to set things up followed my on the fly tweaking while running the car.
All in all, I'm really happy. Easy installation, about 30 minutes. The learning curve was only about two hours for both software and control pad. I used the vent learn on my first test run to set 8 and 10 PSI. It worked first time!
Oh, there's one more great thing! I found a used unit, control pad, and software for $600 shipped. Absolutely fantastic!!!
Thanks again everyone, lots of great advice from all of you.
PS SERIES7, I haven't forgotten about your offer ... I may have to take you up on it one day.
My favorite part is being able to select from 1 of three different data sets. I've only programmed two so far. Once for 8PSI or boost and another for 10PSI. When I'm feeling gutsy and have done some more homework, the third is going to be set for ... you guessed it 12PSI.
The Datalogic software makes it soooooper easy to set things up followed my on the fly tweaking while running the car.
All in all, I'm really happy. Easy installation, about 30 minutes. The learning curve was only about two hours for both software and control pad. I used the vent learn on my first test run to set 8 and 10 PSI. It worked first time!
Oh, there's one more great thing! I found a used unit, control pad, and software for $600 shipped. Absolutely fantastic!!!
Thanks again everyone, lots of great advice from all of you.
PS SERIES7, I haven't forgotten about your offer ... I may have to take you up on it one day.
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