FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

I'm starting my TII swap into my 86 GX
its an S5 TII...... I've been researching about it for th last couple months
BEFORE ALL YOU GUYS JUST GO ON ABOUT STAYIN IN THE SAME SERIES YOU GUYS CAN STAY IN YOUR OWN THREADS AND OUTTA MINE!!!!
when i was searching for this 95% of what i found was peole just sayin stay in your own series its easier....i want this thread to have some useful information for other people that want to do this swap
Like really look at the work they do on wiring when they swap around some of the handa engine (because you handa them there ***) a K20 swap for example
but here its like don't put that engine in you have to get your hands alittle dirty

I'm goin to be keepin track of what i do along the way and I'm open to al POSITIVE suggestions

i got a good deal on a jdm 13bt built and tuned by Tom's Racing
Like i said i've been researching this for a while now and I am quite aware of the obstacles you come across when swapping an S5 into an S4....but honestly i have a mx-3 with a direct bolt in KLZE that runs 14.18 with a cone filter and a UDP
I'm looking for more of a challenge lol get more involved in it
It can be done and I WILL SLAP ANYONE WHO SAIS ITS NOT WORTH IT TO SWAP IN THIS ENGINE!lol

This is what i have so far...the parts come in slowly but steadily...(g/f got me on a budget) this is what i have so far ...it all came together as a package with the engine

stuff i have:

complete S5 engine with 2 injectors added to the top of intake manifold with all sensors
Engine wire harness
Main wire harness with the fuse boxes
jdm Greddy powdercoated intercooler piping with 2 external fuel injectors
Big *** greddy type R BOV
S5 MAF with Apexi airfilter
3' Downpipe
2 coil packs
drive shaft stub
28x7x3 FMIC
N374 ECU Tuned by Tom's Racing
the stuff I know I need:
Custom Driveshaft- (I lucked out my 86 has the fat driveshaft on it theres a place i here that will weld the T2 cap with the u joints and stuff on the n/a driveshaft and balance it for $100

tranny mount bracket-(junkyard special)

LSD (i'm goin to use a torsen style 1.5 way for the N/A diff)

AEM Wideband O2 set up

Apexi S-AFC(not sure how rich it ill be with those 4 extra injectors)

Walbro 255lph fuel pump

S5 n/a gauge cluster

Boost guage

S5 dash board (junkyard special) i'm jut goin to swap the electronics outta it

TII throttle cables
IF anyone who's done this swap see's anything i missedor has any tips let me know.... thanks!!!

spot_skater

An FSM. Haynes book. And patience. I am almost done with mine, but I went with a Haltech instead of a stock ECU.

PM me if you want to talk about it when you start, I might be able to help you out if you get stuck.

Don't forget you're going to need to re-wire the alternator as well. The wiring for it in an S4 NA is in with the engine/main harness.

James

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

www.rotaryresurrection.com Look in the tech section. It should have all of the info you need.

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

rotary ressurection was sayin to switch over the sensors and use the s4 junk.....
that not the direction i'm goin

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

heres the things i do know.

get a t2 tranny. i assume you have an s5 t2 tranny? if not, get an s4 t2 tranny. wont need to switch out the mounts and x member.

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

it came with the s5 tranny, sweet *** clutch fom what i can see and it has a short shifter in it

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

does it come with the mounts?

also, if you dont wanna fiddle with throtle cables, use your na TB and you can use your na throtle cable. it will hit the oil filter, but who wants a throtle cable to completly swoop around the front of the engine?

BLK FC3S

wow, the title of the thread scared me. your not going from s5 tii to s4 n/a, you need to change the title before someone has a heart attack.

LokiRx7.1

iTrader: (1)

^ +1 I thought you were dreading swapping your S5 TII engine for an S4 N/A engine, I wanted to smack you senseless for a minute...

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

lol no ....i knew what i meant hahahaha t won't let me edit
i Meant S5 TII engine INTO a S4 n/a body
Me fail english thats unpossible

NOPR

why do you need to change tranny mounts? did your TII tranny not come with a mount? the part where it attaches to the body/chassis is identical between series and between N/A and TII. I've done this S4 n/a to S5 TII stuff. i used a standalone.

doing it with the stock ecu is honestly a giant waste of time. most of the S5 TII stuff (sensors, harness, AFM, ECU, etc.) you can sell off and end up paying not that much for a standalone. you will save yourself a huge headache and a TON of time plus you'll gain a lot of headroom for the future.

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

the ecu is tuned for the st up....for this year thats al i can afford to use

my tranny didn't come with any mounts or brackets ......so i can use the S4 n/a tranny mounts and bracket? i'm hopin can...but i read they are a different style

NOPR

oh, nevermind. you need an S5 mount. they are different where they attach to the tranny, but the same where they attach to the body of the car. i thought maybe you had it backwards.

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

so can just get the S5 mounts (2 i assume) and thats good to go?

i plan on starting the end of the month
i'm trying to ave as little surpises as possible

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

My rx-7 project has officially started!!!

i'm doing the body work, brake lines, and fuel lines this week
and tips or pointers on doin the 2nd gen brake lines are welcome!


Next Week:
I want to atleast get my engine set in the car so i can start pecking away at it
I figure if i can get the motor bolted in, the clutch slave bled so i can play with my new shifter that should keep me happy while i get everything else goin

i'll post some pctures of my progress when i'm done

sscguy

I'm in the process of attempting something sort of similar: JDM S5 Tii into a S4 Tii. And of course, only TODAY, when I start disassembling the motors to swap parts, do I realize how different they are. The engine and car have been sitting for ~ a year, and I had no idea. *Sigh*

So, a question for anyone who knows: If I get a US S5 engine wiring harness and S5 ECU, will that make things easier? Or do I really just need to swap over everything? I won't be keeping this car, so a standalone or anything like that is pointless.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I'll make a deal with you. I will not post anything negative about this swap, *if* you can give me a *good* reason to do this swap.

Hopefully you won't get all pussyhurt that I am posting this in your thread, if you do that means that your position is so weak that it cannot withstand any debate or questioning.

Let's stand back and look at the big picture, assuming you already have a series 4 chassis.

1) the series 4 engine is basicaly a plug and play. The series 5 is not.

2) the series 5 engine does make about 15 more hp in stock form. This 15hp was mainly attributed to the extra 2psi of boost being run on the s5...so you could say that a series 4 engine being run at 8psi would be pretty much identical. Taking this a step further, we can reason that the various small changes between series do not change power levels.

3) in general, the series 4 turbo parts are actually cheaper than the s5, and easier to get. Not necessarily the engines themselves, but external stuff like wiring harnesses, computers, boost sensors, etc.

4) rx7s have ENOUGH electrical problems when they are bone stock. I personally have no desire to multiply those problems by repinning and splicing wires all over the place. When it is all said and done, and things don't work right, you will have NO CLUE where to look to fix them. Hell, most owners have no clue where to look for issues on a STOCK car. But, you did say you liked a challenge.

5) this sort of determination seems to rapidly wear off when you actually get underneath the dash and see what you're up against, and I used to get brought a LOT of these started/abandoned/failed projects and asked to pick up the slack and figure it out because the owner was at their wits end and had no desire to fool with it any more.

6) So explain to me again why this is worthwhile, given the above FACTS. It's almost as if you're saying "no, I have no desire to do it the normal way, I am looking to make the job as hard as possible for no real gains and no reason other than to say that I like the challenge". Doesnt sound all that bright, does it?

7) If I were to do this swap with all s5 externals intact, I would get ALL the wiring from a series 5 car. Every wire from the dash forward, and swap it in to the s4 chassis. Then it will all plug in. Doesnt have to be a turbo car either; in fact, you can use ALL the wiring from an NA car, including the engnie harness, and it will work just fine. I'm running an NA engine harness on my s5 turbo car right now.

8) The other way I would do this swap is to simply run the s5 engine with s4 electricals (tps/throttlebody/ecu/wiring/etc.).

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Also, here is good information as to the wiring differences:

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2n..._s5_diffs.html

joeylyrech

iTrader: (11)

4 extra injectors,what kind of turbo came with that motor?(hybrid)looks like some work was done to this setup(maybe porting) good deal,speaking about the harness im sugesting to do what kevin said,try to find the S5 body,chasis harness, swap everything and PNP,I understand what are you saying about using the Ecu cause aparently its tuned for the mods so its better to try to use that stuff ,keep posting your progress on the swap

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

Are you really that lazy to think switching the main harness is not worth while


lets look at the pro's and cons

S4 TII
easier to put in almost plug&play
bone stock 180hp or so
older technology and engine
Lower compression ratio
(higher C/R engines will make more hp per lbs of boost)

S5 TII
switch out harness and some electrical
Garrett turbo a/r 60
greddy powdercoated IC piping
apexi airfilter with MAF
3" downpipe
Short throw shifter with razoshift ****
Beefy clutch
4 extra fuel injectors
RARE ECU & Engine tuned by Tom's Racing





maybe for you it seems big and complicated to swich around some electrical to get your desired engine in a car....keep livin in your perfect little world where everything just dops in place hassle free and if it doesn't then its not worth doing
Do you really think this is the only car that needs a harness to be swapped along with the motor

I guess i'm just stubborn

i'm goin to do this with the least bit of splicing as posible.....if i can switch something for an S5 Part i will or probably have it already....alot of stuff came with that engine
i haven't taken the tranny off to loo at the clutch but there is bolts all around the center of the pressure plate where th clutch fingers should be so it looks like a pretty beefy clutch too
all that stuff for $500 more than i would have paid for a stock S4 TII
for all that how can you say that the little bit of extra work isn't goin to be worth it

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Problem with tuned ECU's is:

a) any changes......any (meaning engine compression changes even!) will risk the setup.

b) no idea what the "tune" consists of or how good it actually is...

c) Someone has opened it up and added/changed/modified a now 20 y/o piece of electronics. There's no telling whether the thing has bubble gum holding it in the case or not (yes, you can open it, but thats not the point I'm illustrating)

d) Unless you have the EXACT setup the vehicle was running, meaning took it out of the vehicle personally yourself and witnessed every odd and end that they ran the engine with (meaning how many pounds of boost, what the rest of the exhuast consisted of etc.) then you run a large risk of turning that engine into a coffe table.

And just another point.....all of the pros you list are parts that can be taken off that engine and ran on any engine aside from the "tuned" ECU of course. So, essentially, you're going to all the extra hassle for nothing anyways since the parts you want could simply be bolted up to an S4 keg with S4 electronics... But its your project.

I'd just like to see a standalone on there so you don't blow the thing up

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

i'm putting a WBO2 on it and an Apexi S-AFC
there won't that big of a change in the tune those can't fix
if anything it will run rich as hell with the extra fuel injectors.....
i bought this engine for something to build on to
i'm goin to drop it in and it'll be running atleast 275-300whp

and honestly you're just wearing your keyboards out goin on about "don't get an S5 engine you have to change the main harness and some eletronics "

over the winter i'm gonna get a Standaolne.....somethin in the Tec series
probably a Microtec cuz i think thats what Aaron Cake uses and he conveniantly lives 20 mins or so away

i just wanna get the set up running this summer

HAILERS

So? Get the series four wiring diagrams and the series five wiring diagrams and start splicing and dicing wires together so the series five ECU will work with the series four Front harness.

monkhommey

dont let people get you down. they are all pussies! i bought a s4 tII parts car that had a blown s5 tII block.. i did get to ride in it prior to it blowing up and it pulled much harder than any s4 car that i or a friend of mine has ever been in.. its kinda unrealated but hey.. just do it. or even better spend $250 bucks and buy a freakin megasquirt and screw the stock ecu. voila~ no need for stupid old wiring harness BS.

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=290108830721


theres the add for my engine
i'v ought motors off them b4 they are good