Ok, well after tearing apart 3 cas’s and 2 dizzy’s I think I have come up with something interesting. Direct fire leading and trailing with a waste on the leading plugs (for the fans of waste spark), an adjustable trailing split from 0 - max desired degrees and mechanical timing. Oh and it all fits somewhat nicely in a cas just need a custom cap made. Or if you wanted to you could wire up the coils up in a way to fire leading and trailing simultaneously twice during the same power cycle at an adjustable split. So 4 direct fired split able sparks.

 

good work! have you tested it yet? id like to hear the end product and how it performs!

there was a guy on that was disinging something like that when i 1st joined the forum he was selling the disign 90% finished i think. i wonder if any one else remembers what im talking about?

 

Neat.

 

Unfortunatly it will be going in a boat and I wont be able to give it a good street perfomance test. But if anyone is in the tucson area and would like to give it a shot be my guest. I will however be testing it on a test benched engine and will post my idle and starting results. The goal is to beef up the low end.

 

Looks interesting. I don't know enough about the internals of the dizzy to really understand it at the moment though. I can't really tell if you've covered this, but one thing to make sure of is that you don't experience wasted spark on the trailing. This can be detrimental to the engine.

I used to live in Tucson about 25 yrs ago. Man I miss the warm weather, Sabino canyon, camping in the Rincons, and about a million other things.

 

Trailing wasted spark will not happen with this, Basically you have 4 pickups and a 2 tooth wheel if you think of the pickups in clock positions you get 1 pickup at 12, 3, 6 and 9. Each pickup wired into a j109 then to coil. using 12 o'clock pickup as leading front and 6 for trailing front, 3 for leading rear and 9 for trailing rear. the two tooth wheel has opposing teeth allowing it to fire only 2 sensors at a time one directly across from the next. The 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock are mounted to the leading adjustable timing plate and the 6 and 9 o'clock to the trailing. When spaced at an equal 45 degrees from each other you get leading and training firing at the same time with no split with their own dedicated coils. the leading pickups and trailing pickups are mounter on plates that move to the left and right or each other for vacuum advance purposes that are no longer an option. Utilizing these plates you can advance - retard the trailing pickups allowing you to experiment with leading timing split. I'm going to hook up 2 j109s to each pick up and run 12 o'clock firing leading and trailing front at the same time then run 6 o'clocks signals to the same coils at a 10 degree split and the same with 3 and 9 o'clock in the rear just to see if it will work. Any thoughts?

 

A few things. Let me try to understand your seup a bit better. It looks like you have 4 pickups (2 leading, 2 trailing). On the "teeth" it looks like you have two on one wheel and 1? on the other. Can't tell for sure on the pic if the 2nd wheel has just 1 or 2 lobes.

Since leading of both rotors can be fired together, you are best off removing one of the leading pickups as it isn't really needed.

Another thing to remember is that the dizzy spins half the rate of the engine. That is why there are 4 teeth on the stock diizzy (90* dizzy = 180* engine). This is what I would do:

- for leading use 1 pickup with 4 teeth. You can fire a 2nd gen coil or two 1st gen coils for a direct fire setup on the leading

- for trailing, you need 2 pickups, 2 teeth Their pickups should be spaced at 90*. One pickup for T1 and the other for T2. The dizzy will just be installed to time T1 correctly (firing just after L1).

That should do it. It looks like you have the basics worked out, you just need to fine tune a little bit I think. Good luck on the project.

 

This setup only has one wheel, with 2 teeth opposing.

 

I see. That will cause problems as 6 and 12 fire together and 3 and 9 fire together with 180* engine rotation between the 6-12 and the 3-9. This setup would work with a 0 split setup (6 and 12 connect to L1 and T1, 3 and 9 connect to L2 and T2). This way both rotor 1 plugs fire together and both rotor 2 plugs fire together. If you have it setup to move the T1/T2 pickup, then you would have the ability to have a split.

If you have the mechanical advance, you will want to look at the advance curves to make sure the trailing doesn't fire before leading at high RPM. I have the advance curves somewhere if you need them. I think the leading advances more than trailing (so the problem shouldn't occur), but I will have to double check to be sure

 

the way the mechanical advance operates is by advancing and retarding the actual shaft the toothed gear is attached to so the location of the pickups stay in place as the mechanical advance turns the top of the actual shaft independent of the bottom of the shaft.
The vacuum advance is the only part of the dizzy that controls leading and trailing separately.

 

You are correct. I wasn't thinking. I remember two curves on the figure, but one was 12A and the other 13B. Here is the figure:



Anyway, it sounds like it will do the job. It will be interesting to hear how it works.

 

Why not loose the waste spark and add a leading tooth? Wastespark makes the coil work twice as hard. You are so close to being able to run four coils independantly. It would make your leading coils perform better.

A friend of mine made a setup like this in the late 80's. He use two distributors and machined some pieces to stack the guts of one on on top of the other rotated 90°. This worked very well on his J-bridge.

 

You are able to have a wast spark or chose not to. if you want to run 4 coils - 12 o'clock sensor triggers L1 coil - 9 o'clock triggers L2 coil - 6 o'clock triggers T1 coil and 3 o'clock T2.
4 coils no wast spark.

 

Cool.

BTW when I said 90° before I meant 180°.

 

I just caught something from one of my previous posts. I stated sensors 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock are the leading sensors, its actually 12 and 9 (dizzy spins counter clockwise).
I'll throw this thing on the test engine and see if it works.

 

here's the other dizzy mentioned before. I'm planning doing this, but with 4 teeth on the bottom for wasted spark.

 

thats the one, im pretty sure its been alil over a year, did you buy it or are you going to make it and was there a write up on it some where??

 

++++1 on some info on that dizzy

 

Why am I thinking that you would want 1 tooth on the bottom and 1 tooth on the top 180° out to get 4 coils to work independantly? The dizzy is run on a 1:1 ratio from the engine isn't it? That setup looks like it will wastespark with 2 teeth per cam.

 

The dizzy runs at half engine speed. The standard reluctor has 4 teeth.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

And now that I am educated...

4 teeth on the bottom would trigger lower leading and trailing twice per engine RPM giving a leading and trailing wastespark signal.

If you leave it as your picture shows you can choose wastespark or independent fire. For a wastespark setup you can wire the ground of both leading ignitors together to trigger your two leading coils or single dual tower coil. Right?

 

Locked timing cas configed for leading + wast spark and adjustable trailing split. All direct fired.

 

ttt

 

I bought it a while back.

 

pretty interesting stuff here. at least i understand how the distributor on a rotary works a little better.