I want to use the stock FD water pump and housing, front cover and pulleys.. Will the stock FD pump move enough water to cool the engine? I plan on putting a T76 q-trim a/r .96 on it to start things off at around 600 hp or so and I'm going to pick up a Tec III computer to make it run with 3 x 720cc primary injectors and 3 x 1680 secondary injectors. I'll also be using FD housings or 20B ported housing with the FD exhaust sleeves and I'll be doing a light side port on the plates. I'm also thinking about modding a FD rear plate to use on the rear of the engine so I can use the stock mounting location and mounts for the FD, then make a separate mount on the left side of the engine intermediate plate to the frame rail/subframe as well. I already have a radiator that should handle the cooling job and a ORC triple plate clutch that will hold 1000hp and my OS Geiken cross mission with a good input shaft to handle the hp and torque. I also have a 3 rotor to4 manifold, but I think I'm going to mod my current T51 v band FD manifold with the 60mm wastgate by adding an additional runner to the front housing..

As far as modding the oil pan to work, can I use the front half of the 20b pan and the rear half of the FD pan and just weld them together? will this clear the steering rack etc.

If you have any info that will help me out or any links to good pics I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Chris

 

One additional question.. How are you guys making the Oil injection work that are running aftermarket ECU's? or are you all using premix?

 

well, about the premix, i dont see why you should even bother with the stock oil injectors. It'll be much easier to take them out while the engine is out of the car, and premix is so much better. More of an engine protection thing, but those those kind of numbers you wanna be pulling from that engine, you shouldn't skimp on anything, ya know?

 

if you were nuts, and had the power excel software you i think you could run the pfc and keep the premix

mike

 

How heavy are you going on the porting. I have a modified 20b in my FD and the 1600 secondaries are overkill. Actually, let me rephase that. I have an almost new set of 1600 injectors for sale if you want to buy them.

 

How heavy is your porting and what turbo with what boost are you running? Your primary size?
I was thinking of running a T78 at 14psi or so with 850 primaries and 1600 secondaries. I have a large streetport (from Pineapple Racing) 20b that is a long ways away from sparking any fuel. Is this similiar to what your overkill setup is/was? Just trying to think ahaed a bit.

 

I'll be running a T67, My friend over here is running 1680cc secondarys and 619cc prmarys and he is running out of fuel at 1.15 kgcm of boost with stock ports and his T67.. I'll be running a nicly sized side port and about the same turbo.. I already have 4 x 1680cc injectors, I just need to make the fuel rail..

 

Dragon, I am curious, what kind of egt's is your buddy running out of each rotor housing....how has he calculated he is running out of fuel? We calculated an approx duty cycle of 30% with the 1600s on a GT66@ 16#.

 

I'll have to ask him tonight.. I know he was running a lower fuel pressure at I think 35psi or so.. I'll also see if he will let me take some pic's... so I can post them.. And yes his FC is also white..

For a comparison of the 1680 on my 13B..

I was running 2 x 1680's and 2 x 550 and hitting 88% on my power FC with a to4r at 1.4 kgcm before at 55psi fuel pressure...

I'm currently running 2 x 1680 cc secondary's and the stock 2 x 550cc injectors in the primary’s and 2 x 720 cc injectors in the primary’s as well that are fired off the secondary injector wires to come on staged with them (the power fc thinks it has 2400cc secondary's). I'm currently hitting around 78% at 1.52 Kgcm of boost. I plan on seeing if the engine will hold 1.7 or 1.8 just prior to putting in the 20B once I get all my fabrication work finished. My ex temps are usually around 880'c or so and my hit 920'c in 5th gear on long runs, but some of this is due to me running a safe 10.8-11:1 a/f ratio on the wide band at 1.4 kgcm and above boost. I tune .8-1.4 kgcm boost at 11.5:1 tapering down to around 11.2 and run the rest of the map from 0-.8 at around 12.5:1. Most of the vacuum no load area is between 13.4 and 12.8 : 1 or so. I'm running a really big side port with about 1.5mm of corner seal ride living it on the edge.. lol I guess you could say the corner seals are living it on the edge in reality.. I'm also running 8.5:1 low compression FC turbo rotors in my current engine.

 

Mechanical OMP or premix. The new Haltech E11 supposedly runs an electric OMP.

On the FC, the front lobe of the stock oil pan is what interferes with the car, not the rear of the pan. The main problem with this is that the oil pickup is located in the front lobe of the stock 20B oil pan, so any modifications would require extensive reworking of the oil system in one of its most critical areas. I don't know where the oil pan interferes with the FD, but it's probably also the front of the pan because of the added length of the engine vs. the 13B.

 

actually the front and the rear are both in the way.. I'm definitly going to use the FD rear plate and port the runner to the same size as the 20B, I've already drilled out the 2 torsen bolt holes and have the whole thing assembled as a mock up right now and luckily I have the FD race car I'm building off to the side sitting in my shop to use to mock up the subframe. I'm only going to have to alter the front half of the subframe to drop the steering rack, but I'm not changing any of the rear motor mount area so I can drop a 13B in any time I want to and just disconect the center coils and injectors on the tec computer system. I'll even be able to drop in a 13BRE as well if I want to.. I like having the option of running all three engines in the car with only minor mod's.. I've also built the base of the oil pan as well.. I'll try to take some pic's here in the next few days and post them..

Can any of you tell me how far the Pettit racing subframe drops the power steering rack? and how is your ground clearance with that subframe? I'm sure I can drop the rack 7 cm and only put the sub frame about 2.5 cm closer to the ground. I can go even closer, but I'd like to keep the max ground clearance that I can.. I'm also going to be able to increase the oil capacity of the oil pan by about 1 1/2 to 2 qts by modding the front half of the sub frame as well..

 

I'm running pre-mix. I was told by the Hitman (after the motor was re-built) that I could have used the front cover and mechanical OMP from an '87 13B.

 

Pettit subframe



Both Subframes



Differences in spindles

 

It lowers the rack about 3/4"

 

From an '87 13B you say?

 

I assume this is a response to my post.

As I understand it, what the Aussies call an S4 had a mechanical OMP, and the S5 had the electronic OMP controlled by the ECU).

Try http://www.hitman.hm/rx7.htm and see if you can find more info there. If not, email him.

 

the front cover on the 20b looks a lot like a standard 89-91 rx7 cover, which interchanges* with a 74-88 cover

mike

*may not fit certain, covers with certain water pumps

 

Front cover off a gsl-se 13b fit on my 13B-RE with a 87 n/a water pump and housing (Assuming the 20b has the same front plate as the 13b-re?).

 

Hey IronMdnz, have you already installed the 20b in your car? If so whats really the main differance between the stock subframe and the pettit one(they look so close)? By the looks of the pictures I would assume its the mounting location for the engine mounts and the slightly lowered mounting points for the steering rack. Is that a good assumption or not?

 

Mine has a front cover and mechanical OMP from an 88 NA. The cover only required a very slight amount of fitting. It's been a while, but if I recall correctly, the TII front cover doesn't quite fit. BTW, I am using the stock 20B-REW water pump.

I plan to convert to a dry sump system when I rebuild the engine.

 

My friend with the 20B FC called Pettit racing and they said they drop the rack 2 1/2" and move it back a 1/4" and tilt it forward about 30-37' or so. When he met up with me last night I already had it already 85% done and that's pretty much exactly how I had put it
together.. I currently have the whole passenger side complete and the drivers side is complete, but only spot welded at the moment. I'm going to throw it in my race car today and check for clearances of the rack and pinion/steering knuckle prior to welding up completely on that side. I'll also try to remember to bring my camera with me today to the shop so I can post a few pic's to let you all see how I'm doing it...

 

I've got an '86-'88 NA waterpump and pulley set. I've also got a spare '83-'85 front cover with the 12A turbo oil return line casting under the OMP. It just needs to be drilled and tapped. I guess I could trade it for an '86-'88 NA front cover? I plan on using K2RD mounts or something similar so I won't need the old style front cover motor mounts. (btw this is going into my '76 Cosmo)

Could aluminum really hold a 20B? Probably, but I'd feel safer with K2RD type mounts.

Evil, I'll look for an NA front cover like you said. Thanks for the info!

 

Just ran home to get some food in me, so I snapped a few pic's as I ran out of the shop... Not finished yet, but should be by the end of the night...

 

bottom side

as you can see by the way I'm building this thing it is probably way harder than the pettit racing one, but by moving the frame forward about a 1 1/4 in I can make the capacity of the oil pan that I'm also making much larger.

 

close up of the drivers side