13b Supercharger Manifold
 

I've started in on one of my personal projects. I'm putting an Eaton M90 onto my track car (86 gxl). Since there is so little information on supercharged rotaries I figured I'd share.

Bellow are the cad renderings. I've machined about 75% of the parts for the manifold so far. Originally I was designing a set up to clear the OEM hood, but in an effort to get this finished quickly I switched to a set up that will bolt to a S4 manifold. This puts the blower above the hood line, but was easier to do and for a track car I don't mind cutting a hole in the hood.

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...ogs/blog/1.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...ogs/blog/2.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...ogs/blog/3.jpg

nice cad work. i'm interested to see how this turns out.

keep us updated with photos!

Thanks. I ran into problems trying to weld the runners in, so I'm recutting some of the parts. I'll post some more pictures as progress is made.

That's sick looks like a great manifold and the runners should match up well!

What else are the plans for the motor? Just stock with the supercharger on it? Or actual built motor?

For this season I'll most likely just be running the stock motor, unless I somehow find some time to build a new one for it. This years focus is on getting the chassis set up and track ready as well as building the supercharger set up.

Things always take longer then I plan them to, so this year my focus is just on getting things running and from there I will slowly upgrade and improve the set up. Right now the biggest problem I'm having is joining the engine side flange/runners/plenum floor. Everything is too close together for my welding skills.

Right now the plan is to use a 0.003 press fit and sleeve retainer, but I am also going to talk to someone who is a better welder then me, to see if maybe they can do the welding.

with that much space Id be trying to get a small water intercooler core in there as well !! :D

Thats a future plan. The laminova cores are not cheap though, and before I buy them, I want to know for sure that I can not only build the manifold but all the other parts of the system. The plenum was designed to fit two of the short laminova cores though, and there will be enough clearance front and rear for the fittings.

exactly.

dont know if you have seen this kit.

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produc...a_Intercooler/

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produc...cooler-450.jpg

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produc...sclose_800.jpg

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produc...sembly_800.jpg

I want to go something like this but then have your plenum adapter under it to convert it back to the 13b LIM

I have seen that kit before. It's very nice looking and appears well made, as do many of their parts.

The only thing that I wonder about is what sort of pressure drop they are seeing across the cores. They mention a 1.2 psi drop before and after, but thats manifold pressure not pressure drop through the cores. The laminova cores are supposed to have very little pressure drop across them which in theory means any additional pressure drop is due to other restrictions.

interesting thread :)

Busy trying to get orders shipped before my short xmas break. No time for lengthy descriptions but here is some pictures.

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...ogs/blog/4.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...ogs/blog/5.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...ogs/blog/6.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...ogs/blog/7.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...ogs/blog/8.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...ogs/blog/9.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/10.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/11.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/12.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/13.jpg

Oh and I should mention, the machining isn't the best. I don't have the time right now for custom fixtures and subplates, so basically I'm just doing what will work to get me parts for prototyping.

mate looks great :)

What SC you planning on using ?

Thanks. I'm going with an Eaton M90 from a thunderbird. They are easy to find, use the normal Eaton case (unlike the GM models), fit over the engine and have a decent selection of upgrade paths.

what sort of power are you expecting out of it, and whats the maximum speed (screw side) can you run them up to?

As far as power goes I'm not expecting to crack 300whp. I'm building the car as a bracket racer, so I'm mostly focused on getting out of the hole quickly and running consistent.

Eaton recommends 16,000 rpm max, but you can rebuild them with better bearings and rumor has it you can wind them out to closer to 24,000 rpm. Only two things happen when you over rev them though (not counting efficiency drops) . The bearing wear faster and the rotors can rub the housing. This isn't ideal and the blower may be wrecked, but the engine should survive.

Below is a simulation of the power output of an M90 on a 13B. Using the parameters of this model the blower is withing the OEM safe limit. This simulation assumed an intercooler efficiency of 75%. This is just a simulation and obviously not definitive data, but it should be accurate +/- 10% and still leave a fair bit of room in the system to squeeze more power out of it.

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/14.jpg

^ Unless that supercharger is doing something crazy down low you may wanna re-check that calibration because that simulation is nuts if it thinks a 13b rotary can make over 150lbs at idle. However if it can get close, you would have completley made a new case for rotary low end torque that even the twins can't match.


Nice manifold by the way. :bigthumb:

The great thing about blowers is that they are the most efficient where the engine is the least efficient. On the rotary it's down low.

This is a dyno of a s4 running a less efficient blower at 5psi. If you look you'll see it's making about 90 whp at 1500. So 150 flywheel off idle isn't that unrealistic. I've also seen some dynos of the renisis motor with a blower and they are making over 150 off idle, which is a good 40% increase.


http://www.atkinsrotary.com/images/SCdynoSheet.jpg

Do you mean 90 ft*lbs off idle? Its only making about 30 rwhp at 1500 RPM.

Yes I meant torque, force of habit discussing. Normally discussions are based around hp not tq.

No new pics, but figured I'd give a quick update for those following.

I stuck my head into a shop that I make parts for and talked to their welder. He's confident he can weld it up once I make a few small changes. I'm hoping to drop it off in a few days and be able to finalize the upper port placement. In the mean time I'm going to start designing the new pulleys, although I may hold off on making them until my little cnc lathe is ready.

How did you make these?

Yes I did, I wanted the runners in the manifold to match the lower manifold as close as possible. I designed everything myself and machined the parts in house. I'm sending it out for welding though ... it's to tight of an area for my limited welding skills.

I think you misread his question ... he said "HOW" did you make these. :) I'm only pointing out as I'm also curious.

My bad, I did misread the question. They were milled from aluminium on a 3 axis cnc mill.

Oh and the lower portion is back from the welder. Looks amazing, I just need to smooth down the welds and I'll be ready to work on the plenum body.

pic's :)

OK :)

Welds inside the runners. I put a large v groove in the parts to ensure lots of penetration. The welding was done by a local fabricator that is much better at this type of welding then I am.


http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/17.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/18.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/19.jpg


After about an hour with the die grinder everything is smoothed back out. I'll go over it tomorrow with a higher grit just to clean it up cosmetically. In the final picture you can set the outside of the runners. I really like the result of doing the welds this way and having the manifold look like one piece.

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/20.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/21.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/22.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/23.jpg

Very interesting way to have it welded up.

^Only way that works is if you get great penetration, however you have to be very carefull with the regrinding. Looks good! :bigthumb:

Moar!!

Very true. Although I put a very large bevel on the parts to ensure the weld would be very deep and wide.


I managed to get some work on the plenum body done this weekend, including a very rough test fit on the car. Work is busy this week so I'll try to take some pics soon.

very nice quality there mate, truly beautiful ;)

unfortunately i also have a hard time seeing the M90 put down anywhere near 350WHP, some people have used them but put down closer to maybe 250WHP.

Any updates level 0 ?

Out of the box you are correct, but with the newer rotors and an upgrade housing it has been done. If I remember right a few of the thunderbird guys are making 400+. Personally I'll just be happy to be able to take the car down the track this year.

Work has been hectic and the weather hasn't been great so I haven't done much on the manifold. I started welding up the plenum but still need to machine the top plate.

This weekend some friends came by and while poking at the car, one pointed out I might be able to fit the m90 on the OEM manifold with an adapter. I had all the cad files I needed to whip up a design so I made this up today.

I still plan on finishing the manifold, but this will work as a good solution for now. and also let's me start working on the pully's.


http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/33.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/34.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/35.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/36.jpg

http://levelzeromotorsports.com/blog...gs/blog/37.jpg

lol almost looks stock :P

personally it would still be nice to have the offset incase you do go with a IC later down the track :)

sc
 

I have a 87 gxl na and a 89 supercoupe Thunderbird I was wondering if this was possible. the m90 can easily spin over stock setup by ford ( pulley ) not uncommon to see 5% and mostly 10% overdrive on them. I was getting 18lb boost on stock pulley and blew head gasket. with higher compression rotors more rpms and the fact it came off a 3.8l. I would think you need a turbo block or lower compression for it to not blow somewhere. Making your own pulley would help. Seems you have the resources to do so. I will be watching this closely.

Nice quick job on the adapter. how does it line up with the rest of the pulleys?

this is bad ass i will keep checking up on this very iNtrested to see final dyno pull

Almost, except the snout wont clear the hood line. With the manifold it was even worse :)

I personally like high compression build with forced induction. It's all in the tuning/detonation management. That being said, this set up is horrible idea for anyone not willing to kill a few motors. I can tweak the pulleys to keep the boost low, with the intake charge is still going to be stupidly hot. Thankfully this is my track car and I have most of the bits for a PWM water injection set up.


+/- 0.050" give or take. I'll be machining the pulleys so anything that is out of line will be able to be made up in the other pulleys. I was mostly worried about firewall clearance and making sure the inlet/outlet lined up well.

I don't expect big numbers. I'm planning to keep things tame this year, and there is still a long list of work to do on the chassis.

here is a idea. use the stock fd pulleys so you can use a nice 5 rib belt. i have some i can hook you up with possibly.

I thought about that, but the SC 6 rib, I forget off the top of my head. I'm planning on either running 6 rib or dual 4 rib belts. I plan to under drive the water pump to prevent cavitation, and under drive the alt to save reduce parasitic drag.

machining your own pulleys would be nice. I got the atkins 6rib kit for a project like this, that money hasnt existed for yet.

want to sell me one of those Supercharger adaptors? it seems like you have the means to make them easily

subscribed

if you are considering selling parts when you get somewhere with this I have a spare m90 laying around and the atkins 6rib pulley kit already ; ) just started suspension first.

Since I've been doing abit of research on this, if the M90 is right on the manifold where would the Bypass valve go?