tims

the Haltech and Motec units can use almost any stock crank angle sensor and most oem temp sensors. Also the E6K comes with the ignition control for almost any oem igniter. The higher end units have more load points and finer resolution and faster processing. For wide open throttle as used in drag racing these things are not needed. at WOT the timing is fixed and the boost is at its peak and as long as there is enough fuel it will make it 1320 feet. this is why top fuel and funny cars run mechanical injection and magnetos. this is old technology but it can still make 10000Hp and run 4 secong times. but you would have a hard time using that engine in a road race car or in a street car. this is why F1 and sports car racing went to electronic fuel injection years ago to gain drivability and fuel economy. I believe all the ECU's mentioned and others will work on almost any engine, but it comes down to support in my opinion. if you have a shop, a friend , or a family member that can help tune and trouble shoot a system then it is probably better you use that system. in the long run it will work better for you if there is someone else who can help when things are not going well. I have struggled with a couple different systems and once I had alittle support I got the last one to work for me.

RETed

This can be a double-edged sword.
I don't find the advantage of having built-in ignitor modules that big of a deal unless you're going for a "custom installation" that requires you to retrofit a custom ignition system on the vehicle.&nbsp For those installing these stand-alone EMS units on a factory vehicle, most modern vehicles come with on-board ignitor modules stock - it's just a matter of splicing into these wires.

If, for some reason, the ignitor module fails on the Microtech, you'd probably need to return it to Microtech to get it fixed/replaced...?



-Ted

RETed

Looks useless to me... There are some minor corrections (MoTeC has a Windows interface now?), but nothing to fret over.

Looks like someone went through the brochures and took all the highlights off of them.&nbsp I used to have a chart that compared the Haltech vs. TEC-II vs. Wolf but took it all down cause it didn't prove anything.&nbsp All good tuners know that looking at "specs" don't mean anything - the power of the EMS is directly proportional to the ability of the tuner.&nbsp ALL of the EMS units are minimum capable of controlling and running almost any ICE out there.&nbsp Yes, fast clock rates is theoretically superior, but does that mean you'll see it under real-world conditions?&nbsp I doubt it.



-Ted

1000HP20B

I thought the document might illustrate how adjustable the units are or are not to people who dont know.. the Motec has over 800 adjustable fuel points etc the Microtech has 272, but has a 32bit processor. A lot of people dont know anything about the Microtech systems so I thought it may be worthwile.
The 32bit interpolation of the Microtech is extremely good and is obvious in real time as you can watch the injector output changing when you are in between two adjustment points on the laptop and it is progressive and fine in its operation.
Again dont blame me for the document I only came on here to try to add some information and its obviously not appreciated.
I've never had a Microtech internal igniter fail, I would think they'd be more reliable away from water/dirt and heat in the engine bay anyway.
Whilst on the Microtech pro's and con's thread I think its fair to say that something that may let them down a bit is that they are configured to suit one vehicle and your required to send them back to get it set up for a completely different car, so buying a second hand one or wanting to re-use one for a different application may be a hassle.

Anthony Rodrigues

1000hp20B,
The mtx(internal ignitor) unit is only an option, the MT series will run most factory ignitions and can be used on other set ups with common ignition pick ups. As a tuner I do not know of any more critical time that an ECU needs to be more accuratr than in a drag racing applications because the highest chamber pressures and temperatures capable of breaking your engine occur when you are operating at your peak levels. If drag racing doesnt promote this, then what does? This is not to say that the other units do not work for drag racing, but if you discount accuracy or level of difficulty because it is on a drag car then you have obviously never had any success at it. Mid 7sec @ over 170mph tells me that you know, so do not think that your opinion is not appreciated by most.
Regards- Anthony

1000HP20B

Anthony,
I am trying to be as unbiased and open minded as possible, posting on these forums is like walking on eggshells most of the time, you can get slammed for just stating some of the experiences weve had in our time, on the dyno and on the racetrack.
I almost dont want to even mention that I build and tune the worlds 2nd fastest rotary 7.49 @ 175mph because, It doesnt seem to make any difference to how people recieve my opinion,.... yes that car runs a Microtech and has NEVER had an apex seal failure, we have only ever had bearing failures in the engine or broken an end plate in the 3 years we have run the 20B in the dragster. For the application its used for at the moment I hav'nt found any limitations and have had total reliability, The comprehensive datalogging of everything including air/fuel ratio has certainly helped us get to where we are. Yes I'm sure that if I put one of my Motec's on it we'd probably be able to do the same job, but the point I'm making now is that the Microtech has proven itself here and the results and the engine reliabilty speaks for itself.

PLEASE NOTE I am a Haltech and Motec dealer as well. So before I get slammed for stating our success with the Microtech product in this application, NOTE I am not biased or plugging my only product.

kabooski

Eh don't take there bitching to personal

You know companies(import)spend lots of $$$$$
promoting there products on drag racers
more then any other form of racing

why? cause if you see some civic ,rex that is making good ET's you think there product is good and effective

AEM has not spent 100k+ on the AEM civic for nothing
nor has Ford spent so much money promoting the Focus
in drag racing

The people bitching are road racers(amature)
who have 0 proven 1/4 mile expertise

Thats why I dont buy mazdatrix/racing beat products
or take there advice
These are road racing companies
who's R&D is spent on making cars go around circles

mazdatrix's attempt to enter drag racing
was a joke.

But since I started this thread
I would like to state that I went ahead last week and ordered the E6K

Just for the simple fact that I would get the largest
installed base here in the USA which= largest number of tuners and support

The EMS that you have to compare vs the microtech is not Haltech,Motec etc

But SDS ems sub 800 US price range
here the Microtech Fuel/Ig beats it hands down


http://www.sdsefi.com

A local speed shop here in my town is interested in maybe becoming a Microtech dealer/Tuner

right now he is a SDS dealer but likes the features of the microtech and thinks if would be a better EMS for the money

I'm going to get his email ad
and post it here so you can get in touch wih him
and discuss it.

RETed

This might be a non-use with the use of "self-tune" features which (I think) the MoTeC should have...


I think you're reading way too much into the post, or your ego is already so bruised that you can't take any hint of "criticism."&nbsp My reply was never to slander you - if it's something I said, I apologize for that.


If there is one thing I learned about electronics...is that you NEVER trust them to be reliable...



-Ted

RETed

Why don't you introduce yourself to the group.&nbsp Most of the user base is from the U.S., and unless we've been fanatics are keeping up with the Aussie scene, I don't think most people on here know who you are.&nbsp I've asked the same from Anthony Rodrigues, but I don't think he ever obliged to post that information.&nbsp Care to drop any details on how many Microtechs you sell/install versus all the other brands?



-Ted

RETed

Wow, I guess the drag races are the know-all and end-all to all tuning questions, huh...


Funny, RB was dragging their RX-3 before you were even born, I'd bet.&nbsp This is some of the most ridiculous claims I've ever seen on this forum.

Hmmm...Dave Lemon actually peruses this board.&nbsp Maybe we can get a comment from him?

Maybe I should steal a tactic you guys seem to love to use...
That Mazdatrix car has done...what...10's?&nbsp 9's?&nbsp How fast have YOU gone?



-Ted

Anthony Rodrigues

ReTed,
I did not take you up on your offer as we were already engaging in hostilities, and while I may be introducing myself I do not want to be seen to be name dropping or arrogant but I will introduce myself formally.
*My name is Anthony Rodrigues I am 35y.o and the founder and cwner of Maztech of Melbourne. I give seminars to Aussie tuners(workshops incl. pistonites) on EFI.
I crew and help Siguel (Jose Torres) at NHRA, you can see me in front of the car at most tracks in USA. I also am in the process of building a 4 rotor for MVA in NY and will be tuning their new pro stock truck this month.
I tune the leading rotary circuit cars in Aus, having claim to wins in Sports sedan/ Clubcar(improved prod)/GTP factory production racing and sprint events. I set up and tune Aus fastest rotary off road vehicle and have won Aus junior rally championships. I also assist my dealers and associates in all forms of rotary or efi vehicles competition all over the world.
My own cars started withRX3's and progressed to FD rx7's.
I have been the fastest Rotary powered vehicle at the drags in Aus most of the time over the past 10 years.
My RX3 was the fastest Outlaw or Pro street style Rotary in the world for almost 3 years 8.7@156mph 1996. My Fd was the worlds fastest outlaw on its second run. 8.18@164mph. 13b weight and spec legal. You will see this on rx7.com records.
Fast Fours and Rotaries list me as one of the worlds five most famous rotary engine personalities, a point that I am very proud of..... There is alot more but that should be enough for me not to be considered a fool.
Regards-Anthony

1000HP20B

reTED,
O.K I shall take you up on your offer and introduce myself to the group also but as I stated before, it doesnt seem how much experience or success one has had ,their input is often rejected by others that do not even own tune shops, I am NOT pointing the blame at anyone in particular but speaking generally of this forum.
Anthony has experienced a lot of this and just look at part of his rightfull claim to fame and expertise listed above.
As for the numbers of ECU's I sell.. at the moment I sell 2-3 Haltech E6K's per week..mainly to the USA and approx 1 Microtech per week and a half on average, I only sell a Motec every 2 months.
My history is:-
Started R.P.M Performance Centre in 1995 going on to have my R100 featured in the top five fastest rotaries in Australia ( I think it was number three behind Pac and Anthony) featured in Fast Fours and Rotaries magazine in 1996. Currently I do the engine build and tune on Corey Armstrongs dragster, which we built 3 years ago, the car now runs 7.49 as its best with convertor problems, 7.20's are achievable in the next outing which is planned to be the Winternationals. That engine is producing near 950hp at the moment. I have personally produced numerous 10 second rotaries and do tune work on a few 9 second cars that are piston and 1 rotary powered car, most of these have featured in Australian magazines. some of these are Haltech powered cars, I tune the current points leader Future Tourer V8 (class down from V8 Supercars) owned by Mark Pappendell, that is Motec powered, Rene'Felkl's Motec Karmann Ghia which was a class leader in the Adelaide classic rally last two years , prior to last year and do tune work for many other circut cars that are on a club level that have Motec and Haltech ECU's.
Rotaries are really only a small part of what we do at RPM. which is a 500sq/m workshop that now employs 6 people, we mainly now do big Hp 4cyl cars like a 600hp 1.8 litre Nissan 180SX that has recently featured in Zoom magazine here in Aust.

kabooski

Ted let's have your resume
shall we?
since you talk the talk eh
LoL

The only thing that keeps me from flaming ted
on number of topics
is that he post here alot and helps out with issues

Other that Ted really is not even close to the same caliber as you T or Anthony

So don't take his remarks to personal
Always remember actions speak louder then words
Ted can talk all he wants
but you guys "prove" it everyday where it counts

Thanks to Siguel use of the Microtech I hear more and more racers here discussing this EMS

Ted post pics of your car so T and Anthony can see what great wisdom and skills have resulted in....
----------------------------------------

Evil This is a tame discussion

RAZZOR

Hi there guys.
I am not a tuner or efi expert but have installed a couple of Microtech mtx8's and have found them to be GREAT value for money spent.The Microtech systems are very popular here in South Africa ,only downfall is after sales service.Of the rotary powered drag and street cars in South Africa i would say 80 percent are running Microtech systems and dominating thier competition .The only downside to Microtech is that you have to order your system to suit the vehicle you working on at the time.
As for the attitude towards 1000hp20b and Anthony ,you guys are priviledged to have these guys on the forum.Anthony Rodrigues is a rotary legend in our racing fraternity.

Evil Aviator

LOL, I'm watching.

BTW, please do not feel pressured into telling your entire life story on the internet if you do not feel comfortable doing so. We would all like to hear the stories, but not at the expense of your privacy. Thank you for sharing if you choose to do so.

Anthony Rodrigues

Thanks Guys,
I believe that I can speak for the two of us. Although we are passionate about what we have done, please remember that we introduced ourselves only to give ourselves some credibility and not in any way to show up ReTed. His input is as valuable as anyone elses here and I am certain that he has looked into areas that we know nothing about and can be assistance to us also. We do not want to flame anybody but do expect these forums to be fair, that is the only reason this all began, I personally believe that we no longer need to go there!
Good healthy differences in opinion have sorted many unsolveable problems but slagging has never resolved anything.
Regards- Anthony

1000HP20B

I really want to keep a low profile on this forum but only posted my history as reTED requested some posts back.

Anthony said it all in his last post.

RETed

I'm working on it - it used to be up on the old K2RD site, but it was taken down when I left.&nbsp I'm working on a new version, and it should be put up on the N-XSi site soon.&nbsp I have a bit about myself on the FC3S Pro site in the Project Cars section.&nbsp URL's are in th .sig...


I never said that I was nor meant to imply I was.&nbsp If that's what you have inferred from my posts, I apologize for the miscommunication.


The pics and text are all up on the website - I have nothing to hide.

I thank both Anthony Rodrigues and 1000hp20B be humoring me and giving us some idea on who they are.&nbsp My queries was not meant as a joke or a jab, but to seriously figure out who you folks are.&nbsp I know some of their backgrounds from other sources, but I'm sure a lot of others are curious to know who these people were.&nbsp Having someone pop-up on here and claim they run 7's and produce 1500hp does not give you legitamacy or credentials - I think you said it also:&nbsp talk is cheap.&nbsp I think with a better idea on who were are trading posts with, the brief background descriptions are very helpful into adding to credibility and respect...



-Ted

Evil Aviator

That's fine, and well understood. I just didn't want anybody to think that there was some type of identification requirement on this forum. However, it does help to understand your perspective. LOL, you will never have any credibility on the internet, so you may as well just accept that fact right now.

Sorry to butt in so much, but we have experienced some social problems lately, and I just want to make sure that everything gets back to normal. Please continue with the Microtech discussion for the benefit of the forum, and feel free to start new threads if needed.

crispeed

Bottom line is that it does not matter what ECU or how many features it possesses so long as the end results are what makes everyone happy. Being satisfied requires an experienced person who have used the product and have achieved good results.
I've been tuning stand alones for the last 7 or 8 years in both piston and rotary powered vechicles and have seen the results that can be achieved with many ECU's may it be it a high or low end unit. If you're not comfortable and experienced with a particular unit then the results are not going to be good. That also does not give that said tuner the right to slander the ECU's performance based on his particular results. It's been proven many times that everyone can achieve different results with the same products.
In my opinion you cannot have one without the other.
ECU+Happy Tuner=Positive results.
A lot of people on this Forum don't realise how priveledge they are too have so many experienced people to give advise. There are are a lot of people that make claims and what not but the ones that have the proof on paper and show the results to the rest of the world are the ones that really matters!

crispeed
87 Rx-7 TII
9.204@150.47mph
689RWHP/541RWTQ
T-72
2600lbs
un-tubbed

SPOautos

Damn, and here I am struggling to get my car to reliably run 11's. I have no acess to wideband, dyno, rotary specialist or anything. I'm currently saving up for a wideband but the wideband money I was saving is now gone as I'm rebuiling yet another motor.

With all the money I've spend on my car there is no telling what kind of car I could have put together if I had someone here with expertise like you guys so I wouldnt have to be redoing everything all the time.

As far as I'm concerned tuning is everything, all the parts in the world wont help if they are not tuned. I'm soooo glad we've got some more creditable tuners on the forum as this is my ONLY source of info and I'm sure that goes for many other people as well.

Now if only I could download my car to one of you guys so you can tune it and email it back to me....haha if only it were possible.

So anyone of you guys planning on a trip to Birmingham, Alabama any time soon??? I've got a Power FC and Datalogit thats begging for some gifted hands to touch it lol What would it take to get one of you guys here.....or maybe Atlanta, I can go to Atlanta its only a couple hours away. Actually I'd prob go just about anywhere to have you guys tune my car......if I could afford it that is haha, I'm sure expertise doesnt come cheap.

I want to welcome you guys and let you know how glad we always are to have qualified people on the board. I've learned alot from Chrispeed and Rice Racing but a few more expert tuners never hurts anything.

Later,
STEPHEN

SPOautos

By the way, if one of you guys wants to write a detailed book on exactly how to tune a rotary and how you guys find that hidden hp I'll pay $100 for it. It should probably also include info on the building secrets for a high hp rotary also.....if it has that we can bump it to $150 haha

Later,
STEPHEN

oasv

Hello to all, I'm planning to buy a Power FC, E6K, or a Microtech management system for my daily driver 94 rx-7. Any sugestions will be appreciatted. Thanks

10sec rx7

Osav

Have a look under the microtech section on this forum, there is a group buy going at the moment that is a very good price and tech support supplied as well,

Dale

Angel Guard Racing Team

A friend of mine has a microtech installed and programmed by Siguel Racing on his first gen 13B Turbo and runs 10:03 and drives the car to work everyday. So there you have it, by the way Siguel Racing improved the time to 6:98. My friend's car idles just fine, that proves that if the car is programmed by someone who really knows what they are doing it will work JUST PERFECT (of course using the right model ECU and settings).