WTH is wrong with the FIA?
10-23-04, 03:24 PM
#1
WTH is wrong with the FIA?
I really do not understand the constant yearly rule changes, that are supposed to make things more competitive and better for the little teams. How clueless is the FIA? Who is going to have a better chance at making a high HP engine that can last 2 races, Ferrari or Minardi? Switching to V-8's, yeah sure, that will make a difference.
These rule changes are assanine, and will have absolutely no effect on the overall results. Maybe a few more engines going up with a huge smokeshow will increase viewer excitement, but the real issue - the on track racing action - will still be the same. They have tried so much garbage to stop the Ferrari domination, to no effect. When are they going to realize that the patchwork solutions have changed nothing.
I agree that they do need to change car aerodynamics. We need to see the close racing that was possible back in the 70's and 80's. Having windtunnel queens that can't be withing 50 feet of one another is not good for racing.
Bernie needs to realize that a huge part of the problem is his money grubbing. Maybe F1 needs to give the little guys some real money to compete. Time for some profit sharing for the good of the series, not just to buy more yachts for Bernie and his cronies.
These rule changes are assanine, and will have absolutely no effect on the overall results. Maybe a few more engines going up with a huge smokeshow will increase viewer excitement, but the real issue - the on track racing action - will still be the same. They have tried so much garbage to stop the Ferrari domination, to no effect. When are they going to realize that the patchwork solutions have changed nothing.
I agree that they do need to change car aerodynamics. We need to see the close racing that was possible back in the 70's and 80's. Having windtunnel queens that can't be withing 50 feet of one another is not good for racing.
Bernie needs to realize that a huge part of the problem is his money grubbing. Maybe F1 needs to give the little guys some real money to compete. Time for some profit sharing for the good of the series, not just to buy more yachts for Bernie and his cronies.
Last edited by eViLRotor; 10-23-04 at 03:27 PM.
10-23-04, 06:07 PM
#2
They need to change some rules allowing into production of cars. As it stands, the only part that can be manufatured and bought from a company not sponsoring a team is the gearbox (and the tyres). The little teams need to be able to buy the same stuff ferrari uses instead of developing their own.
And on another note, theres a new Russian team coming. I forget the name, starts with an M. They are building 2 cars and they are hoping to pick up a russian driver off another racing series to compete in 2006. With all these rule changes, you think they'd go somewhere else.
And on another note, theres a new Russian team coming. I forget the name, starts with an M. They are building 2 cars and they are hoping to pick up a russian driver off another racing series to compete in 2006. With all these rule changes, you think they'd go somewhere else.
10-23-04, 10:23 PM
#3
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Unfortunately being at the pinnicle of the motorsport world, there is bound to be some unfairness between teams. All because of 2 things: Money and Technology!
Without these 2 things Formula 1 would not be where it is today. It's unfortunate but true.
The rules change every year because Bernie knows they would lose audience if Ferrari keeps doing what it does best! Doesn't hurt that Bernie is a bit biased when it comes to Ferrari. Regardless, everyone knows Ferrari is the top dog. To compete against a team of that stature is daunting!
Hense the rule changes.
What they need to do is get everyone to start from a clean slate. Cap the amount of money teams spend (have you seen those fancy transport trucks! Not to mention all the accessories that come with race weekends!). While still encouraging ways of getting the technology to last longer. I think getting a single engine to last at least 2 races including all the practice runs and qualifying would be a good start. Capping them in the amount of fuel they can use is also a good way of regulating things.
These are just a few examples of what they should be aiming for. Getting everyone on a even playing field!
Taking a bit of the tech out of the cars would be nice too. Get rid of Launch Control, Traction control (they've tried and it seems impossible to regulate this), car telemetry... basically anything the smaller teams can't afford.
Maybe then we'll be able to have the type of racing this series was known for.... Ah the good old days....
Lates,
Without these 2 things Formula 1 would not be where it is today. It's unfortunate but true.
The rules change every year because Bernie knows they would lose audience if Ferrari keeps doing what it does best! Doesn't hurt that Bernie is a bit biased when it comes to Ferrari. Regardless, everyone knows Ferrari is the top dog. To compete against a team of that stature is daunting!
Hense the rule changes.
What they need to do is get everyone to start from a clean slate. Cap the amount of money teams spend (have you seen those fancy transport trucks! Not to mention all the accessories that come with race weekends!). While still encouraging ways of getting the technology to last longer. I think getting a single engine to last at least 2 races including all the practice runs and qualifying would be a good start. Capping them in the amount of fuel they can use is also a good way of regulating things.
These are just a few examples of what they should be aiming for. Getting everyone on a even playing field!
Taking a bit of the tech out of the cars would be nice too. Get rid of Launch Control, Traction control (they've tried and it seems impossible to regulate this), car telemetry... basically anything the smaller teams can't afford.
Maybe then we'll be able to have the type of racing this series was known for.... Ah the good old days....
Lates,
10-24-04, 09:26 AM
#4
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Ferrari hasn't always been top dog. I remember them being rather mediocre as a matter of fact. I use to watch pretty regularly but after a while you realize that it is just the Schumacher Show or Senna Show. It's always been just one team winning all the races and it just gets worst and worst every year with Ferrari having taken over completely.
Is it just me or was the playing field a little bit more level back in the days of Damon Hill, Nigel Mansell, Jacques Villeneuve.
Was Mika Hakkinen the last person to give Michael Schumacher a real run?
Is it just me or was the playing field a little bit more level back in the days of Damon Hill, Nigel Mansell, Jacques Villeneuve.
Was Mika Hakkinen the last person to give Michael Schumacher a real run?
10-24-04, 10:54 AM
#5
NO offense to anyone, but Jacques Villeneuve is a bit of a cocky bastard. He claims hes better than Schumacher, only hes succeeded in victory miniscule times compared to the german. He crashed more times his first 2 years with Formula 1 than he finished races. He claims BAR-Honda wasn't good enough to keep up with Ferrari, but look at Jenson Button! Hes in the top 3 overall with the Same car Villeneuve drove.
On another note, I'd like to say that Its not just the fact ferrari has all the toys that they win, Schumacher is also one of the best, most consistent drivers anyone has ever seen in the sport. The car doesnt drive itself (although knowing ferrari, it might as well.....).
Changes to V8 Motors? This might as well be Champ Car racing now. I say we stick Paul Tracy in a BAR-Honda and see him rip up Schumacher.....
On another note, I'd like to say that Its not just the fact ferrari has all the toys that they win, Schumacher is also one of the best, most consistent drivers anyone has ever seen in the sport. The car doesnt drive itself (although knowing ferrari, it might as well.....).
Changes to V8 Motors? This might as well be Champ Car racing now. I say we stick Paul Tracy in a BAR-Honda and see him rip up Schumacher.....
10-24-04, 12:03 PM
#6
Senior Member
You critcize Jacques for lots of crashing and you pick Paul Tracy to rip up Schumacher? Hellloooo.......anybody actually watch CART? Tracy has actually been warned about crashing into people.
As for Jacques I do agree that he has much to prove. The year he won the drivers championship he had the superior car. And even then it came down to a single race between him and Schumacher to determine the champion. I'm not a Schumacher fan but I'm also not ignorant to the fact that the man is a winner. He won before Ferrari and I'm relatively sure that if he left Ferrari he would eventually be a winner again. In fact, I think that Schumacher leaving Ferrari for another team might make F1 worth watching again.
As for Jacques I do agree that he has much to prove. The year he won the drivers championship he had the superior car. And even then it came down to a single race between him and Schumacher to determine the champion. I'm not a Schumacher fan but I'm also not ignorant to the fact that the man is a winner. He won before Ferrari and I'm relatively sure that if he left Ferrari he would eventually be a winner again. In fact, I think that Schumacher leaving Ferrari for another team might make F1 worth watching again.
10-24-04, 01:12 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by soloracer951
... In fact, I think that Schumacher leaving Ferrari for another team might make F1 worth watching again.
On the Villenueve front, he does have a lot to prove. He needs a relatively competitive car and hopefully he'll regain his confidence. BAR's cars are much better this year and is definitely not the same car that Villenueve was driving originally. BAR is much more reliable now.
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10-24-04, 05:10 PM
#8
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I think it would be tough, but MS can be beaten. Imagine next year if Ferrari, McLaren, BAR, Williams and Renault are able to lap with a couple tenths of one another? The later 4 have been extremely competitive this year. McLaren, Renault and BAR have very strong lineups for next year.
The cars are insainly quick right now, so I think the FIA is making the right move to slow them down. Why would you care if they're running a V8 or V10? Essentially the FIA waited far too long between changes to slow the cars.
As for the little teams, most of the new rules are not intended to make any difference to them. The provision that the little teams will be allowed to run transitional rev limited 3L V10s while the others have to switch to 2.4Ls is the first rule that will truely help the little guys. Limiting the revs of a 3L will put them on the right track to last the require distance and have competitive power output. Hopefully we'll see Jordan and Minardi a little more competitive then they currently are. Let's be honest, Minardi in particular is a joke this year.
The cars are insainly quick right now, so I think the FIA is making the right move to slow them down. Why would you care if they're running a V8 or V10? Essentially the FIA waited far too long between changes to slow the cars.
As for the little teams, most of the new rules are not intended to make any difference to them. The provision that the little teams will be allowed to run transitional rev limited 3L V10s while the others have to switch to 2.4Ls is the first rule that will truely help the little guys. Limiting the revs of a 3L will put them on the right track to last the require distance and have competitive power output. Hopefully we'll see Jordan and Minardi a little more competitive then they currently are. Let's be honest, Minardi in particular is a joke this year.
10-24-04, 10:55 PM
#9
Im just waiting to see what other kinds of crazy rules they come up with. They should turn more into NASCAR or something, where all the cars are pretty much the same. There are only 3 makes to choose from and the engines are pretty much the same. Thats a very difficult series and its all about the drivers. FIA seems more about the cars lately. I think they should limit the flywheel horsepower or something. They institute rules but really, the teams find little tricks to improve or get around it. I garuntee that ferrari's V8's will be damn near close to the power of the V10.
And on another note, I chose paul tracy because he was a canuck. I dont really watch CART much but last time I did, he was winning. In fact the last few times I did, he was winning. And I can't really watch Formula 1 anymore because its only on at like 3AM on my dish. Who wants to stay upto 5 or 6 AM to watch a race?
And on another note, I chose paul tracy because he was a canuck. I dont really watch CART much but last time I did, he was winning. In fact the last few times I did, he was winning. And I can't really watch Formula 1 anymore because its only on at like 3AM on my dish. Who wants to stay upto 5 or 6 AM to watch a race?
10-24-04, 11:34 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by Alak
NO offense to anyone, but Jacques Villeneuve is a bit of a cocky bastard. He crashed more times his first 2 years with Formula 1 than he finished races. He claims BAR-Honda wasn't good enough to keep up with Ferrari, but look at Jenson Button! Hes in the top 3 overall with the Same car Villeneuve drove.
First, JV only retired from 3 races out of 16 in 1996, then 5 out of 17 in 1997.
Second, Jenson is NOT driving the same car.
As a matter of fact, a strong argument can be made that the car Jenson and Taku are enjoying this year has eveolved from all of the work that JV and Zonta did in developing the package in the previous years.
Code:
1996 Jacques Villeneuve Grand Prix Date Team Grid Race Pos Points Total Australian 10/03/1996 Williams-Renault 1 2 6 6 Brazilian 31/03/1996 Williams-Renault 3 Ret 0 6 Argentine 07/04/1996 Williams-Renault 3 2 6 12 European 28/04/1996 Williams-Renault 2 1 10 22 San Marino 05/05/1996 Williams-Renault 3 11 0 22 Monaco 19/05/1996 Williams-Renault 10 Ret 0 22 Spanish 02/06/1996 Williams-Renault 2 3 4 26 Canadian 16/06/1996 Williams-Renault 2 2 6 32 French 30/06/1996 Williams-Renault 6 2 6 38 British 14/07/1996 Williams-Renault 2 1 10 48 German 28/07/1996 Williams-Renault 6 3 4 52 Hungarian 11/08/1996 Williams-Renault 3 1 10 62 Belgian 25/08/1996 Williams-Renault 1 2 6 68 Italian 08/09/1996 Williams-Renault 2 7 0 68 Portuguese 22/09/1996 Williams-Renault 2 1 10 78 Japanese 13/10/1996 Williams-Renault 1 Ret 0 78 1997 Jacques Villeneuve Grand Prix Date Team Grid Race Pos Points Total Australian 09/03/1997 Williams-Renault 1 Ret 0 0 Brazilian 30/03/1997 Williams-Renault 1 1 10 10 Argentine 13/04/1997 Williams-Renault 1 1 10 20 San Marino 27/04/1997 Williams-Renault 1 Ret 0 20 Monaco 11/05/1997 Williams-Renault 3 Ret 0 20 Spanish 25/05/1997 Williams-Renault 1 1 10 30 Canadian 15/06/1997 Williams-Renault 2 Ret 0 30 French 29/06/1997 Williams-Renault 4 4 3 33 British 13/07/1997 Williams-Renault 1 1 10 43 German 27/07/1997 Williams-Renault 9 Ret 0 43 Hungarian 10/08/1997 Williams-Renault 2 1 10 53 Belgian 24/08/1997 Williams-Renault 1 5 2 55 Italian 07/09/1997 Williams-Renault 4 5 2 57 Austrian 21/09/1997 Williams-Renault 1 1 10 67 Luxembourg 28/09/1997 Williams-Renault 2 1 10 77 Japanese 12/10/1997 Williams-Renault 1 DSQ 0 77 European 26/10/1997 Williams-Renault 1 3 4 81
10-24-04, 11:36 PM
#12
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there could be lots of discussion to be had on this topic...
i was really starting to actually like the current setup and format. the cars are just performing so well and the engines are nearing perfection. i really loved the V10...
i don't think saying getting rid of things like traction control and telemetry because the smaller teams can't afford it is entirely true. the smaller teams are actually able to implement these items just fine, there are much larger areas to be dealth with in terms of cost.
it has to be realized that MS is actually the best driver on the grid. unless he were in a significantly worse car (cough *minardi* cough...sorry), he would still be winning races...the fact that he is in a superior car makes the effect of dominance even greater. but i don't think the Ferraris are technically that much better than the runners up...
what they DO have though is a very strong, efficient, and performing team behind the car, which includes not only the drivers but the technical and management team. even under bad circumstances Ferrari never seems to faulter. some teams are just trying to keep it together under normal conditions. and then there is Ferrari reliability, which again is an after effect of having the best and most highly paid technical team out there...
but also money is not everything...if it were Toyota would be winning the championship
anyways, i think it is a part of the sport that must be accepted, these rule changes. with it being the mostly widely seen sports event, and also quite possibly the most commercial, it can't be avoided. sad but true...
anyways, it always manages to work itself out. hopefully.
i was really starting to actually like the current setup and format. the cars are just performing so well and the engines are nearing perfection. i really loved the V10...
i don't think saying getting rid of things like traction control and telemetry because the smaller teams can't afford it is entirely true. the smaller teams are actually able to implement these items just fine, there are much larger areas to be dealth with in terms of cost.
it has to be realized that MS is actually the best driver on the grid. unless he were in a significantly worse car (cough *minardi* cough...sorry), he would still be winning races...the fact that he is in a superior car makes the effect of dominance even greater. but i don't think the Ferraris are technically that much better than the runners up...
what they DO have though is a very strong, efficient, and performing team behind the car, which includes not only the drivers but the technical and management team. even under bad circumstances Ferrari never seems to faulter. some teams are just trying to keep it together under normal conditions. and then there is Ferrari reliability, which again is an after effect of having the best and most highly paid technical team out there...
but also money is not everything...if it were Toyota would be winning the championship
anyways, i think it is a part of the sport that must be accepted, these rule changes. with it being the mostly widely seen sports event, and also quite possibly the most commercial, it can't be avoided. sad but true...
anyways, it always manages to work itself out. hopefully.
10-24-04, 11:43 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by Snrub
As for the little teams, most of the new rules are not intended to make any difference to them. The provision that the little teams will be allowed to run transitional rev limited 3L V10s while the others have to switch to 2.4Ls is the first rule that will truely help the little guys. Limiting the revs of a 3L will put them on the right track to last the require distance and have competitive power output. Hopefully we'll see Jordan and Minardi a little more competitive then they currently are. Let's be honest, Minardi in particular is a joke this year.
And its absolutely retarded. That's like asking Tiger Woods to play golf with low-end golf clubs.
Anyone ever actually watch Schumacher closely when he drives? I have never seen any other driver in F1 today, that can drive that smoothly. Honestly, I'd love to see him in a BAR car. I think he'd still destroy everyone.
Blake
10-25-04, 11:01 AM
#14
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Yes the small teams will get to run with 3L engines for 2 years longer than the big teams. I strongly disagree that it is "retarded." It's "retarded" that the sport costs $400M to participate and Minardi has only $20M. A big part of the problem is that they're falling further behind every year because they simply don't have the resources. When the teams spend a mere $200M, Minardi and Jordan were able to put in respectable performances. Recall that not too long ago HHF nearly won the WDC in a Jordan! Privateers are vital to the sport's survival and while the manufacturers come and go the privateers are there for the love of racing.
MS is the best because he's the whole package, but I am absolutely convinced that he is not the fastest in raw pace. I think there are a few other drivers who can match or exceed him in that catagoy.
As for watching drivers do their work, ever watch JPM drive? It's nuts, the guy's car control is truely super human. Yesterday he put in the fastest sector 2 time of the race (up to that point) on his outlap on cold tires! First time I really took notice: Back at Nazereth in '99 he talked about how you could slide a car on an oval during his qualifying laps. His direct competition was PT who mocked the silly rookie, because as everyone knows you don't slide cars on an oval. PT has more laps at Nazereth than anyone else by probably 2X because Penske owned the track and had PT do thousands of laps there for testing. Guess who got pole?
MS is the best because he's the whole package, but I am absolutely convinced that he is not the fastest in raw pace. I think there are a few other drivers who can match or exceed him in that catagoy.
As for watching drivers do their work, ever watch JPM drive? It's nuts, the guy's car control is truely super human. Yesterday he put in the fastest sector 2 time of the race (up to that point) on his outlap on cold tires! First time I really took notice: Back at Nazereth in '99 he talked about how you could slide a car on an oval during his qualifying laps. His direct competition was PT who mocked the silly rookie, because as everyone knows you don't slide cars on an oval. PT has more laps at Nazereth than anyone else by probably 2X because Penske owned the track and had PT do thousands of laps there for testing. Guess who got pole?
10-25-04, 11:05 AM
#15
I guess I just have a grudge against JV because he didnt give me his autograph when I visited his restaurant in Montreal on vacation. It was stupid, he was right there and I was like, can I have your autograph? And hes like "Theres no time for that" He said that in french and walked away. I was like what the hell? I look over later and hes just standing around talking to suits.....
What an ignorant bastard, your telling me theres not enough time to sign a sheet of paper with your name for a fan? I think all that fame went to his head, maybe thats why he's not racing Formula 1 anymore. Probably got fired. But IMO it was a very bold move for him to claim he can beat MS "Anytime, Anywhere". Look where he is now.
Thanks for the stats Edv I accually didnt know his record or if his eleged 'crashes' were true. Now I know that hes not such a bad driver. Just Cocky I guess.
What an ignorant bastard, your telling me theres not enough time to sign a sheet of paper with your name for a fan? I think all that fame went to his head, maybe thats why he's not racing Formula 1 anymore. Probably got fired. But IMO it was a very bold move for him to claim he can beat MS "Anytime, Anywhere". Look where he is now.
Thanks for the stats Edv
I accually didnt know his record or if his eleged 'crashes' were true. Now I know that hes not such a bad driver. Just Cocky I guess.
10-25-04, 11:35 AM
#16
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The best thing to happen to open wheel was the CART switch to one engine, emoval of traction control and launch control, limited press to pass and limited shell desings. With the return of the wickerbill next year on ovals it's going to be a multi passing , nose to tail war out there. CART has done nothing but imporve, the only weak point is it's penalty system and lack of driver depth. Sebastian Bordias got away with murder at last years Aussie CART race. Guy is the modern CART's version of Zinardi.. it was no surprize when he lost his legs, it was just a surprize that he didn't take 3 other drivers with him ( re mike andretti at homestead a few years ago). I would love to see tracy in F1, given a solid ride, he would put MS into the unfamilar position of having to back off in a corner fight.. ( similar to the 97 JV SM battles at the end of the 97 season ).
What i find rediculous is the fact that in an attempt to bring everyone back to a level playing field they remove passive saftey systems, in particular down force and tyre grip levels. Change the enigne size, sure I can see that. in fact I'd love to see a return to the old late 80's turbo cars.. more technology from that one era trickled down to the consumer then everything else combined since. going to V8, especially a small V8 I can see more practical tech. filtering down to the end user? But to reduce down force in a way that will only effect the real racing in the corners and force the cars to run farther apart on the straightaways. To change tyre management to two sets of tyres per race is just asking for more crashes then actual racing.. F1 is like most European sports gov. bodies.. ( as a former nat ski team member I've had experience with the FIS ) is run by politicos or wannabie politicos that have lost touch with the viewers, racers and even the countires they do business with, they consider it YOUR honour to do business with them, not the other way around.. F1 is in a heap of trouble in the next few years.
What i find rediculous is the fact that in an attempt to bring everyone back to a level playing field they remove passive saftey systems, in particular down force and tyre grip levels. Change the enigne size, sure I can see that. in fact I'd love to see a return to the old late 80's turbo cars.. more technology from that one era trickled down to the consumer then everything else combined since. going to V8, especially a small V8 I can see more practical tech. filtering down to the end user? But to reduce down force in a way that will only effect the real racing in the corners and force the cars to run farther apart on the straightaways. To change tyre management to two sets of tyres per race is just asking for more crashes then actual racing.. F1 is like most European sports gov. bodies.. ( as a former nat ski team member I've had experience with the FIS ) is run by politicos or wannabie politicos that have lost touch with the viewers, racers and even the countires they do business with, they consider it YOUR honour to do business with them, not the other way around.. F1 is in a heap of trouble in the next few years.
10-25-04, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Snrub
Yes the small teams will get to run with 3L engines for 2 years longer than the big teams. I strongly disagree that it is "retarded." It's "retarded" that the sport costs $400M to participate and Minardi has only $20M. A big part of the problem is that they're falling further behind every year because they simply don't have the resources. When the teams spend a mere $200M, Minardi and Jordan were able to put in respectable performances. Recall that not too long ago HHF nearly won the WDC in a Jordan! Privateers are vital to the sport's survival and while the manufacturers come and go the privateers are there for the love of racing.
As for watching drivers do their work, ever watch JPM drive? It's nuts, the guy's car control is truely super human. Yesterday he put in the fastest sector 2 time of the race (up to that point) on his outlap on cold tires! First time I really took notice: Back at Nazereth in '99 he talked about how you could slide a car on an oval during his qualifying laps. His direct competition was PT who mocked the silly rookie, because as everyone knows you don't slide cars on an oval. PT has more laps at Nazereth than anyone else by probably 2X because Penske owned the track and had PT do thousands of laps there for testing. Guess who got pole?
As for watching drivers do their work, ever watch JPM drive? It's nuts, the guy's car control is truely super human. Yesterday he put in the fastest sector 2 time of the race (up to that point) on his outlap on cold tires! First time I really took notice: Back at Nazereth in '99 he talked about how you could slide a car on an oval during his qualifying laps. His direct competition was PT who mocked the silly rookie, because as everyone knows you don't slide cars on an oval. PT has more laps at Nazereth than anyone else by probably 2X because Penske owned the track and had PT do thousands of laps there for testing. Guess who got pole?
The whole sport is about technology. Technology costs money. If you can't afford to keep up, then why would you put a damper on everyone else?
Its also about the combination of driver and car. The best deserve to win. You don't handicap the best so that the mediocre can win. Thats not very sporting. You might as well go to spec cars if you're going to do that. Or just merge with CART.
Blake
10-25-04, 05:46 PM
#18
I started watching F1 in the late 70's - yes, I am that old - it has always been about technology, about who has the best overall package and about who can come up with the most radical ideas. Anyone remember the Tyrrell P34, 6 wheeler? 
I do not mind certain regulations, or the elimination of certain driver aids. But the 'lack' of on track action is still only a small problem with F1. The FIA makes it sound like its the only issue.
Like Doridori said, the problems with F1 are much more far reaching than these
bogus changes they keep trying to implement. There is way too much self interest by the F1 bosses. That is the real issue.
--------
About JV: I used to like JV. When he came I wanted nothing more than for him to kick Damon Hill's ***. But when things did not go as well, he became an ***, which people called 'outspoken'
I think Frank Williams saw something that he didn't like, why else dump a World Champion. Why bitch and moan when you knew BAR was going to have growing pains. MS, no matter how cocky he appears has never critized his team for lack of effort or anyting else. Why call Jenson a weak teammate, when we all knew he was a good driver?
Nobody expected him to be like his father, but we just kind of assumed he would be.
I do not mind certain regulations, or the elimination of certain driver aids. But the 'lack' of on track action is still only a small problem with F1. The FIA makes it sound like its the only issue.
Like Doridori said, the problems with F1 are much more far reaching than these
bogus changes they keep trying to implement. There is way too much self interest by the F1 bosses. That is the real issue.
--------
About JV: I used to like JV. When he came I wanted nothing more than for him to kick Damon Hill's ***. But when things did not go as well, he became an ***, which people called 'outspoken'
I think Frank Williams saw something that he didn't like, why else dump a World Champion. Why bitch and moan when you knew BAR was going to have growing pains. MS, no matter how cocky he appears has never critized his team for lack of effort or anyting else. Why call Jenson a weak teammate, when we all knew he was a good driver?Nobody expected him to be like his father, but we just kind of assumed he would be.
10-25-04, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by infinitebass
Yeah, I've watched JPM drive. He's no where near as smooth or relaxed in the cockpit.
Regarding the costs, even the large teams feel it's getting out of control. None of the FIA changes discussed here will to do much about that. Note that on the weekend the manufacturers came up with a testing agreement without Ferrari that would drastically reduce costs. Test days would be limited to 10 per season but Friday would be a pure test day. Ferrari was not invited because they have a clear testing advantage and obviously would not agree to such things.
Regarding removal of grip, the proper way to slow the cars is to reduce all aspects rather than simply one. Consider the extreme situation, that being the IRL flat to the floor racing. It stinks pure and simple.
Regarding Bourdais in Surfer's last year, that was a racing thing pure and simple. I strongly disagree with suggestions otherwise. As for Zanardi I have always been extremely vocal on his recless racing tactics, which fortunately never came to bear, although he nearly killed Andretti. During his second stint in CART he seemed to change his ways and his accident had nothing to do with earlier recklessness.
I hadn't heard about Champ Car's oval aero changes for '05. Further info or link?
Last edited by Snrub; 10-25-04 at 11:17 PM.
10-25-04, 11:33 PM
#20
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it would have been racing at surfers if their was no history behind it.. but everyone knew that ' something' stupid was going to happen at the front, just didn't know it was going to be that much of a dog bullocks.. But Kharma prevailed in the end.
The oval aero chage was discussed during the first or second oval race.. they actually went into some detail with it on TSN's broadcast. They stated that it was a change for the following year, I think it's a good idea, i loved that type of racing, 4 passes in one lap of Mich. was the common and no one got hurt.. great stuff.
THE FIA is not really in controll anymore, the more you look at it, the more you realize that the big F1 teams are the ones with ALL the stroke, they have it written right into thier contracts.. and they scram like little anime school girls when a rule change is proposed that would hurt ' thier ' interest's.. it was NEVER about the fans, even in the early days, maybe in the Jackie Stewart era the fans did matter but really unless you were some eurotrash well to do, fob, you really didn't haven't a clue and no one cared/cares.. most fans are fans of a ' team' not fans of ' F1' as a race series...
The oval aero chage was discussed during the first or second oval race.. they actually went into some detail with it on TSN's broadcast. They stated that it was a change for the following year, I think it's a good idea, i loved that type of racing, 4 passes in one lap of Mich. was the common and no one got hurt.. great stuff.
THE FIA is not really in controll anymore, the more you look at it, the more you realize that the big F1 teams are the ones with ALL the stroke, they have it written right into thier contracts.. and they scram like little anime school girls when a rule change is proposed that would hurt ' thier ' interest's.. it was NEVER about the fans, even in the early days, maybe in the Jackie Stewart era the fans did matter but really unless you were some eurotrash well to do, fob, you really didn't haven't a clue and no one cared/cares.. most fans are fans of a ' team' not fans of ' F1' as a race series...
10-26-04, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by doridori-rx7
i loved that type of racing, 4 passes in one lap of Mich. was the common and no one got hurt.. great stuff.
Ferrari might think the money is out of control, but I highly doubt that is going to stop them from spending it.
The only way to even it out is cap the amount of money spent, so if that's what they're trying to achieve, then that's what they need to do. As opposed handicapping a few teams and a few drivers.
Blake
10-26-04, 10:41 AM
#22
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FIA nees to grow a set of ***** and a set a lawyers with *****, to kill any contractual objections that rear up everytime they look to change things. Start over completely, new rules for everything, geared to inclued other, brilliant but maybe not as well funded teams, I can think of a few, Courage, the dutch? French? team that has a budget 1/8th the size of Audi, yet has been keep pace and in the case of the last ALMS race, beat the R8's out for the pole.
Now that Ford has put tail between legs and run, two teams are pretty much dead, jordan and Jaguar.. so that leaves how many actual cars on the field? it's all just so much pretentious crap on every level of the organizeation. Now with races in Countries like China with it's HUGE human rights abuses.. what does that tell the Chineese and the rest of the world? to me the F1 just gave the rest of the world that is trying to get china to stop, the finger. The more I've thought about it , the more I can really live without F1, in any form. I enjoy the CART seystem now, owned and operated by racers.. trying hard to give the fans what they want.
Now that Ford has put tail between legs and run, two teams are pretty much dead, jordan and Jaguar.. so that leaves how many actual cars on the field? it's all just so much pretentious crap on every level of the organizeation. Now with races in Countries like China with it's HUGE human rights abuses.. what does that tell the Chineese and the rest of the world? to me the F1 just gave the rest of the world that is trying to get china to stop, the finger. The more I've thought about it , the more I can really live without F1, in any form. I enjoy the CART seystem now, owned and operated by racers.. trying hard to give the fans what they want.
10-26-04, 06:23 PM
#23
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CART is good, but F1 is called F1 for a reason...whether or not they are living up to the potential of the most technologically advanced, skilled, and fastest racing series in the world is up to debate...
yeah, what needs to stops are things like Button (or rather his agent and whoever else is pulling the strings) saying he doesn't like the situtation at BAR, Honda says WTF? and then everyones lawyers just agreeing with whatever their employeer has to say...
yeah, what needs to stops are things like Button (or rather his agent and whoever else is pulling the strings) saying he doesn't like the situtation at BAR, Honda says WTF? and then everyones lawyers just agreeing with whatever their employeer has to say...
10-28-04, 04:41 PM
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My washing machine is the most advanced in the world.. it's still boring and does the same thing as less expensive and lass pertentious washing machines... speed is overrated, all it means is that your frame rates per min go through the roof and continuity is subject to more and more tape play backs. besides F1 going 210 and cart going 190 is hardly a big difference. F1 has all those fancy computers to control the power, so the driver is almost a non entity for most of the time. How often in the final 15 laps of an F1 race are you expecting to actually see a driver error ? not too often given the controls they have, Cart is very different having done away with a substatial ammount of diver assist systems.
10-28-04, 04:56 PM
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Eh, are you comparing top speeds? That's utterly retarded.
Top speeds don't matter, they can simply be changed with some gearing. What matters is how fast they get around the track.
A local track (here in Texas) is host to many events with Ferrari's, Porsche's, Vipers, etc. All of those hit 180 mph top, right? Want to know who holds the record for the fastest lap? A guy I know who races....shifter carts.
And CART is all about the driver, yes. But F1 is about TECHNOLOGY AND drivers. How are you supposed to push the limits of technology when everyone uses the same engine, the same chassis, etc?
Blake
Top speeds don't matter, they can simply be changed with some gearing. What matters is how fast they get around the track.
A local track (here in Texas) is host to many events with Ferrari's, Porsche's, Vipers, etc. All of those hit 180 mph top, right? Want to know who holds the record for the fastest lap? A guy I know who races....shifter carts.
And CART is all about the driver, yes. But F1 is about TECHNOLOGY AND drivers. How are you supposed to push the limits of technology when everyone uses the same engine, the same chassis, etc?
Blake