krgoodwin

I never needed to do it myself but years ago (10 or so) people from the 240SX scene would tell guys just to being a letter from Nissan stating the SR20 never came in the 240SX to Canadian Tire and get a hot rod test. Maybe there was more to it but that's all I remember them saying.

It's not quite that simple any more either. The levels tested to depend on chassis model year and engine model year.

http://www.ontario.ca/driving-and-ro...? | Ontario.ca

Test levels can be found here for any interested:

https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net...eanguideen.pdf

IPWinsor

iTrader: (2)

Its my turn to run the gauntlet of the Ontario Liberals Stupid Drive Clean program. Heck, even BC (who were the first province with emissions testing ) have disbanded their program.

Anyways, my FD has a PFC, a resonator in place of the cat, the air pump was removed, and I have a complete block-off plate kit installed. It might have a mild streetport; not sure. So I guess I am in big trouble. Fortunately, I have all the parts except a cat.

So, is my route to a sticker for 2 more years as simple as buying a cat, re-installing the air pump and the emissions gizmos, and getting a conditional fail? Or is it more complicated than that?

Marco (thewird): if you are reading, how bad will this mess with my PFC setup? Should I have the car re-tuned before the test, or just go as-is and then undo all the changes after I get my sticker?

Thanks

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

I don't mean to jack the thread, but I've got a related question.

I might be moving into the province of Ontario in a few years. Right now my FB is plated in Quebec where there's no emissions testing so I've got the RB "Street Port" dual-long-primaries Exhaust system, no cats, no air pump, no rat's nest, no ACV, no *anything* and a carb that's modded to the point where even if any of that was in place there's no chance in hell I could pass.

It's an '84, so some places I see say that it'd be exempt. But others say that you've got to pass whatever the emissions standards were when the car was new. Some places say I have to fail once and pay some money then be alright. Does anyone know the regulations well enough to tell me how this is going to work? Will I need to install a cat? Will I need to pass at least once to register it in Ontario? Can I get a "conditional" pass?

I'm kind of concerned. I really don't want to have to buy a whole new exhaust system (a single-pipe one) and a cat, and swap on a stock nikki, and add back the air pump and all that crap to register my car. But I also don't want to leave my car behind when I switch provinces.

Any help?

Jon

IPWinsor

iTrader: (2)

All cars 1987 and earlier are Drive Clean exempt.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I decided to just call the DriveClean place and ask. You're right that it's exempt from emissions testing, but by provincial law it does need to have a catalytic converter installed if it had one from the factory. If an "emissions compliance" officer finds out it doesn't have a cat, there's a large fine involved apparently. Since it doesn't have to go into the drive clean place at all, the chances of me running into an emissions compliance officer out in the wild is probably pretty low, but it's worth knowing about.

She also couldn't tell me if having a cat on there was part of the safety check. In Quebec it is, but I hear that in Ontario the safety check garages aren't directly run by the government, just licensed by them. So if I'm lucky I can find a mechanic who doesn't mind forgetting to check for the presence of one if it's required.

Cheers,

Jon

codywelshrx7

iTrader: (14)

IPWindsor I had quite the time getting my to pass. I have full block off kit and have the air pump hooked directly to my midpipe before the cat. I have 2 cats installed one is a vibrant and the other magnaflow. I also had my airpump hooked directly to my battery with a switch as well. After doing all this I passed with flying colours.

If you plan to keep the car for awhile I would buy a straight mid pipe weld in 2 magnaflow cats and hook air pump directly to them.

Cost would be about

100$ for midpipe
200$ for 2 cats
60$ for welding

360$ total and your good for etest's for awhile or you could risk it with one cat and maybe get away with it.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

Usually there is a visual inspection of safety and emissions components - even here in Alberta with an out-of-province inspection, despite the fact once you're here, loads of @$$holes with diesel pickups "roll coal", and thanks to the lack of emissions testing, it doesn't get penalized.

As codywelshrx7 points out, you can add a high-flow cat (or two, but one should satisfy the visual inspection requirement) fairly inexpensively, and since you don't have to test, it needn't hit all the marks for CO, NOx, and HC anyway - although it should run cleaner than nothing at all, and with modern high-flow cats, the impact on performance should be minimal, if any. I replaced my RB midpipe/resonator with a 3" Magnaflow cat, and it makes almost no difference to performance - the only noticeable change was that it made power up to 8700rpm with the resonator, and now runs out of breath at about 8500-8600.

sctRota

iTrader: (2)

This hasn't personally been my experience however, this was the case with a car that came in with its sticker pulled and forced to do a retest within a few days. Owner of the car said that Ontario MTO uses heat guns on your cats to see if they are actual cats or fakes.

I have been pulled over by the MTO once and they really have no clue what a rotary emission system is supposed to look like except for knowing if you have a cat. I personally, do not like to play smart *** with them and have swapped in a magnaflow high flow cat and it actually has me burning much cleaner than before which I do find quite amusing

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

JON..The places I go to just make sure that the exhaust has no leaks if it is emissions exempt.
Along with the other normal stuff,like no holes to the cabin,brakes,lights,horn,wipers..etc,etc.

If you get stuck,PM me.
By the way that place is no longer a restaurant!..pizza?

CloudPump

iTrader: (2)

For the record:

Drive Clean is not a Liberal program, it was introduced by the Conservatives.

-Geoff

CloudPump

iTrader: (2)

I still don't understand why everyone tries so hard to pass, I've been happily failing for years and keep on getting my conditional passes like clockwork.

-Geoff

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

^^It really only matters if you want to sell the car, doesn't it? Unless they require you to do "repairs" up to a limit for each conditional pass -?

CloudPump

iTrader: (2)

Correct, passing only matters in a title transfer. There is no repair cost limit or conditional passes allowed when selling a vehicle. This is to prevent one person from selling their trouble-car to someone else.

For plate renewals there is no limit on conditional passes and you do not have to do any repairs to your vehicle if any single repair would exceed the $450 limit on repairs.

The techs that do my drive cleans have no idea how a rotary works and every two years I tell them that I'd need new rotor housings to even begin to come in line with the expected standards. They then go price out a new pair of housings from Mazda (way over $450) and I happily wander over to Service Ontario and get my new sticker.

I'm up for a Drive Clean again this year and I'm doing the same thing again, as I always do.

-Geoff

Neo

iTrader: (4)

I guess I'll be doing that this year. Conditional pass it is.

Rathmar

iTrader: (8)

Conditional pass sound a fair bit easier than finding someone for a fake one.

RXeckless

iTrader: (11)

For all you RHD's in Ontario.
A Grey Market Vehicle Form must be submitted to register a grey market vehicle with Drive Clean.
A grey market vehicle is a motor vehicle, up to and including model year 1999, imported into Canada from a country other than the United States, and manufactured to emission standards that at the time of manufacture were less stringent than those applicable to the same or similar categories of new vehicles in Canada.
Only gasoline vehicles of model year 1988 to 1999 OR diesel vehicles of model year 1998 to 1999 can be grey market vehicles for Drive Clean testing purposes. For testing purposes, if a vehicle was manufactured in 1999 or earlier, the model year is deemed to be 1980.
Vehicles of model year 2000 or newer cannot be classified or tested as grey market vehicles in the Drive Clean program.

If you need this Grey Market Vehicle Form.pdf pm me with a legit email, the forum will not allow PDF's above a 100K

CloudPump

iTrader: (2)

Very correct.

I had to register with Drive Clean years ago because my vehicle is RHD and falls under the grey market testing.

-Geoff

RXeckless

iTrader: (11)

I passed my last test, so now I have a exception. Time will tell ..... I'm due in May!, I'll see if I get a notice with my new plate sticker.

maverick_0111

iTrader: (14)

Do not email that form. Every application form has it's own Case ID# (top right corner). If people need the form, they should call Drive Clean. From there, Drive Clean will either fax or email the application form to you with your own specific Case ID#.

real1st

iTrader: (3)

You are right, it was implemented by the provincial Conservatives during the Mike Harris years.

However, the use and efficacy of the program has been proven to be unnecessary based on the cars that are being sold today, and the improvements to automobile emission standards.

Even the Conservatives believe that it should be scrapped. It was not originally implemented to make money, to be a business. The Liberals have turned it into that, and continue to allow drivers to be held hostage to Drive Clean.

Drive Clean is unnecessary. Liberals will never abolish it, simply because they like to see themselves as 'environmentally aware' when really they enjoy the millions of dollars the program brings into their coffers, which can be spent for their pet projects and ridiculous private contracts.

real1st

iTrader: (3)

Those conditional passes cost you more than a standard pass. If you do not mind paying more, there are plenty of ways to get around Drive Clean.

CloudPump

iTrader: (2)

Drive Clean brings exactly $0.00 to the Liberal Coffers and exactly $0.00 of Drive Clean money has been spent on pet projects and private contracts.

By law, Drive Clean must be revenue-neutral. It is not allowed to turn a profit. While this has not been the case, Drive Clean HAS turned a profit, none of the money is allowed to be spent by the government, it is being held in trust.

I'm not defending Drive Clean or saying it's useful. I have actively called and emailed my MPP asking for it's abolishment. But I will clear up misconceptions and mistruths about the program (IE: it's a liberal program and they're generating revenue out of it).

-Geoff

CloudPump

iTrader: (2)

The test for the conditional pass costs the same as any other Drive Clean retest.

It's the other steps in between test 1 and test 2 that costs an hour of shop labour (your results may vary).

I don't mind paying $35 for test 1, ~$100 for a pointless diagnostic and $17.50 for test 2 every two years to be legal without "getting around" Drive Clean. This is an annual cost of $76.25. I can't even fill the 7's gas tank for that.

-Geoff

real1st

iTrader: (3)

You said: "Drive Clean brings exactly $0.00 to the Liberal Coffers and exactly $0.00 of Drive Clean has been spent on pet projects and private contracts."

You said: "By law, Drive Clean must be revenue-neutral"

Your statements show a lack of understanding of reality.

According to many reports, "The program, which requires residents in half of Ontario to get their vehicles checked for emission leaks, took a hit this week when it was revealed it’s running a $19 million surplus." [http://www.lfpress.com/2013/10/30/dr...rivers-fuming]

Just because the "the Liberal government maintains the revenue is neutral" does not mean that it is actually true. Did you receive a check/rebate from that surplus? Are you seriously arguing that the Liberal provincial government should be taken at their word?

To further my point, the provincial Auditor's Report [who is actually and more likely neutral, rather than being partisan] "suggested that the government could face legal issues over the surplus revenue generated from Drive Clean. Drive Clean is supposed to be revenue neutral but it generates millions in fees for the government. In 2012, alone, Drive Clean earned $11 [19 in total] million in profits." [http://www.thestar.com/autos/.../its...nprogram.html]

Just because something should be or could be does not make it so. Your comments are evidence of being blinded by your political ideology and not the facts. Educate yourself.

You do not have to be a supporter of the Conservative party or any other party to see that Drive Clean is a revenue generating institution, that is a cash grab.

Unless of course you believe the Auditor General, and about 30 news reporting agencies are all frabricating lies to discredit the flawless and never tainted reputation of the provincial Liberal Government. -laughs-

I love posts where a person says something clearly retarded.

real1st

iTrader: (3)

Also as a side note, before you 'clear up any misconceptions and mistruths' ensure you are factually correct. You are arguing that because Drive Clean is SUPPOSED to be revenue neutral that it is, that arguement is ridiculous.

Whether or not you support Drive Clean or not makes no difference.

The facts are:
1. Drive Clean is NOT revenue neutral.
2. The surplus that is generated yearly by that is used by the governing LIBERALS.

The Auditor General disagrees with you, and so would many others on here.

Keep your insights to yourself unless you have a factual basis for your 'clearing up' of mistruths and misconceptions.

You were right about Conservatives bringing in the program, however it has long since served its purpose, admitted by Conservatives. Which is why they have continued their efforts to end it. However the Liberals who benefit from the surplus it provide argue they are 'protecting the air' for Ontarians.

If you can not see the error in your arguments, you will believe anything.