Well, it's been expensive, and quite a bit of work but my motor is done.

Here are the pics: http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...build/?start=0

 

yay, looks nice. and it didn't really take you that long (assuming you were doing other things in life, but if not then yeah). haha.
gotta love that duplicolor high heat paint, i like using that stuff.

so you getting anything new for engine management?

 

Kevin..you Gonna get that Thing in before it Snows?

 

EGADS man!! What is that clutch fan doing on there?!?

Nice oil pump gasket LOL

Lookin good

 

very nice, what did u do to clean all the plates and rotors?

BTW. u have my ideal gurage

 

Please enlighten us as to why you would not use a good condition clutch fan?

 

Sorry, its my preferance to not use a clutch fan....they're so big...and awkward...take up room bleh. I prefer an electric pusher fan mounted in front of the rad. Cleans up the look of the engine bay.

 

Maybe Broken in.

 

Not my garage, it's a good friend of mines, he just bought a GSL SE in the Summer, so I figured he'd want to help with mine, so when his blows he can rebuild his. I really can't thank him enough for letting me use the shop. It has EVERYTHING, mill, lathe, sheet metal break, shear, MIG, TIG, and Stick welders and a pit, I think it's anyones IDEAL garage. The new one they are building is going to be Way bigger About 4-5000 Sq-Ft.

Thanks for the compliments

Kevin

And Joe, I only learned how to install a oil pan gasket from the best.

 

Ah the clutch fan debate....

A couple of good reasons:

1. E-fan is more efficiently designed: Moves more air per energy consumed.
2. Rotating assy of a clutch fan is heavier: Another side of the efficiency calc, but more rotating inertia = slower revs.
3. Mounting an e-fan between the inlet/outlet on the rad = better cooling with the fan on (air concentrated on the hot side), and better cooling with the fan off (more air flow through the rad).

Bad reasons include aesthetics, avoiding heat soak by leaving it on after turning the car off, and "'cause I said so."

 

Jamie, I have no problems with slow revs, I have a 8-10lb flywheel, if it revs any quicker I might need to get a taller first gear. But a E-fan is in the works, just need to find one that I like, and dosen't draw 30amps or more.

 

Looking good Kevin.

 

You probably won't be able to find a fan like that. All things being equal (blade design and shrouding) it takes the same amount of power mechanically or electrically to move a certain amount of air. E-fans draw high currents because that's the amount of energy needed to move 2000+ CFM of air through the rad.

The GM (Pontiac 6000, Oldsmobile, Grand Prix/Am, etc.) fan seems to be a good design that's reliable, cheap and doesn't draw huge currents. It's still going to pull 50A to spin up but seems to run around 15A or so.

 

The dual fans from the mystique and contour are a decent fit and draw (once in motion) around 20 amps....

Nice lookin' motor though...shiny

 

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html...-electric.html

Only Draws 28 Amps, I'm sure it's expensive, but damn will it cool my car down. Might be a bit large however.

 

Heheh you used the same color scheme that frank did.

I used to run an E-fan, then I upgraded to a stock clutch fan and shroud

For n/a cars, efan is fine. For turbo cars, rotational inertia is irrelevant since we are struggling for traction in the low gears anyways. The clutch fan is nice for front mount cars where there is already an obstruction to cooling. It also doesn't load up the electrical system which is in bad condition in some cars. I would never go back to efan, nor would I recommend it to anyone with a T2.

I didn't have a garbage efan either, I had one of those flex-a-lite black magic ones with built-in shroud.

Also, regarding system efficiency, the mechanical clutch fan draws energy directly from the belt system of the engine. An electrical fan has 2 extra stages, a DC electric motor, and the alternator, neither of which are anywhere near 100% efficient.

 

What are you saying Nik, my motor is destined for failure?

Also I should thank Jim, Nik, and Joe, for fielding my I'm sure sometime retarded questions.

 

From the link posed to the Flex-A-Lite fan:

Yeah, and I have some beach front property in Arizona for sale...

 

You'll be installing the clutch fan with mine. :p

 

The GM fans are really the way to go, for a couple of reasons:

1. Cheapness
2. GM WAY overkills cooling systems. Test specs are full load/full grade, AC on, huge outside temps, etc, etc, etc. I've also had good luck with 95+ cavi/sunfire fans.

As for current draw, The princess auto ammeter in Awesome shows ~30 on startup, and less than 10 while running.

Secondary arguements: Fan efficiency is hugely dependant on distance between fan blade tip and shroud. An efan allows this distance to be significantly smaller than a mech fan can.

With a non-cross flow rad, and a shroud, you can think of the RX-7 cooling system like so: Hot coolant flows through the fitting-side of the rad. Next to no flow goes through the non-fitting side. Cooling air flows through an area of the rad essentially equivalent to the size and position of the operning in the shroud. So your hottest coolant goes through stagnant air, and less flow hits the most air.

By going to 1 efan moved over between the fittings, your system eficiency goes way up, as airflow is concentrated on the hottest, most flowing coolant. This technique allows you to run 2 efans and bias your oil cooler and intercooler to the side of the rad that has the least coolant flow.

Next, all things being equal, mech fan = e-fan, but the RX-7 fan was designed more than 20 years ago, pre CFD, almost pre Comadore 64, while the very lucky among us MIGHT have been playing the Supermario/duckhunt combo cartridge. Pulling a fan out of newer car will net you a much more efficient fan, electric or mechanical.

Finally, Nik will mention that e-fan equiped turbo cars will kick the fan on on the highway. So will clutch-fan equipped cars, it is just an analogue change rather than a step. In general, once you go above 2 coolers (Air, oil, rad) ram air effect virtually ceases, and you rely on the fan at all times.

Before anyone asks for sources: This all comes from Ms. Feds, who spent 5 years designing, testing, building, etc. engine oil, water, and charge air coolers, so the data is good.

 

Well frankly, I won't be worrying about Water temps, well hopefully, I will be going with a stock tmic converted to W2A, so not much blockage of the Koyo will be going on there. But this is becomming a very informative thread.

 

I see you've done more research since we last talked I am willing to accept, even try myself, a new and improved efan system. I personally don't like the bulkiness and innacessibility of the stock fan+shroud, just that it's the only thing i've tried that does the job.

So you are suggesting running a smaller efan positioned off to the passenger side(in the FC that's where the inlet/outlet is on the rad). What effect would it have if I kept my stock fan shroud, and put a piece of carboard to cover the slower flowing, stagnant half of my radiator, thus forcing all the airflow from the big clutch fan to flow through the hottest part(obviously the total airflow would not be as great)?

I suspect the FD actually has something like you are suggesting incorporated into it, since it has 2 fans side to side one of which has an extra blade? I just don't remember if the stock FD rad has both fittings on one side and is non-crossflow.

So maybe with Ms. Fed's help, and your ingenuity, we can come with with a better Efan solution? Because I think you are agreeing with me now that just slapping a fan on there right in the middle is no better(cooling) than the stock clutch fan, and in turbo cars can actually be insufficient at times.

So the improved system would have to:
1. Perform as well if not better cooling, in all driving conditions, than the stock fan
2. Be reasonable to install, not requiring complex ductwork/etc
3. Be priced reasonably

 

As for fan selection, I think it will be difficult to get something sized appropriately for big turbo rotaries. Not too many GM cars are making 400 whp, not too many of them are turbo, and none of them are rotary (all factors which greatly enhance required heat dissipation). So we'll definately have to rely on some ingenuity to make them work.

 

I think it is quite simple, Mechanical draw and Electrical/mechanical draw have to equal the same energy to do the same amount of work all things being equal so this whole e-fan debate makes no sense to me I had a Black Majic fan on my car that way said to be the best... and let me tell you that my temps on my Greddy Gauges were about 20 deg C more than it was with my stock clutch fan. When I returned my car to stock trim to sell it, I went back to clutch fan, and my temps are 20 deg C lower. and the black majic fan is supposed to be 16 years newer than the design on my car... and yet still doessn't do the job as well.
But this is a debate that has been going on for years... the only plus I can see is that an E-Fan does make the engine bay cleaner... aside from that it is all preference.

 

Nice job Kevin...I knew you could do it, Good Luck....