Aviator 902S

But if you gotta pay $8 to $10 for a filter it might as well be a top of the line unit like AC delco, Purolator or Napa Gold (Wix) rather than a chintzy Fram cross-dressing as a "Mazda" filter. If you're going to settle for crappy filters you may as well buy a Fram from Canadian Tire for $5 rather than going to Mazda and paying $10 for what is exactly the same filter except for exterior color.

Buy what you want, it's your car. I'll continue to demand superior quality for mine.

#84Racing

Okay, guys in reality how many companies do you think make there own oil filters? You are probably dealing with 2-3 different actual suppliers that make all the different filters to the customers specs. For example, some ford rotors are made by a company called Aimco, some roller rocker arms made by Crane Cams have Ford or GM part numbers right on them! Most car makers outsource so much of there parts it amazing.

Aviator 902S

All true. Few if any manufacture their own filters. The oil filter study posted on this and other forums found only five manufacturers in North America. In descending order of quality they were AC Delco, Wix, Purolator, Champion and Fram. The latter two were not recommended. All others were simply re-labelled filters produced by the above manufacturers.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with an auto manufacturer outsourcing components in this way and putting their own labels on them, as long as relative quality is in line with the price and with what customers expect when they buy a product touted as OEM.

The problem with using cheap filters is that a) even after the warranty expires somebody is still going to own that car--- it just won't last as long as it otherwise would have if run with quality filters, and b) dealers charge double the price that a customer would pay for the same filter at Canadian Tire or Walmart. I didn't realize that blue paint was so expensive.

10cc

I race my streetported 1st gen. I have always used the Mazda Blue filters. I change oil and filter after every race weekend. Like FEDS said, if you change the filter often, you won't have a problem.

Now to the math. Filter - about $13.00. Engine - about $2000.00

Cheers!

Finally! An engineer speaking... yah!

Cheers!

you mean this study?

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/

Here is a little excerpt I pulled from the page

"SAE Tests


All filters have to pass SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) tests to prove that they can truly filter out small enough particles. There are two tests available for automobile engine oil filters. All filters must pass the J806 test, but the new J1858 is much more meaningful. Currently the J1858 test is optional. Really, it's a way for high-end filter manufacturers to show off their great filters.

The SAE J806 test uses a single-pass test, checking for contaminant holding capacity, size of contaminant particles trapped, and ability to maintain clean oil. As an amendment of the J806 test, the multi-pass test also looks for filter life in hours, contaminant capacity in grams, and efficiency based on weight. The efficiency of the filter is determined only by weight through gravimetric measurement of the filtered test liquid. Typical numbers for paper filter elements are 85% (single pass) and 80% (multi-pass).

The SAE J1858 test provides both particle counting and gravimetric measurement to measure filter capacity and efficiency. Actual counts of contaminant particles by size are obtained every 10 minutes, both upstream (before the filter) and downstream (after the filter), for evaluation. From this data filtration ratio and efficiency for each contaminant particle size can be determined as well as dust capacity and pressure loss as a function of time. Typical numbers for paper element filters are 40% at 10 microns, 60% at 20 microns, 93% at 30 microns, and 97% at 40 microns"


So what more do you want to know? It filters. That is what a filter does and it does what it's job was intended to do. Yes there is a difference in build quality of a filter that costs 20 dollars versus the 5 dollar one. But if hte 5 dollar one can do what the 20 dollar one can do then the 5 dollar one wins in my book. And if you are going to tell me that the 5 dollar one will clog up sooner then the 20 dollar one then i think you need to re-evaluate the intervals at which you change your oil and filter and also reassess the condition of your engine and the intake filtering element for your car.

Aviator 902S

If you could count on the likes of Fram filters to never (ever) have the glue that binds them together fail and then pass crap, then the point you're making is valid--- as long as you change your oil every 3000 to 5000 miles. (Mine gets changed every 3000).

The problem is, these filters occasionally DO fail for this reason. I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to take this chance on my car.

Again, regarding the OEM (Mazda/ Fram) filter: It's a garden variety Fram sold for (more than) twice the price. Whay go to Mazda when the same filter is available elsewhere (during longer business hours to boot) for under $5?

mr.zoom

iTrader: (1)

BLACK13B,

Did you notice an "O"-ring instead of the flat "fram" design.

Mazdabation

iTrader: (9)

Dont know what speed shops you have out there but "Performance Improvements" here sells them......

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

There was no O-Ring other than the one pictured to prevent drain-back

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

I agree 100% with Aviator's replies..

The pics were posted for you guys to decide how you want to spend your money. They cost me closer to 10 bucks for one of these, when I could buy one at a different store (that has more open hours and more in stock) for less money and a different colour on the outside.

If I am paying this price, I can do one of two things. Save a few dollars to buy the exact same filter in a different colour, or continue to spend the same amount of money, on a different brand filter that isn't glued together.

If anyone wants to save copies of the pictures, feel free, I am hosting them on my own webspace right now and they will be taken offline sometime in the near future.

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone every pulled apart any other filters for our cars and measured them? The filters for our cars are quiet small so I thought it would be interesting. Today I pulled apart a Canadian Tire Formula 1 filter. It uses a synthetic media and on the SAE-J806 test it has a single pass filtering of 97% for particles 10-20 microns. The top and bottom are not metal, but it certainly did not come off easily. The two ends of the "ribbon" are held together with metal. The total length of the filter media was ~42" and it is 21/4" wide for a total surface area of 94.5 inches^2.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

snrub, which filter did you pull apart? at canadian tire there are two part numbers for FC's, a short fat one and a taller narrower one....

Amur_

Not around here you can't.

I spent some time last month playing phone tag with Kieswetter and Waterloo North and both came back with nothing. They cannot get the black ones. The Kieswetter parts guy did comment that he hadn't seen a black oil filter pass his way in about 5 years...

Aviator 902S

I'm not sure which filter you're referring to or who manufactures it, but here in the west Canadian Tire only stocks Fram, Motomaster, Quaker State and Valvoline filters. Both Quaker State and Valvoline are manufactured by Purolator, while the Motomaster is a Fram.

The filtering specs of 97% and 10-20 microns sound promising, but was that info from an independant test report, or merely printed on the box? Also, was this filter new or was it used up? Just wondering, because flaws in the glue and cardboard wouldn't rear their ugly heads until soaked in oil at both hot and freezing cold temps. When new and unused it would stand to reason that these or any other filters wouldn't come apart easily at all.

It's the oil soaking, temperature and viscosity extremes that cause bits of glue and paper on certain brands to become separated from the filter and clog oil passages. That's not to say all filters using glue and cardboard are bad--- purolator is a decent filter that uses that method of construction. But for filters that have a track record of failure with this type of construction it doesn't matter what the filtering efficiency of the element is if you happen to be the unlucky buyer who gets one that's flawed. And Fram filters have just such a track record.

Right now I'm running the Valvoline (Purolator) filter in my 1st gen. I'm not due for another oil change for at least another couple of months, but if I can remember I'll open this filter up next oil change and report my findings and measurements.

smnc

I used to use the Motomaster Formula 1's, but as far as I can tell, Candian Tire has discontinued them.

I too had disasembled one and found it to be a decent quality, for a good price. Last couple times I went to my local Canadian Tire they didn't have them and the parts desk said they're listed as no stock on the computer.

The filter is black and a Motomaster "Formula 1" branded product. I don't know who makes it. It's basically a "premium" filter upgrade to the stock "white" Motomasters

The testing was actually indipendantly verified, but Candian Tire used it for marketing purposes. The one I took apart was at about 3100kms and was in fine shape.

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

well, it seems it's going to be a hassle to get the black filters here in Canada unless you know a place to get them, or get them in bulk from the states. i personally am not too concerned. i use Castrol GTX oil, which does not cost much at all so i just change the oil quite often. i pretty much change the oil filter also everytime i do an oil change, even though i really don't need to. so i figure if endurance is the issue with the cheaper, or Canadian OEM filters, changing them often should be fine...

Maxthe7man

The formula 1 thats no longer availabe was actually a wix filter.
About the 2 listings at Canadian Tire for the FC, their books are wrong, thats a first gen filter they have listed as well for the FC, I have told CT about 971 times their book is wrong, but they don't seem to care...max

smnc

I guess that's explains why I liked it so much...
First the stop stocking MMO, then the Wix filters, plus the dizzy rotor and cap....

Grrr.... Stupid CRAPPY TIRE!

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

Damn, it's too bad they sell the Formula 1 filters. I bought over a year's supply of them so I just put on my last one yesterday. The 97% was what they stated on the box, but presumably if you run a SAE test it's standardized. I took the filter apart after using it, which actually was a real PITA because I got oil all over my gloves.

As for the incorrect book listing, our filters are the same as Proteges and Miatas, correct?

The white plain "motormaster" ones have a very low claimed single pass filtering percentage, which makes me not want to use them. Let me put this bluntly, I will be buying my next filter from Canadian Tire, which filter do you think I should get and keep in mind I'm not going to pay more than $6-7. The Fram units they sell are not ones I'm familiar with... Before you say anything, I don't like Mazda (sorry #84 or #01 now...) and it's inconvenient to go to them.

Aviator 902S

The Quaker state filters that Canadian Tire sells are actually Purolators, as are the Valvoline filters. Prices are $7 and $8 respectively. These two filter well and don't shed glue or cardboard. Plain white Motomasters are actually Frams, and the poorest quality Frams at that. Those are around $5.

01Racing

I still find it totally amazing that 23Racer and I have used Mazda filters in our race cars for years under far more extreme conditions than any street use, using 20w50 engine oil that can get up 240-250 degrees of oil temperature and never have a filter problem. As with pricing our parts manager will give any RX-7 Club member 15% off any Mazda parts you buy.

Feds

D'oh! Se what you guys did! Now we're down to 15% Sumbitches! Al, maybe you should post up your compression numbers for the year...

As an aside, thanks to Al's discount, 5 quarts of Mazda oil and a filter for my P5 comes in at like $23. It's this stuff that makes me use his dealership rather than the more-geographically-convenient Morningside Mazda. I get better prices there than I do at GM dealerships.

23Racer

Feds, get back to work. Seriously, I have used Mazda filters on my race engine for years. In fact the earlier engine was still doing 1:40's at Mosport with 165,000 km and I was revving it to 7800 each shift. The only thing that killed it was me pounding on it before it was warm at Shannonville.

My suggestion would be that everyone buy the filter that works best for them. I have no problems with the stock Mazda filter (blue or black) as the filtering capacity exceeds what we need. I have never blown one up with over 90 PSI of oil pressure and in Al's case over 250 degree oil temps. I would be more concerned about semi-dry cold start engine wear from performing too many oil changes from running crappy oil that breaks down too fast. Also all the crap that gets into your filler neck each time you change the oil.

I really recommend using the highest grade of motor oil you can afford. Buy as good of a filter that you can get your hands on and watch your oil temps and pressures like a hawk. This will have more effect on the life span of your engine than worrying about ultrafiltration devices.

Hell, lets end this thread and move on to a more interesting discussion on the relative merits of steel versus rubber valve stems.

error*

Heads up for all my fellow Calgary Rx7 owners. Bowness Auto carrys the Purolator brand. Just go for the regular ones, the premium are:
1. Just too expensive
2. May actual be for restrictive, flow wise and thats obviously what you want especially for turbo cars.

The best advice is, if you gonna go cheap on the filters, then go with shorter intervals of oil changes. i.e. - Frams ok just change your oil often maybe 3000-4000km instead of 4000-5000km. Doesn't really matter too much what oil filter you are using if your are changing your oil often. This was told to me by most of the techs at Northhill Mazda when I was apprenticing.