rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

Man, this is a tired old saw - that women and minorities are somehow oppressed in redneck Alberta - and one that bears no resemblance to reality. The reality is the prairie provinces (AB, SK, MB), have a long tradition of being progressive and out in front on women's rights - being the first governments in the world to extend women the vote, the first in the world to have women in the legislatures, and women judges. It is no coincidence either that the Famous Five who successfully campaigned, ultimately to the British Privy Council (predecessor to our own Supreme Court) to have women declared legal persons under the BNA were from the prairies - and it took place 13 years after women got the vote in provincial elections. Oh, but you say, women were given the vote federally only one year later, so Alberta and the other prairie provinces weren't that out in front - though of course federally, the vote was only extended to women who were wives, mothers or sisters of serving soldiers, which was really a move to ensure Borden would win the 1917 election on a platform supporting conscription, and less because of actually thinking women were equals.

The same is largely true with regards to minority rights in the prairie provinces, and in both cases is a direct result of the settlement history of the prairies: unlike Ontario, Quebec, the Maritimes, and to some extent BC, the Prairies were not settled early, and more relevantly, not settled by homogeneous cultural groups (ie, WASP's, or in the case of Quebec, french catholics). They therefore did not have much in the way of pre-existing cultural institutions, but were building a society from the ground up - one where due to the nature of small farms and largely rural communities, where it was patently obvious that women played a critical role in making the farm or a business a success, and didn't tie them to traditional roles so much. Similarly, there was much greater cultural diversity at an earlier stage of the game on the prairies - settlers of British/northern european extraction may have been the largest single group, but a majority actually came from other places - the Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Italy, and other parts of southern and eastern Europe, as well as a small but significant number of non-whites - mostly Asians brought in to work on the railways, but nevertheless getting them in early. Further, no group could really claim to be the dominant culture, and everyone was equal because everyone was starting from close to nothing, so the prairies have much more of a polyglot tradition. More recently, cities like Calgary that have double and tripled in size in the last 30-40 years have seen many of the new residents come from non-white, non-European backgrounds, mirroring the fact that most immigrants to Canada in that time frame are no longer white Europeans, and meaning that the opportunities to "get in on the ground floor" economically and culturally have been available to a much greater extent than probably anywhere else in Canada.

Certainly there was and still is racism and cultural intolerance in the west, but certainly NOT to the extent it is portrayed in the Liberal (and I use the capital L deliberately) media and the Liberal party, to which Ontarians seem to cleave with the same religious fervor as voters in Alberta vote for the provincial PC's, despite a ****-poor record on both governments parts relative to what could be achieved. I would in fact suggest that racism and intolerance is far more the province of those provinces with a strongly WASP background - like Ontario, the Maritimes, certainly Quebec, and BC - you certainly hear more of racial and cultural clashes between ethnic minorities and the police and other standard bearers of dominant cultural tradition than you do in the prairies.

In fact, to the extent to which Ontarians and others paint the western provinces with this redneck, intolerant stereotype they are reflecting their own special breed of intolerance, one that says "we are better than you", even though we know jack **** about you - classic of racism and other "we're better than they are" types of discrimination.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

HUH.. and here I was thinking ' being intolerant OF the intolerant was a good thing.. ', so next time I see a someone yelling racial slurrs be it ethnic or socially based, or a group of guys pestering a woman.. I'll remember "WWAD?", ( what would Alberta do..) and just let be, since I'm intolerant of that sort of thing and you say I shouldn't be.. It's there right to do unaccetable things and I should realize that..

as for the west, eg: "even though we know jack **** about you -".. I grew up in Prince George & used to train out of COP years later.. so I think I have at least a passing familiarity with 'the west.'

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

And as is ever the case "down east" to revert to generalizations myself, the real message is quickly papered over by tossing out more slurs, ignoring what goes on in your own backyard, and missing my point entirely that the oppression of women and minority ethnic and cultural groups by "the west" is a load of ... Liberal mythology. So your "intolerance of intolerance" is based on a false stereotype, and so does in fact constitute a variety of discrimination, whereby you judge a group of people based on a few individuals or a false image - a variety of discrimination that because it wraps itself in the politically correct flag of tolerance, thereby becomes its own justification. A neat tautology, but nevertheless based on a false assumption.

Aviator 902S

All true, racer. The problem is that as we all know, politics is a very touchy subject. I'm sure our good pal Amur knew this when he baited us by starting this thread, the sly S.O.B. .
And I jumped right in both feet first. Oh well, I'm up to my *** in alligators now so I might as well enjoy the ride.

When a particular group of voters has been weened on Canadian flag-waving, "east = good, west = redneck" diatribe, Liberal propaganda and "Conservatives-are-evil" rhetoric they don't take too kindly to being told they are wrong. And they are downright fearful of any development that just might upset the balance of power that they enjoy.

It is therefore easy for them to hate those who are sending the message, especially if said persons represent a group that has been branded by the Libs as the big, bad wolf.

Because of this, any and all slurs and name-calling bouts (the last refuge of a Liberal who has lost an argument. At least us non-libs only do this in retaliation to the same treatment) are considered fair game by them, and the attitude of "never give an inch" with regard to recognizing the truth will prevail every time. In short, these people don't want the truth and they certainly don't want change.

At the moment, they don't really have to worry about change because the only way that can happen is if Alberta (or Quebec) separates. Quebec won't separate as long as they continue to receive bribes from the feds and even in the very close referendum of 1995 the question put to voters duped them with the impression that Canada would still keep the gravy train running even after Quebec separated. Had the clarity law been in place prior to the vote the federalists would have won by a healthy marjin.

The Conservatives would do a better job in Ottawa given the opportunity, but at the end of the day the same flawed Charter of Rights and Freedoms would still be in place and the Liberal voters' tolerance of a Conservative government that represents all Canadians instead of only them would wear thin. The next election would see the Libs would once again rule the roost and feather their nests with our money and corruption and socialism would once again reign supreme.

So the end result of a Conservative majority would only be to prolong the inevitable. There's simply no reason for Alberta to stay, and more Albertans are beginning to realize this. And unlike Quebecers in 1995, the 40% of Albertans who curently want to separate answered the direct question--- and knew full well that if we separated all programs and money coming from Ottawa would cease.

This means that Alberta is a far greater separation threat than Quebec is, and it's a fact that doesn't set well with eastern Canadians who fully understand the implications. Sure, they hate us. But it's like a woman who married a man for his money and signed a pre-nup. She hates the guy, but in order to maintain her standard of living she needs him. If he leaves she'll have to go back to work and get by on far less than what she had before.

And so it goes with Alberta separation: if this happens, the loss of the 8.5B in net transfer payments from Alberta would only be the beginning of Ottawa's (and Canada's) financial woes. Also gone would be the revenue from (among other sources) income tax and GST formerly generated by three million Albertans.

Then, once Alberta's financial situation bloats (while eastern economies lag), Canadians sick of the Liberal bullshit would flock to Alberta. That three million Alberta population would balloon to 10 million, and the immigrants coming into Canada to replace them wouldn't be arriving fast enough to stave off the loss of income tax revenue for Ottawa. The rate of taxation in what's left of Canada would then have to increase to take up the slack.

Yup, if I were a dyed-in-the-wool Liberal living in Toronto I'd be scared shitless of this scenario unfolding. I'd immediately drop the Liberals in favour of the Conservatives in order to do my part to save Canada from itself.

Aviator 902S

LOL. Ok, I couldn't resist. This link pretty much sums it up and best (worst?) of all it's from a Toronto news columnist:

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Colum...05153-sun.html

The truth hurts. Read it and weep.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

Using an article from the SUN is like using a Richard Scary book as your city planning office manual. Useless.

However, When the Conservatives present a leadership and platform that's not socially stuck somewhere between texas and South Carolina and metally stuck in Utah then maybe they'd get into power.. THe liberals suck.. but there is no viable alternative. I guarentee harper would have us back in bed as the little yes man the big bully USA.. and personally I don't want that to ever happen..


"So your "intolerance of intolerance" is based on a false stereotype, and so does in fact constitute a variety of discrimination, whereby you judge a group of people based on a few individuals or a false image - a variety of discrimination that because it wraps itself in the politically correct flag of tolerance, thereby becomes its own justification. A neat tautology, but nevertheless based on a false assumption."


So far I've yet to come across an Albertan who would not rather join the extreme republican USA then be a part of this 'socialized and liberalized ' Canada.. Your Cross section of users here provide the data for my 'image'. So maybe look at your local user base instead of trying to blame the East for making assumptions.. all we can go on is what YOU people portray as your feelings and say on the subject.. Which has , in the last year or so pretty much sealed any thought of me ever going back out west (unless it's the the area around sea to sky.), personally your all a bunch ( based on information the rx7club members from alberta have portrayed to me ) a bunch of redneck *******.

Aviator 902S

[QUOTE=doridori-rx7]

Using an article from the SUN is like using a Richard Scary book as your city planning office manual. Useless.

Interesting comment, especially considering that one of the Sun's most vocal columnists is none other than ultra-Liberal flake Sheila Copps. You want useless journalism? Check out that Liberal propaganda machine, the CBC.

However, When the Conservatives present a leadership and platform that's not socially stuck somewhere between texas and South Carolina and metally stuck in Utah then maybe they'd get into power.

The problem is that this is exactly what the Liberal government wants you to believe. They've succeeded admirably. What's really disturbing is that you said you were a member of the Reform party, an organization that lobbied for a triple-E senate, responsible and accountable governing practices and representation of all Canadians--- traits that are similar to those of the current Conservatives and diametrically opposed to anything the Liberals stand for. And now you prefer to vote Liberal?

The liberals suck...

Finally something we can agree on...

but there is no viable alternative.

... but that was too good to last.

I guarentee harper would have us back in bed as the little yes man the big bully USA. and personally I don't want that to ever happen..

Yet another Liberal scheme--- teach all Canadians that the U.S. is the antichrist and that we Canadians are beyond reproach. The plan worked even more effectively than even the vision in Trudeau's wildest wet dreams.

I'll be the first to agree with you that many aspects of the U.S.' foreign policy is self-serving and unethical. And nobody likes to have to listen to the stereotypical American loudmouth bragging that "if it wasn't for us, y'all would be speaking German!"

But the fact remains that in spite of their flaws, ulterior motives and conflicts of interest they have done more to spread democracy to countries that had no hope in hell of ever having it than any other group of countries in the free world and continue to do so. They also (whether we like it or not) are the reason Canada's economy isn't completely decimated. 50% of all jobs in this country are the result of NAFTA and trade with the U.S.

Therefore, opening the doors for diplomacy and trade with the U.S. is the right thing to do in fact, it's the very least we can do considering that their military is looking out for us since our own is practically non-existent.

One more thing: If you think the U.S. is bad now, can you only imagine how fucked up it would be if they didn't have an elected senate? If the president could stay in power for more than two terms? What if there was no effective method of impeachment for presidents that really **** up? What if the U.S. government in power could twist the constitution in any way they wanted to serve their own personal whims?

"Damn, we're lucky to live in Canada! It's a good thing we have an elected senate! It's a good thing we can impeach our leaders when they are suspected of corruption! It's a good thing our PM can only serve a maximum of two terms! It's a good thing our Charter of Rights and Freedoms is bullet-proof! It's a g.... no, wait..."


So far I've yet to come across an Albertan who would not rather join the extreme republican USA then be a part of this 'socialized and liberalized ' Canada.

Actually there are a few of those pipsqueeks even here in Alberta--- especially in the teaching profession and among students under 30. I personally would much rather be part of the great Country of Alberta and keep the U.S. as a trading partner and ally only. But even in the U.S. all of the states have equal representation and the jurisdiction over their own laws and system of government. I'd take that over the socialist/ soon-to-be-communist / banana republic that is the Canadian Liberal dynasty any day.

Your Cross section of users here provide the data for my 'image'. So maybe look at your local user base instead of trying to blame the East for making assumptions.. all we can go on is what YOU people portray as your feelings and say on the subject.. Which has , in the last year or so pretty much sealed any thought of me ever going back out west (unless it's the the area around sea to sky.), personally your all a bunch ( based on information the rx7club members from alberta have portrayed to me ) a bunch of redneck *******

Dori, Dori, Dori... I'm so disappointed in you. Your post started off so sophisticated, but now it has once again degenerated into mindless name-calling and emotional instability. For shame.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

a) no one had to convince me that the US IS the walking embodiement of all unused bad kharma that the world has accumulated since day one.
b) I'm not a liber nor do i ever wish to be one , nor do i vote for them.. I vote for whatever party that wants to legalize pot.. and iv'e never smoked so much a cigarette in my life never mind pot.. but ohh think of how it would **** off the americans AND make a huge boost in our economy as a whole..
c) you seem to forget that a 'republic of alberta does not include allot of things you have now, like the dollar. or the indian lands.. QUebec seperates.. the cree own 90% of QUE. you think they are just going to let them take it? not a chance.. you have the SAME fight on your hands.. you and quebec are so closely related in your whining it's scary.. I'd be the first on at your 'Border' making sure you didn't come across into Canada to try an 'borrow' anythng too.. you can count on that.
d) You emulate the US system and it's policies on most respects and discount Canada out of spite because the liberals are in charge.. I'd call that a US lovin' traitor .. but then again I"m intolerant

e)and Finally .. you fail to see that you assume that I just decided that the 'west' sucked.. or that the liberals fed it to me.. I will reitterate as it seems you honestly don't seem to have a clue.. what I think, ( and this does not apply to BC), is based on the behaviour of the people ON here from Alberta.. this site.. not just this particular sub section .. do you get it.. the liberals had nothing to do with it.. unless the liberals have been coming on to this site as Albertans and specifically talking about how Canada sucks and how they much rather be independant or either join the US as the US virgin oilfields.. you know they could just be doing that.. what a devious and underhanded plot on thier part.. those evil doers.

Aviator 902S

[QUOTE=doridori-rx7]a)

no one had to convince me that the US IS the walking embodiement of all unused bad kharma that the world has accumulated since day one.

I think that title belongs to North Korea, Iran and the militant Islamic fanatics. But whatever you wish to believe...

b) I'm not a liber nor do i ever wish to be one , nor do i vote for them.. I vote for whatever party that wants to legalize pot.. and iv'e never smoked so much a cigarette in my life never mind pot.. but ohh think of how it would **** off the americans AND make a huge boost in our economy as a whole..

Surely you're not serious. "Never mind developing a healthy economy so that fewer people have to live in poverty, keeping murderous rapist scumbags locked up and electing a government that will stand up for the oppressed and destitute. Let's legalize pot! It'll **** of those evil yanks!" I happen to agree that pot should be legalized and that Canadian laws should not be enacted to appease other countries. But that particular issue is far down the list of priorities.

c) you seem to forget that a 'republic of alberta does not include allot of things you have now, like the dollar.

Uh, you mean the 0.85 of a dollar. Or the 0.60 of a Euro. But no worries. The free and democratic nation of Alberta would have its own currency, one whose value would be every bit as strong as its economy would be without the ball and chain of the current Canadian system of government to drag it down.

or the indian lands.. QUebec seperates.. the cree own 90% of QUE. you think they are just going to let them take it? not a chance.. you have the SAME fight on your hands..

... and with all that revenue that no longer goes to propping up Ottawa we could afford to spend some of it to address this issue. No worries.

you and quebec are so closely related in your whining it's scary..

Actually there is a difference: Quebec whines because it wants more of what doesn't belong to it in the first place. Alberta kicks up a stink because we've had it with having a disproportionate share of what does belong to us stolen from us by the feds--- for the primary purpose of keeping the balance of power from slipping out of the hands of the federal Liberals.


I'd be the first on at your 'Border' making sure you didn't come across into Canada to try an 'borrow' anythng too.. you can count on that.

Now that sounds like a redneck statement if I've ever heard one. I think I'll just hop over the border for spite just to see you try to back that up.



d) You emulate the US system and it's policies on most respects and discount Canada out of spite because the liberals are in charge.. I'd call that a US lovin' traitor .. but then again I"m intolerant

Actually the U.S. system is far superior to our parliamentary system. If it wasn't the U.S. governments would have long since been far more corrupt than even you depict them to be. Call me a traitor if you want, but it's the Canadian government that started this fight--- and now they're about to reap the rewards. I feel absolutely no loyalty to them or their supporters whatsoever. So sue me.

e)and Finally .. you fail to see that you assume that I just decided that the 'west' sucked.. or that the liberals fed it to me..

So you're saying that you just came to these conclusions all by youself? Considering the emotional insecurities of your posts I find that very hard to believe.

I will reitterate as it seems you honestly don't seem to have a clue..

But you do? Omigawd--- I used to be disgusted but now I'm just amused...



what I think, ( and this does not apply to BC), is based on the behaviour of the people ON here from Alberta.. this site.. not just this particular sub section

BC is a very socialist province and you'd fit right in with them. My wife and I are from there so we are in a good position to know. But even B.C. has dissidents who are a) contemplating how much better they'd have it if it weren't for Ottawa and b) how much more well off they'd be if their government adopted some of the same fiscal policies that Alberta utilizes. It's a very small movement there but then again, that's how it started here.

And if you think the Albertans on this entire forum are the only ones in the province who feel this way you haven't been paying attention. The majority in this province are fed up with the bullshit coming out of Ottawa. In spite of this, many are not (yet) ready to give those ****** the heave-ho. But that situation is rapidly changing.



.. do you get it.

Now, now, dori. No need to get condescending--- especially since the emotional immaturity of your posts indicate that you are currently talking down to someone with superior intelligence and wizdom to your own. BTW, there's supposed to be a question mark after "do you get it?"

. the liberals had nothing to do with it.. unless the liberals have been coming on to this site as Albertans and specifically talking about how Canada sucks and how they much rather be independant or either join the US as the US virgin oilfields.. you know they could just be doing that.. what a devious and underhanded plot on thier part.. those evil doers

Huh? Now that would be an interesting twist. But alas, this is for real. An independant Alberta, formed by those who don't bow down before the almighty Liberal dynasty, and who would rather die on their feet than live on their knees.

Excuse me for a minute. I have to nuke another bag of popcorn.

Prôdigy2nd

iTrader: (3)

oh my goodness it's like watching a fight between mornic idoit and a University professer, no offense doridori-rx7 but plaese pull your head outta the liberals *** where they want it look at the facts and just tell us again, we are whinning for the same reason, as stated qeubic is wanting more free handouts, and we are saying we are giving no more free handouts to the feds, so if you wanna chat just get a plane ticket over here and we can all sit down and have a good talk with out any stupid name calling (yes i know i was calling names, i'm not excusing myself from that statement but it's hard to get points across with certain words), if ya want i'll even give ya my phone number, if you wanna share your opinion.



Prôdigy

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

Considering your locale I don't really take anything you say as much more then redneck drivel.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=Aviator 902S]whatever.

Aviator 902S

Uh, it's one thing for us to waste our time responding to him on this forum (and I'll be the first to admit being guilty here), but to actually offer to take valuable time away from our family and friends to listen to him rant in person as he whines, calls names and issues threats that he doesn't have a hope in hell of delivering on?

Life's too short and besides, unlike on a forum (where you get to say your piece without interruption) I doubt he'd let us get a word in edge-wise. After all, that's how liberals, socialists, communists and their sympathizers "win" arguments.

As you can see by the two posts by him just above this one, he's now talking more but saying less and his rebuttals are bordering on irrelevance. Wiser people than me have often said that it's the better part of wizdom to let the idiot have the last word. (This is not to suggest that I'm calling him an idiot at all. If I were going to resort to name calling I'd refer to him as an ***-wipe, but I'm not going to do that).

But this whole thing is getting boring and my wife wants to "celebrate our marital status."



Besides, it sounds like this guy's about to blow a gasket. I think I'll let him have the last word. What say we let him sulk in peace?

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

"I doubt he'd let us get a word in edge-wise. After all, that's how liberals, socialists, communists and their sympathizers "win" arguments."

you go brownshirt.. would you like your goosestep to start on the left or right foot.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

I guess you have now - I am not a fan of American politics, I do not like the Republicans, and I don't like George W, whom I think with his useless war in Iraq, based on the false premise of WMD's, has helped to further Islamic fanaticism against his own country. My politics are are neither left nor right, and as I have stated elsewhere, voters who keep voting in crappy governments again and again, whether here in Alberta with the PC's, and in Ontario with the federal Libs, get the crappy government they deserve - what reason would there ever be for them to clean up, when they know they can play to the supposed scariness of the alternatives. And you show a case in point - you accuse Albertans of being red-neck extremists, based on what - I'd like to know what posts you've read on here that demonstrate this. I've seen a lot of posts, and I include my own in this, that make logical and factually based positions, and been thrown back a load of bull about homophobic, misogynistic, American loving westerners. What's your basis for this - what you read between the lines? What you assume must be there? Westerners have strong feelings about being screwed over by Ottawa, that is certain - but a lot of that stems from real injustices, and from a real sense of fairness and equality - which as I've laid out earlier, are definitely strong values that owe a lot to the history of the west. The fact is most Albertans don't want to separate from Canada at all - but on the other hand, there's certainly lots who are frustrated enough with corruption and unfair policies out of Ottawa that play the ends of the country against the middle that they'd consider the idea. Why don't you try reading and responding to what's really being said, and not just your own stereotypes - you might learn something.

jhammons01

Damn Dorito, You get spanked in two countries!!! Now I know why you have been speding so much time lately in the lounge.

I'll say one thing for you Canadians, you really have a good command of the language and you definately know when and how to invoke it.

Funny how Dorito seems to be unfamiliar with truths even about Canada. I thoguht he was just a retard Canadian trying stir **** up in the lounge......to the contraray he seems not to know **** about anything.......

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

.. must be interesting to lead a life where Fourm stalking is your event of the day... fluffer.

Prôdigy2nd

iTrader: (3)

either you suck at spelling or i am not understanding enough to make any sense of that last post, not trying to be rude maybee explain yourself


Prôdigy

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

? only word that's wrong is 'Forum' and that's due to lazy typing habits.. the rest should explain it's self.. if it's not?.. well, it's really not worth the time to type one regarding this redneck kid.