Mazda RX-7 EFINI TYPE

Hey guys, just wondering if it's bad at all for my tranny if I heel-toe and downshift into first gear at higher rpm's. The last thing I need is to replace a tranny, so I just wanted to make sure...lol. I just remember like I was told that first gear was double synchro'd or something to that effect, so I don't really want to harm that in any way. I really have no clue, which obviously lead to this question. Thanks.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

Heel-and-toeing, combined with double clutching on the downshift (briefly let the clutch up with the shifter in neutral, blip the gas to match the input shaft speed to anticipated revs in the lower gear, clutch in, shift to lower gear, clutch out), is actually easier on the syncros. That said, downshifts at higher rpms are harder to match and pull off smoothly, and will be harder on the transmission. I would hope this is not for street use - on the street there's almost never reason to downshift to first at high rpms, it's harder on the whole drivetrain (not terrible, mind you, but puts unneeded strain on everything - engine, clutch, gearbox, driveshaft joints) - engine right back to the diff and axles. If you're doing it just for engine braking, at the speeds you could be going down to first your brakes can easily stop the car much more effectively - you're limited by grip, not braking power if your brakes work, hard engine braking will add nothing but noise and wear. And brakes are much cheaper to replace than clutches, transmissions, and engines.

Autocrossing on a tight course might be one of the few situations where you might actually need to do it - but you won't have time to double clutch if you're doing it to pick up 10ths, so you just aim to be as smooth with the heel-and-toeing as possible.

Most times, staying in 2nd will be faster overall, unless a course has a lot of first gear work - you nearly always upset the car and lose time because first is hard to be smooth in. To read in and answer a question that may not be related to your original post - I'm just trying to guess why you asked.

Mazda RX-7 EFINI TYPE

Well I actually haven't yet encountered a turn where I was required to go to first gear on a track, but I just wanted to know in case it ever happened, especially if I decide to hit up an autocross track or something or the other. I do do it from time to time while I'm daily driving, just to get good at it (90% of the time my first gear heel-toe is smooth now). In general I heel-toe all the time, just because it makes downshifting more fun, smoother & it keeps me busy...lol. I do realize that 2nd gear is generally faster overall, I was just curious, and I'm sure it's something I'll give a shot if I encounter such turns to see if I can shave off any time. So I'm really only doing it to see if I can do it I guess, lol, but I also don't want experimenting to cause any damage. I figured it would be easier on the driveline since the engagement is a lot smoother. Oh and just because I heel-toe all the time doesn't mean I'm redlining everywhere...lol, I just do it driving normally, especially when I have others in the car, just for comfort really.+

And to be honest, I find matching the revs at higher RPM to be easier, while every day driving took me a little time to get used to. Maybe I'm just...different...loll.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

I regularly downshift through the gears on the street too - I just don't do it at high rpms, as I'm not looking for instant hard acceleration, or engine braking - I usually just blip it into the next gear down as revs come down to around 1250-1500 rpm (a few hundred rpm higher in the 7) - roughly the point where if I wanted to roll back in the gas, if it goes any lower, it's likely to lug the engine. Which is mostly about practicing and keeping my heel and toe and double-clutch skills. And it's kind of fun - I pride myself on downshifting through the gears smoother than most automatics do it (having 2 of 3 cars with no useful cupholders provides extra incentive!). But that still means revs in the next lower gear only jump up to 2500-3000, not high rpms on any of my cars. I can't really think of anytime I get into first on a road race track, and even in autocrossing I've probably had entire seasons of 10-14 events where I never go back to first after the first upshift.

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

I've heel-toed to first at a couple auto-crosses, but it's actually faster to leave it in second. In a rush entering a tight turn it's easy to screw it up, even if you are good at it. Sure you don't have that high RPM oomph, but it also gives you more time to focus on the corner.

Mazda RX-7 EFINI TYPE

I could see how I'll probably never use it, I was just curious lol. I'm sure I'll still try it just for my own satisfaction, lol. And yea, on the daily I just do it at very low RPMs & yes it is beautiful being able to shift smoother than most auto's

23Racer

In all the times I have raced the car, I have only used first a few times from a roll. In every case it was downshifting after almost coming to a stop and it sorta gets forced in to gear. I always use second gear from a roll and if your rpm's are too low there are a couple of tricks you can use to help the car accelerate. All of them are really brutal on the car, but really help you to go fast.

I use one of them every time I need to really turn a hot lap at Shannonville coming out of the hairpin on the Fabi pit straight. The other one I use in slightly faster corners, like 5b at Mosport, when I am really being balked by a slower car. They are not nice and they are not smooth, but they help for an instant at some mechanical cost.

What people need to realize that there is a big difference between racing and driving fast smoothly. When you are driving fast, its all about smoothness and a delicate touch on the controls. When you are racing, you are doing all of that, plus figuring out how to abuse your car just that little bit extra to go that little bit faster. There is a significant difference between being a great driver and being a great racing driver. For street, Solo and Lapping Days, you want to be a great driver, smooth, fast and consistent. For a great racing driver, you need to be smooth, fast, consistent and aggressive. At times you need to have mechanical sympathy and at times you need to be able to squeeze out that last tenth at some mechanical cost.

As it is too hard to smoothly and consistantly downshift into 1st on track, most FC race drivers never use 1st in a stock box, they find some way around it.

Eric