My 87 GXL and its ongoing odyssey...
06-01-12, 08:32 PM
#26
Had a BBQ on the side of the road tonight...
The culprit, a pinched injector o-ring...
All that was damaged includes,
Several vacuum lines, including the brake booster line.
Fuel return line is pretty crispy...
Turbo Coolant feed line is crispy...
Injector clips and wiring are a little melted, injectors are fine though...
I was on the side of the road filming my exhaust, revving it out pretty good and tuning it because it was getting too rich revving up to about 6K. Wisps of black smoke start curling up the windshield, and I turn the car off and try to figure out if the car is in fact on fire. Upon seeing flames under the car I hoped, even though it was raining, I had just ignited some grass. I couldnt find my keys, so I pushed the car back. I then grabbed anything dear to my heart and threw it out of the car, I then started looking for ANYTHING to douse the flames with, while calling 911. All I had was some anti-bacterial windex multi-surface cleaner, which I dearly hoped wasnt flammable. I opened the hood and located the general area that was the source of the fire, under the UIM, I took the cap off, aimed it under the UIM, and squeezed the hell out of that bottle!!! Immediately the fire was doused, and I was massively relieved, about 5 minutes later the fire department arrived and I called AAA for a tow home...
Not a fun night... But I think its only about $50 in damage at the most.. So I am really, really thankful that is all that happened!! Looks like I should be back up to 100% in a few days!! And yes, I am most definitely going to be more cautious with installing injectors in the future!
http://youtu.be/VqbzKlCBnRk
The culprit, a pinched injector o-ring...
All that was damaged includes,
Several vacuum lines, including the brake booster line.
Fuel return line is pretty crispy...
Turbo Coolant feed line is crispy...
Injector clips and wiring are a little melted, injectors are fine though...
I was on the side of the road filming my exhaust, revving it out pretty good and tuning it because it was getting too rich revving up to about 6K. Wisps of black smoke start curling up the windshield, and I turn the car off and try to figure out if the car is in fact on fire. Upon seeing flames under the car I hoped, even though it was raining, I had just ignited some grass. I couldnt find my keys, so I pushed the car back. I then grabbed anything dear to my heart and threw it out of the car, I then started looking for ANYTHING to douse the flames with, while calling 911. All I had was some anti-bacterial windex multi-surface cleaner, which I dearly hoped wasnt flammable. I opened the hood and located the general area that was the source of the fire, under the UIM, I took the cap off, aimed it under the UIM, and squeezed the hell out of that bottle!!! Immediately the fire was doused, and I was massively relieved, about 5 minutes later the fire department arrived and I called AAA for a tow home...
Not a fun night... But I think its only about $50 in damage at the most.. So I am really, really thankful that is all that happened!! Looks like I should be back up to 100% in a few days!! And yes, I am most definitely going to be more cautious with installing injectors in the future!
http://youtu.be/VqbzKlCBnRk
06-02-12, 08:39 PM
#27
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Location: Charleston, SC
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Really sorry to hear this happened man. Sounds like you did a good job reacting quickly, probably saved yourself a lot of effort and money when it comes time to repair. Hope to see it back on the road soon.
06-03-12, 10:37 AM
#29
Back together, turbo is still smoking, I havent had time to take it off to establish if its the engine or the turbo. Pretty sure its the turbo, it starts smoking as soon as I start it, and continues until I shut it off. Ive had bad oil control rings, even when they are really bad, they usually gradually stop smoking as the car warms up...
Man I got lucky... $41 in hoses and coolant, and everything is fixed! I had a Toyota MR2 harness laying around, and the injector clips were identical, even the same color. Oddly enough they used a slightly heavier gauge wire... I lifted them out of that harness, de-loomed mine, and attached them. The Home Depot racing rubber elbow got a little seared, so I stole a silicone coupler from my FMIC setup.
On a side note, I have a full size fire extinguisher in the hatch now. I think I will mount it in a bin.... If it will fit...
Man I got lucky... $41 in hoses and coolant, and everything is fixed! I had a Toyota MR2 harness laying around, and the injector clips were identical, even the same color. Oddly enough they used a slightly heavier gauge wire... I lifted them out of that harness, de-loomed mine, and attached them. The Home Depot racing rubber elbow got a little seared, so I stole a silicone coupler from my FMIC setup.
On a side note, I have a full size fire extinguisher in the hatch now. I think I will mount it in a bin.... If it will fit...
06-04-12, 12:26 AM
#30
Well, the exhaust ports are mostly dry... (Yes, I know, the manifold gasket is a giant leaking POS!)
Eh, turbo aint....
Well, I dont remember this being purple...
Ooooh! Coke!
Looks like it was pushing past the ring pretty well, looks like the turbo shaft has had a pretty hard life too! No thanks to me!
Spare turbo going on tomorrow, hopefully all is well!
Eh, turbo aint....
Well, I dont remember this being purple...
Ooooh! Coke!
Looks like it was pushing past the ring pretty well, looks like the turbo shaft has had a pretty hard life too! No thanks to me!
Spare turbo going on tomorrow, hopefully all is well!
06-13-12, 07:02 PM
#32
Well all was good until I started having an issue where the car would run rich as a pig at part throttle, and lean out badly at WOT. Changed the FPR and fixed that issue, maybe the fire cooked the diaphragm inside of it, because it failed every test I threw at it.
Turbo started smoking, not even close to as bad as the last one. I checked my drain, nothing is blocking it, so I guess it was just time for this turbo to take a dump... It had always smoked a little, but it had gotten pretty bad...
Picked up a turbo from a friend, it came from a non-running car. But it had no end play, and almost no side play. So I bought it and degreased the heck out of it. (Yes my drain is covered in JB Weld, the pipe is welded together with mig, and the brass fitting is brazed on. For piece of mind, and ensuring it was leak free I smeared it in JB weld....)
Stuck her on and crossed my fingers...
Smokes at idle, and really badly under boost... Ordered a rebuild kit awhile back... Havent seen it in the mail yet... I need it pretty bad...
Turbo started smoking, not even close to as bad as the last one. I checked my drain, nothing is blocking it, so I guess it was just time for this turbo to take a dump... It had always smoked a little, but it had gotten pretty bad...
Picked up a turbo from a friend, it came from a non-running car. But it had no end play, and almost no side play. So I bought it and degreased the heck out of it. (Yes my drain is covered in JB Weld, the pipe is welded together with mig, and the brass fitting is brazed on. For piece of mind, and ensuring it was leak free I smeared it in JB weld....)
Stuck her on and crossed my fingers...
Smokes at idle, and really badly under boost... Ordered a rebuild kit awhile back... Havent seen it in the mail yet... I need it pretty bad...
06-14-12, 10:48 AM
#34
Wish I would have seen this sooner. I would have asked why you chose to tap the oil pan instead of the front cover. On my 6p-t I swapped to a turbo front cover altogether, made things go a lot more smoothly.
Good catch with the fire, I was going to suggest the PD, but a cut o-ring will do it too. I really hope you took that opportunity to ditch the PD and install a banjo bolt, or that might not be your last fire.
You really do seem to have bad luck with turbos, but considering the youngest of them are 20+ years old, that's not really surprising. If I were going to rebuild a stock turbo I would at least upgrade to a BNR stage 2 equivilent (T04b comp housing and wheel) it is no more difficult than rebuilding a stocker.
Any plans for engine management? I'm kinda surprised how well it seems to run with what I'm assuming is a stock n/a ecu
Good catch with the fire, I was going to suggest the PD, but a cut o-ring will do it too. I really hope you took that opportunity to ditch the PD and install a banjo bolt, or that might not be your last fire.
You really do seem to have bad luck with turbos, but considering the youngest of them are 20+ years old, that's not really surprising. If I were going to rebuild a stock turbo I would at least upgrade to a BNR stage 2 equivilent (T04b comp housing and wheel) it is no more difficult than rebuilding a stocker.
Any plans for engine management? I'm kinda surprised how well it seems to run with what I'm assuming is a stock n/a ecu
06-14-12, 01:05 PM
#35
Wish I would have seen this sooner. I would have asked why you chose to tap the oil pan instead of the front cover. On my 6p-t I swapped to a turbo front cover altogether, made things go a lot more smoothly.
Good catch with the fire, I was going to suggest the PD, but a cut o-ring will do it too. I really hope you took that opportunity to ditch the PD and install a banjo bolt, or that might not be your last fire.
You really do seem to have bad luck with turbos, but considering the youngest of them are 20+ years old, that's not really surprising. If I were going to rebuild a stock turbo I would at least upgrade to a BNR stage 2 equivilent (T04b comp housing and wheel) it is no more difficult than rebuilding a stocker.
Any plans for engine management? I'm kinda surprised how well it seems to run with what I'm assuming is a stock n/a ecu
Good catch with the fire, I was going to suggest the PD, but a cut o-ring will do it too. I really hope you took that opportunity to ditch the PD and install a banjo bolt, or that might not be your last fire.
You really do seem to have bad luck with turbos, but considering the youngest of them are 20+ years old, that's not really surprising. If I were going to rebuild a stock turbo I would at least upgrade to a BNR stage 2 equivilent (T04b comp housing and wheel) it is no more difficult than rebuilding a stocker.
Any plans for engine management? I'm kinda surprised how well it seems to run with what I'm assuming is a stock n/a ecu
Pulsation damper is still intact, I have ordered the banjo bolt, but it seems to be in shipping limbo, as I ordered it awhile ago... I dont trust the S-AFC at all, and I dont have enough fuel capability to safely run a hybrid right now, so Im sticking to a rebuilt S4. Rebuild kit should be here in a day or two, damn USPS and their pointless tracking numbers.... And yes I am on an N/A ECU, N/A AFM, and really N/A everything. It took alot of tweaking to get the idle right as I eliminated the BAC, but otherwise it runs and boosts like a champ. If the SAFC had some form of timing control, I might be happy with it for the time being.
At this point I just want to get a good turbo on it, remove the PSD, delete the ABS, and just enjoy it for awhile. Drive it to some meets, and take it on a few long drives. Just before the fire, I had that. It was running like a raped ape, I could take it anywhere, run it to redline as much as I wanted. But since I killed my one good turbo, I havent been able to drive it much. And I am the kinda guy that will NOT drive the car if something is the least bit screwed up. And on Turbo rotaries, I think that should be everyones policy.
06-14-12, 01:49 PM
#37
Something else I forgot, if you still have your n/a exhaust gaskets use those, they seal better (although anything would seal better than that blown out gasket thats on there now) A little copper spray on both sides wouldn't hurt either.
Since you're so worried about creep why haven't you ported any of your wastegates? As often as you have the turbo off you've certainly had the opportunity
Some might consider running n/a everything "screwed up". It certainly doesn't give you much of a safety margin, and with that SAFC convential wisdom suggests its only matter of time before something (else) unfortunate happens. A properly functioning turbo might not be a good thing, the fact that your other turbos where dying and thus not boosting properly is probably one of the contributing factors to why this engine is still in one piece, especially on an un-ported S4 wg.
Good call on ditching the ABS, its a big hunk of heavy useless junk.
Since you're so worried about creep why haven't you ported any of your wastegates? As often as you have the turbo off you've certainly had the opportunity
Originally Posted by LokiRx7.1
I am the kinda guy that will NOT drive the car if something is the least bit screwed up. And on Turbo rotaries, I think that should be everyones policy.
Good call on ditching the ABS, its a big hunk of heavy useless junk.
06-15-12, 11:49 AM
#38
Something else I forgot, if you still have your n/a exhaust gaskets use those, they seal better (although anything would seal better than that blown out gasket thats on there now) A little copper spray on both sides wouldn't hurt either.
Since you're so worried about creep why haven't you ported any of your wastegates? As often as you have the turbo off you've certainly had the opportunity
Some might consider running n/a everything "screwed up". It certainly doesn't give you much of a safety margin, and with that SAFC convential wisdom suggests its only matter of time before something (else) unfortunate happens. A properly functioning turbo might not be a good thing, the fact that your other turbos where dying and thus not boosting properly is probably one of the contributing factors to why this engine is still in one piece, especially on an un-ported S4 wg.
Good call on ditching the ABS, its a big hunk of heavy useless junk.
Since you're so worried about creep why haven't you ported any of your wastegates? As often as you have the turbo off you've certainly had the opportunity
Some might consider running n/a everything "screwed up". It certainly doesn't give you much of a safety margin, and with that SAFC convential wisdom suggests its only matter of time before something (else) unfortunate happens. A properly functioning turbo might not be a good thing, the fact that your other turbos where dying and thus not boosting properly is probably one of the contributing factors to why this engine is still in one piece, especially on an un-ported S4 wg.
Good call on ditching the ABS, its a big hunk of heavy useless junk.
I have a ported wastegate, but I am still getting 2 psi of creep. Matter of fact, every single time I have swapped turbos, I have swapped hotsides to keep the ported wastegate.
My first turbo smoked, but boosted perfectly.
My second turbo was perfect until the fire, so again it boosted properly.
I have put 2000 miles on it so far, boosting in nearly every gear, and no failures, no almost failures.
I have not once experienced detonation, and in my long research process I found that stock boost can be handled by an SAFC and the N/A ECU. I had found several examples of people going above and beyond stock boost as well.
Rebuild kit showed its ugly face, time to rebuild and get back on the road. Im glad you guys feel its only a matter of time until it blows. I wish you could ride in it and realize how well this setup actually works. Im only running stock boost, and I have never once encountered detonation, like I said this is very temporary. But so long as I pay attention to the wideband and the boost gauge I dont have much issue with it. Really the only way I think you can possibly get away with doing this, is with a wideband and a boost gauge at minimum. I also dont run it hard on the interstate, its more of an around town ground pounder. That is more personal preference than fear of blowing it anyway. Regardless I have a spare complete engine, and enough torn down engines to build two or three more should the need arise. If I kill this one though, its getting parked until I get a standalone. Otherwise, Im just gonna enjoy it!
06-15-12, 12:02 PM
#39
The n.a fuel pump cant keep up with ****. AT LEAST get a turbo fuel pump. Id imagine one day your going to go hella lean and detonate. Yeah you got a wideband and boost gauge but doesnt mean its safe now. Im just tryin to keep a running motor alive longer than it should be.
I as well have been on my way to do a 6pt. I have everything to do it properly, even everything needed for the tII trans swap : ) But lastly i need engine management before i bolt it all together. I cant wait! Good luck with your on going odyssey.
I as well have been on my way to do a 6pt. I have everything to do it properly, even everything needed for the tII trans swap : ) But lastly i need engine management before i bolt it all together. I cant wait! Good luck with your on going odyssey.
06-15-12, 12:15 PM
#42
Lol, the same way I missed it.
Looks like you've done enough research to evaluate the risks and know exactly where you stand. I stand by my statement that you don't have much safety margin with this setup, HOWEVER it is working now and that certainly counts for a lot. I like this thread/build so I'd rather not see it end prematurely that's all.
I agree that a wide-band and boost gauge are a good idea for tuning/monitoring a boosted setup, I used to stare at my boost gauge constantly when I upgraded my intake in an effort to avoid fuel cut. That however got real old real fast, and I upgraded to a setup where I could account for any conditions my engine might see (rtek 2.1).
So whats next?
Looks like you've done enough research to evaluate the risks and know exactly where you stand. I stand by my statement that you don't have much safety margin with this setup, HOWEVER it is working now and that certainly counts for a lot. I like this thread/build so I'd rather not see it end prematurely that's all.
I agree that a wide-band and boost gauge are a good idea for tuning/monitoring a boosted setup, I used to stare at my boost gauge constantly when I upgraded my intake in an effort to avoid fuel cut. That however got real old real fast, and I upgraded to a setup where I could account for any conditions my engine might see (rtek 2.1).
So whats next?
06-15-12, 12:18 PM
#43
The n.a fuel pump cant keep up with ****. AT LEAST get a turbo fuel pump. Id imagine one day your going to go hella lean and detonate. Yeah you got a wideband and boost gauge but doesnt mean its safe now. Im just tryin to keep a running motor alive longer than it should be.
I as well have been on my way to do a 6pt. I have everything to do it properly, even everything needed for the tII trans swap : ) But lastly i need engine management before i bolt it all together. I cant wait! Good luck with your on going odyssey.
I as well have been on my way to do a 6pt. I have everything to do it properly, even everything needed for the tII trans swap : ) But lastly i need engine management before i bolt it all together. I cant wait! Good luck with your on going odyssey.
I am glad you are doing everything right in your build, but please at least read my thread before you give me advice. And I am not advising anyone else to follow in my footsteps here. I dont recommend building with N/A sensors and ECU. Ive made it work, and its been alot of fun doing so. If it blows... Well than it blows, and that will be my excuse to swap in my fresh engine, and get a proper engine management system. But it just isnt in the budget right now.... So Im doing it wrong for now I guess!
06-15-12, 12:21 PM
#44
Lol, the same way I missed it.
Looks like you've done enough research to evaluate the risks and know exactly where you stand. I stand by my statement that you don't have much safety margin with this setup, HOWEVER it is working now and that certainly counts for a lot.
Looks like you've done enough research to evaluate the risks and know exactly where you stand. I stand by my statement that you don't have much safety margin with this setup, HOWEVER it is working now and that certainly counts for a lot.
But I made it work, and uh... It is working for now! I do understand all the risks, and I will admit, there is a part of me that enjoys making it work when it probably shouldnt.
Im not going to lie.... Everytime I boost my sphincter tightens as I expect the inevitable..
But I have plans down the road, Im saving cash, and when I have enough Im going to do it right. For now this is keeping me happy, and thats all I really care about!
06-15-12, 01:34 PM
#45
Is the oil pan a bad location for the oil drain? I'm still not sure how I am going to run the oil and coolant lines on my 6 port turbo....id really rather not blow my turbo after spending 60$ to have it rebuilt.. hopefully the parts will be going on next week.
06-15-12, 01:51 PM
#46
The oil pan is the most common location for aftermarket turbo drains largely because of its proximity to the turbo and non-pressurized nature. Then again the majority of aftermarket turbo installations are on piston engines that sit higher in the engine bay and have taller oil pans.
The FC oil pan is pretty shallow and thus it is easy to put in a bung at an angle that is not optimal (probably one of the reasons they used the front cover from the factory) . Which brings me to my next point; most turbo installs that use the oil pan don't have a factory turbo version of the same engine that they can simply pull functional well-engineered parts from to complete their project.
The FC oil pan is pretty shallow and thus it is easy to put in a bung at an angle that is not optimal (probably one of the reasons they used the front cover from the factory) . Which brings me to my next point; most turbo installs that use the oil pan don't have a factory turbo version of the same engine that they can simply pull functional well-engineered parts from to complete their project.
06-18-12, 12:10 AM
#49
Well this is a little out of order. The day before the meet USPS came through and delivered my turbo rebuild kit.
The only pic I have, I was deciding what components to use from two of my turbos.
Thats odd....
Anyway I slapped something together, made a trip to the local diesel shop for some balancing, and swapped it onto the car. Spent some time with the significant other, then invited a bored fellow rotorhead over for the moment of truth. Fired it up and let her warm up... No smoke... Took her for a spin... No smoke! Slowly started boosting... No smoke!!! So I decided to drive the FC to the BBQ the next day with only a short period of testing. She drove beautifully, and had no issues!
She is also sitting on some S4 T2 wheels that I acquired at the BBQ, will post pics soon!
The only pic I have, I was deciding what components to use from two of my turbos.
Thats odd....
Anyway I slapped something together, made a trip to the local diesel shop for some balancing, and swapped it onto the car. Spent some time with the significant other, then invited a bored fellow rotorhead over for the moment of truth. Fired it up and let her warm up... No smoke... Took her for a spin... No smoke! Slowly started boosting... No smoke!!! So I decided to drive the FC to the BBQ the next day with only a short period of testing. She drove beautifully, and had no issues!
She is also sitting on some S4 T2 wheels that I acquired at the BBQ, will post pics soon!
06-18-12, 11:58 AM
#50
I think my car is getting close to being a T2 clone! lol
Yeah I have a different exhaust, old one is full of oil... This one is a little loud for me, but it doesnt sound bad... Not sure if I am going to keep it as a friend is loaning it to me until I figure out what I will do for an exhaust... Like I said before, I have freaking awesome friends!
Yeah I have a different exhaust, old one is full of oil... This one is a little loud for me, but it doesnt sound bad... Not sure if I am going to keep it as a friend is loaning it to me until I figure out what I will do for an exhaust... Like I said before, I have freaking awesome friends!