I'm back in the 1st gen game... My new 1980
10-27-14, 01:42 PM
#76
Heres the work Ive done to the Nikki. All emissions removed and blocked off. Rebuilt, stripped, painted, blocked coolant passages. In the future I may trim the OMP nozzles like a Sterling. I may do the vacuum secondaries spring cutting mod.
10-27-14, 11:34 PM
#77
You have a few things incorrect. If you can take a little contructive corrections...
Don't trim the OMP nozzles. Sterling was wrong when he suggested that. Why? Because when you shorten them, the oil has to drool out over the upper part of the carb above the venturis instead of getting pulled down along the outside of the boosters and down into the carb as Mazda's engineers intended. The decrease in air flow having them there is neglegible if you have hogged venturis. Same for the trimmed booster supports. However I do trim the supports because it does help flow. I don't trim the accel pump nozzles though.
I tried the semi pulled out OMP nozzles before and it left a huge oil mess in places I didn't want it. I have a couple of pictures of the right way and wrong way on the forum I can dig up if you have questions.
"vacuum secondaries spring cutting mod"? That doesn't sound very appealing. There are two ways to do mechanical secondaries. One way where you wire the linkages together and leave the secondary vacuum housing alone. It is a reversible mod. The other way is where you weld the linkages together, remove the housing, and block off the vacuum port. This one isn't really reversible. You must also do the Sterling accel pump mod so you don't get the annoying bog.
Don't trim the OMP nozzles. Sterling was wrong when he suggested that. Why? Because when you shorten them, the oil has to drool out over the upper part of the carb above the venturis instead of getting pulled down along the outside of the boosters and down into the carb as Mazda's engineers intended. The decrease in air flow having them there is neglegible if you have hogged venturis. Same for the trimmed booster supports. However I do trim the supports because it does help flow. I don't trim the accel pump nozzles though.
I tried the semi pulled out OMP nozzles before and it left a huge oil mess in places I didn't want it. I have a couple of pictures of the right way and wrong way on the forum I can dig up if you have questions.
"vacuum secondaries spring cutting mod"? That doesn't sound very appealing. There are two ways to do mechanical secondaries. One way where you wire the linkages together and leave the secondary vacuum housing alone. It is a reversible mod. The other way is where you weld the linkages together, remove the housing, and block off the vacuum port. This one isn't really reversible. You must also do the Sterling accel pump mod so you don't get the annoying bog.
10-28-14, 04:20 PM
#78
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati...daries-967827/
I have several spare Nikkis. I figured Id take an extra spring and give it a go some day. If it doesnt work I can just put the uncut spring back in.
I do recall my Sterling leaving an oily film around the top of the venturis.
I have several spare Nikkis. I figured Id take an extra spring and give it a go some day. If it doesnt work I can just put the uncut spring back in.
I do recall my Sterling leaving an oily film around the top of the venturis.
10-28-14, 06:30 PM
#79
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati...daries-967827/ I have several spare Nikkis. I figured Id take an extra spring and give it a go some day. If it doesnt work I can just put the uncut spring back in. I do recall my Sterling leaving an oily film around the top of the venturis.
That said, go for the spring mod, tell us how you like it.
11-11-14, 06:12 PM
#83
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wow that looks great, i think you're done
11-12-14, 02:25 AM
#84
not quite. An rx7 is never done. Still lots of goodies coming. Stainless lines, tint, clear signal lenses from atkins, nardi classic wood wheel, sway bars, respeed style strut bar. Etc
Im very pleased though. Paid $750 from a friend. 15X7 +10 205-50-15 khumo.
Im very pleased though. Paid $750 from a friend. 15X7 +10 205-50-15 khumo.
11-12-14, 09:58 AM
#86
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the stuff you need to do just gets more boring as the project moves along, now you're cutting the floor up and at some point its just going to need gas...
11-12-14, 12:13 PM
#87
Ive honestly out of nine rotaries never had one that i just got to the point of standing back and saying "yep, theres absolutely nothing else i want to do to this car". Its impossible! I think id get to a point of not working on one for so long id just start breaking things on purpose only to fix it. I think have an addiction.
02-08-15, 12:29 AM
#92
I have one of those N304 ECUs.
"I hung it on me wall."
Seriously though I don't envy the amount of work you'll need to do because in the end, it didn't seem worth all the trouble. Ok, it was barely worth the effort because the owner didn't like using a choke **** for some reason.
I think in some ways I had an easier time getting the N326 ECU and all the harnesses + manifolding into an 84 chassis, even though I had to also install the clunky stock FC coils with lovely GSL power steering hoses and a battery in my way. At least the 84-85 cars have a convenient 2.5" hole on the passenger side for ECU wires and I had a complete setup from an FC which I pulled myself. But it was a lot of work to learn about the three harnesses, then which wires to keep, which could go, unwrap, de-pin, rewrap, then reroute or rather add the ignition harness through the passenger side hole along with the other two (made for a fat harness wrapped in corrugated plastic tubing) then across the engine over to the driver's side where all the ignition stuff is. The CAS wires needed to be fully shielded etc. Then there were the three thick ECU power wires which the N304 probably also has, which need to be hooked up correctly to various circuits in the car. Good thing Karack was still on the forum back then and helped me a lot to understand what I was doing. I can post a link to the thread if you think it might be helpfull. Just have to find it...
Ok I found it. Note I didn't install it in the REPU. It went into an 84 GSL instead. The REPU is getting an RB 6 port manifold and an Edelbrock, which I think you should do too lol. Just kidding. Though not really. Enjoy. https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...-help-1034320/
You know I still have the option of going EFI in the REPU. S4 NA and S5 NA manifolds sitting here. MegaSquirt. EFI rated fuel pump, complete harness that can be grafted onto a MegaSquirt harness etc. I'll see what my brother wants to do.
"I hung it on me wall."
Seriously though I don't envy the amount of work you'll need to do because in the end, it didn't seem worth all the trouble. Ok, it was barely worth the effort because the owner didn't like using a choke **** for some reason.
I think in some ways I had an easier time getting the N326 ECU and all the harnesses + manifolding into an 84 chassis, even though I had to also install the clunky stock FC coils with lovely GSL power steering hoses and a battery in my way. At least the 84-85 cars have a convenient 2.5" hole on the passenger side for ECU wires and I had a complete setup from an FC which I pulled myself. But it was a lot of work to learn about the three harnesses, then which wires to keep, which could go, unwrap, de-pin, rewrap, then reroute or rather add the ignition harness through the passenger side hole along with the other two (made for a fat harness wrapped in corrugated plastic tubing) then across the engine over to the driver's side where all the ignition stuff is. The CAS wires needed to be fully shielded etc. Then there were the three thick ECU power wires which the N304 probably also has, which need to be hooked up correctly to various circuits in the car. Good thing Karack was still on the forum back then and helped me a lot to understand what I was doing. I can post a link to the thread if you think it might be helpfull. Just have to find it...
Ok I found it. Note I didn't install it in the REPU. It went into an 84 GSL instead. The REPU is getting an RB 6 port manifold and an Edelbrock, which I think you should do too lol. Just kidding. Though not really. Enjoy. https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...-help-1034320/
You know I still have the option of going EFI in the REPU. S4 NA and S5 NA manifolds sitting here. MegaSquirt. EFI rated fuel pump, complete harness that can be grafted onto a MegaSquirt harness etc. I'll see what my brother wants to do.
02-08-15, 11:31 AM
#93
I just went through this whole thread today and realized I've been a bit less than encouraging even though you seem fully commited to this project, so I'll stop now.
Now I'm going to ask you for some advice. Do you think I should go ahead with the EFI swap into the REPU? Or just take the easy road and just do a carb? If cost per cost was exactly the same (300ish for the RB manifold vs all of the EFI stuff), would you go for it? The only difference would be time involved. I just don't know if I have that much time this year. It's for my brother who has zero experience setting up EFI but does have experience with an Edelbrock.
Now I'm going to ask you for some advice. Do you think I should go ahead with the EFI swap into the REPU? Or just take the easy road and just do a carb? If cost per cost was exactly the same (300ish for the RB manifold vs all of the EFI stuff), would you go for it? The only difference would be time involved. I just don't know if I have that much time this year. It's for my brother who has zero experience setting up EFI but does have experience with an Edelbrock.
02-08-15, 06:40 PM
#95
My .02 is that out of the 22 or so cars Ive owned, 20 of them were fuel injected. I never had a problem out of those 20 that was fuel injection related that caused the car to be undrivabe. My 79 and this car have had several problems out of both a Weber 45 DCOE and several Nikkis, including a Sterling. My friends car that I rebuilt his 12A on had several problems when we installed a brand new RB Holley and Mallory pump. Ive just decided that this car doesnt get treated like it should and sits in the garage 90% of them time. If it was reliable EFI I could drive it anytime anywhere. I imagine it will feel like my first s4 NA when Im done with it. A bare bones reliable 13B EFI. It will have working 6 ports to boot.
If it was a track car I would be running a 51 IDA Weber with a large street port. I know carbs are less to hassle with as far a reworking the cars components, but I just feel EFI will suit me better. In a year or two I may decide to go Standalone with s5 intake or something. Who knows.
If it was a track car I would be running a 51 IDA Weber with a large street port. I know carbs are less to hassle with as far a reworking the cars components, but I just feel EFI will suit me better. In a year or two I may decide to go Standalone with s5 intake or something. Who knows.
02-09-15, 01:07 PM
#96
Well I do have an S5 intake that's not being used lol! Interested? I have no plans for it. But thanks for the advice. Out of all the 13 or so cars I've had, all have been carbed except one which is the brown GSL-SE. It had no engine and the ECU had been removed when I got it. I put the 20B with a MegaSquirt in it and really didn't enjoy the process or the result so it came out and a carbed R5 4 port 13B went in and I've really enjoyed the process, and the result.
Of course tuning the Nikki wasn't all smiles and sunshine as there wasn't any info on the forum adressing my specific concerns about secondary tuning; reducing or eliminating the annoying secondary bog, so I had to go it alone and ask lots of questions. But then some folks on the forum provided some ideas, which I tried, and got rid of the bog completely! Even with boost which apparently is the most difficult thing to do on a nikki. Wow.
Since I've come full circle with Nikkis now, and most of my car experience has been with carbs, I'm definitely going to stick with them and recommend against EFI whenever a carb sounds like the better choice for someone. But then if they're sticking with it, like you are, I understand that I need to back down and try to be helpful in what limited-experience-with-EFI way I can. Like the EFI rated fuel pump or the throttle cable bracket that I installed successfully in an EFI swapped 1st gen early last year. Things like that.
And now I'm going to take my own advice and recommend against EFI in the REPU because the next owner has no EFI experience but he did successfully drive an Edelbrock on a rotary for a while. I also honestly don't have the time it'd take to set up an aftermarket EFI in it this year. It's one thing to sit at a computer and type up a bunch of cool ideas to try, but it's another to actually get out and do the work. I know setting up EFI would take a whole lot more work than I'm willing to put in, and if the next owner wouldn't even have a clue for what to do if anything ever went bad on some wire or sensor somewhere, he wouldn't be able to diagnose it, and I don't know if I would be able to either. He does own a nice laptop, but he wouldn't want to use it in a car environment.
Of course tuning the Nikki wasn't all smiles and sunshine as there wasn't any info on the forum adressing my specific concerns about secondary tuning; reducing or eliminating the annoying secondary bog, so I had to go it alone and ask lots of questions. But then some folks on the forum provided some ideas, which I tried, and got rid of the bog completely! Even with boost which apparently is the most difficult thing to do on a nikki. Wow.
Since I've come full circle with Nikkis now, and most of my car experience has been with carbs, I'm definitely going to stick with them and recommend against EFI whenever a carb sounds like the better choice for someone. But then if they're sticking with it, like you are, I understand that I need to back down and try to be helpful in what limited-experience-with-EFI way I can. Like the EFI rated fuel pump or the throttle cable bracket that I installed successfully in an EFI swapped 1st gen early last year. Things like that.
And now I'm going to take my own advice and recommend against EFI in the REPU because the next owner has no EFI experience but he did successfully drive an Edelbrock on a rotary for a while. I also honestly don't have the time it'd take to set up an aftermarket EFI in it this year. It's one thing to sit at a computer and type up a bunch of cool ideas to try, but it's another to actually get out and do the work. I know setting up EFI would take a whole lot more work than I'm willing to put in, and if the next owner wouldn't even have a clue for what to do if anything ever went bad on some wire or sensor somewhere, he wouldn't be able to diagnose it, and I don't know if I would be able to either. He does own a nice laptop, but he wouldn't want to use it in a car environment.
02-09-15, 03:12 PM
#97
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i've done both stock and aftermarket carbs, and efi, and i'm pretty agnostic. i can get pretty much anything to run nicely, the key is to pay attention to how the engine is running, we tend to focus on some random number we found on the internet, and try to make the engine do something it doesn't want to do. we should really be paying attention to the engine, and end up at a number...
anyways, i think the carb is usually quicker, and thus its more fun, EFI is more painstaking, especially aftermarket efi, so it takes longer.
i'm really looking forward to tuning Fungus Mungus's P port, its going to use an IDA carb, and i bet we can have it dialed in, in a few hours.
anyways, i think the carb is usually quicker, and thus its more fun, EFI is more painstaking, especially aftermarket efi, so it takes longer.
i'm really looking forward to tuning Fungus Mungus's P port, its going to use an IDA carb, and i bet we can have it dialed in, in a few hours.
02-09-15, 05:20 PM
#98
Ive had five FCs and the RX8 so I guess its what im used to. i Iike the sudden power burst feeling a carb gives you when you stomp the gas, but EFI reliability and consitancy over rules that for me. If i ever have a track only car or a stripped weekend beater it will be ported with a 51 IDA.
02-10-15, 12:58 AM
#99
Originally Posted by j9fd3s
i'm really looking forward to tuning Fungus Mungus's P port, its going to use an IDA carb, and i bet we can have it dialed in, in a few hours.
Could it be that easy? It is a fresh rebuild so we'll see.And something I learned early on, based on what you said about ignoring the wideband during idle tuning, is give the engine what it wants. If the wideband ends up at 13.1 and the idle is stable and awesome, good. Or if it prefers 11.9, great. Turns out the brown car's engine liked 12.2 the best.