This is SUPER awesome!!! I love the idea of modern suspension under the FB and wish I had the motivation to do something similar, haha.

Keep up the great work, this thing is gonna handle like none other!

 

Thanks. I'm wanting to do an IMSA tribute car based on Tommy Kendall's 75 car. Handling has to be there, even if it will still be a street friendly car. An exact replica of a race car would be somewhat miserable to drive much. We have to wow the VW and other club guys on the Dragon without causing mental and physical trauma on myself and passenger.

P.S. I need to do these addendums now and then to point out my stupid mistakes as a warning to others not to do the same.

1. Do not weld the locating bolts to the structure as studs. I've had the suspension on and off so many times now that I have worn out the threads and they are seizing when I try to fasten the nuts. The alternative that I'm going to (when I get the bolts cut back off there) is to weld metal plates around the subframe load bearing plates to positively locate the position and drop the bolts through the holes for clamping force only. This way if I screw up a bolt again, I can at least replace it without going through a thrashfest.

2. I should have left the center strut top plates loose, or at least easily removeable, in the pipe sections so I could more easily adjust the ride height when I got the engine in, and the suspension bolted up. It's currently set with a bit too much pre-load and riding higher than I wanted. Something I will have to address.

3. Do not make a cut on the firewall when trying to create clearance. The amount of work to fix it is not worth it. Especially since I'm not too sure that the clearancing was absolutely necessary.

 

Words of wisdom

Happy to see the progress! I'm sure you'll figure out a creative solution for the shifter/ebrake issue.

I know FB/FC folks swap around transmission tail housings to change the shifter location, I wonder if that is a possibility with the RX8 trans?

 

dunno? I doubt it, but I have no knowledge on that one. The transmission designs look quite a bit different. The shifter location is not a big deal to me as I had already committed Seppuku on my poor SA to fit the S4 trans and staying with the as designed package makes things easier (stop laughing already dammit). The positioning of the S4 shifter was comfortable with the first gen seating, even with my somewhat vertically challenged legs forcing the seat forward. The inch and a half relocation should not affect anything too much.

By the way, the engine looks really good in there pushed back like that. Decided to post a picture that hopefully does a better job of showing how much further back the engine sits. The couple of inches makes a big difference. And yes, installing the engine/trans package from the bottom up is definitely MUCH easier.


This post is getting the edit from hell. I don't want to clutter up the thread with minor additions, so I will add edits. Checked my E brake mount since you reminded me of it. It will weld back in there without modifications. I will need to put studs in the mounting holes as the bolts will hit when sticking through, but completely doable to retain the stock E bake. Yay!

 

I admire how nicely that hood prop rod lays against your strut mount. Almost OEM Looking good!

 

I fixed my screw up with the strut tops. Not an easy fix. They had to come up a little over two inches to get my camber close to level. The tops had to extend above the structure instead of below it. Reinstalled the hood to check clearance. There is plenty of room to fit the stock RX8 struts under the hood without any hood modifications.


If I were to do this again, I would tack the strut top plates at the top of the 3" pipe sections. Just good enough to temporarily hold the car's weight. Then install/weld everything as I did. Removing the tacks and sliding the plates up or down the tubes to the proper position would be the last step after checking with the weight on the wheels. It would have been a lot easier and cleaner. I tried guesstimating how much it would drop. I was way off. The suspension barely moved when I dropped the weight onto the wheels.

 

Started on stripping out the rearend so I can fit the RX8 independent rear. Kind of hate to take it all out after the headaches to get it in there, but independent rear and matching suspension that are engineered to work together. So, say goodbye to the GSL-SE solid axle. *sniffles*

 

Now I'm committed ... or should be.

 

Still at it. More time available now that I'm done driving for harvest. My method is kind of like carving the turkey as I'm using the original frame as much as possible. Using cut off wheels and carve a little here and a little there trying to slide the framework into place. It would be faster with the plasma cutter, but I do not want to cut out too much if I can help it. It looked a lot easier when nonsensebureau did his. I'm sure his rendition will be a lot cleaner than mine as he replaced entire sections of frame rail with fabricated pieces. Word of warning to anyone else trying this. You have to cut out almost the entire frame rail in one spot and lots of trimming in others. My SA has the factory frame reinforcements that the early cars, without bins or seats, came with. This allows me some leeway when cutting on the frame. If you have the FB with the bins, or seats, it will not have this and will likely need reinforcement (either with temporary bars or a roll cage) before cutting on the frame. I plan to run a cage, but don't have it in yet, so I am watching for warping. So far it has not been a problem. The cage should alleviate worries about frame strength.

 

... and the pictures for the above post. It's in and level at all the mounting points. I had to build a platform on one of my dollies so that the rear suspension sits level and at the correct height. It is set it up at 26" from the ground to the stock fender lip. This should place the rear of the car 3/4" higher than the front with 335/30ZR18s at the back and 285/30 ZR 18s up front.. The rear mounting points are flush on the stock frame rails at this height. The body kit will be covering the ugly mess when I trim out the wheel wells/outer lip for the necessary clearance to allow for suspension travel.




As you can see there was a lot of trimming that had to be done to sink that framework far enough up so it would sit correctly. Undoing my previous modifications made this harder than if it had been stock.

P.S. trying to fit modern large wheels under a car designed for 23.2" tall tires can be challenging. Unfortunately the selection for short performance tires is almost non-existent anymore. The 285/30s are some of the shortest wide tires I could find and they are 24.7" tall.

 

... and 3 more pictures to show where the rear mounts sit on the stock uncut portion of the frame. Once again this is just the way I decided to do it, I am sure others have better ways to make this happen. Now that I I had it all lined up, I welded some extra plate on the car frame to the the suspension frame to keep it from moving on me while I drilled the holes. I also cut some access holes in the outside of the frame rails. I used the rubber inserts I had left over from my truck build to close the holes while maintaining access to the nuts on the through bolts. This allowed me to use a shorter bolt and kept me from having to put another hole through to the interior. I did find that my super duper fuel tank that I bought now has a fitment problem. It was fine with the straight axle, but the rear mounts for the IRS are too far back and angled. The tank will hit the suspension framework if mounted in the normal position. The solution looks like it is going to be to trim the rear cross support so I can scoot the tank back the extra few inches for clearance. I should have waited on the tank until after I had the suspension in. OH well, We have hammer and torch, it will fit ... one way or another.

Locating the rear suspension to the body. I lined the center of the tire to the center of the flares, NOT the irregularly shaped wheel well.


Temporarily welded in the framework so I can't bump it and knock it out of alignment (again).


This is where the rear mount sits on the stock frame rail. My fancy access holes with the rubber inserts are cut in just above the mount on the frame.


P.S. a little late, but I meant to mention it earlier. I got a good chuckle out of the hood prop comment Brett.

 

Always a pleasure to see these updates! Awesome work, this thing will be a hoot. And will look incredible with tires that wide!

 

Hope everyone had a good turkey day. A small update on how I am building the forward mounts on the rear subframe. I notched what remains of the frame to slide a piece of 3" wide 3/8 flat stock that is 8" long into the frame. The mounts sit to the outside of the original frame rails, so it requires building a pad for the mount. The plate will be welded in and reinforced once level. The frame will be rebuilt around it (eventually). The plate will require a slight notch to clear where the subframe curves upward, it looks to be pretty minor though. I did get the SCCA roll cage from Summit Racing, so that is a good thing. I still haven't heard back from Rotary Engineering on the GTO body kit. Brandon is looking into shipping for me. I hope to get the body kit soonish as I'm going to need to fit it for some upcoming mods and to figure out my wheels. Forgeline Wheels says that they can modify my existing wheels for the 9 inches of backspace I will require on the rears. Should be in business on that front anyway.

Wheel well side:

Inside of frame rail:

Not as neatly done as others, but it will give you an idea of what needs to be done (and where) on the stock frame rails to place the front mounts.

 

If you want access to a 4x8 Plasma CNC I have one. Just bring your metal and CAD files and have fun. Use it all you want.

 

Thanks. I will keep you in mind if I run into a situation where I need it. I need to get back over there one of these days. It has been a long time since I attended a get together in KC.

 

It has been a bit since my last update. I have been working on it pretty steadily and the car is back on it's own wheels (Hallelujah!). I also have the body kit on order and Brandon is having it built. The biggest problem I ran into was getting the rear subframe positioned correctly. The placement in the wheel wells kept throwing me off. When I measured it out, I found that the wheel openings are not quite the same side to side. I gave up on that, finally, and just measured an equal distance from the end of the frame rails to the rear subframe mount. It appears to be correct. I replaced the springs with Racing Beat RX8 performance springs and built the strut mounts to leave the back of the car slightly higher than the front (approx. 1", maybe a little less). I cut out the outer wheel openings to make the room necessary to run the larger diameter/ wider tires. I am also in process of installing the roll cage. The cage is also being a bit fiddly as I have to make room for access, This will be a street driven car so I cannot place the bars just anywhere. A Dukes of Hazzard entry would be less than ideal. As the saying goes this post is worthless without pictures, so here goes.

Here is how the car is sitting in it's (hopefully) final form.

The amount I cut out of the outer sheet metal. It leaves me 1 3/4 inches to the top of the tire. This is the limit of the top of the original wheel well. Needless to say the inner and outer portions of the wheel well are heavily modified. It was cut 3 1/2 inches below the body line above the well. I may need to trim some more, but I want to see how the body kit fits before going any further.

A picture with the trimmed wheel opening.

Rear strut mounts. the upper part of the strut will be bolted to the roll cage and a bar tying the suspension mounts to the cage will installed just forward and a bit behind the struts.

 

... and the pictures from the roll cage installation. These are my solutions and comments on the kit. Hopefully it gives anyone else trying to install a cage some idea of what they are in for. The car is meant to be a street driven vehicle that looks like the IMSA racers from the early 80s. In no way is it meant to be an actual competitive race car. My intention for this cage was mainly for the extra safety and to eliminate chassis flex. Plus it looks cool, ... 'cuz race car.
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I currently have the basic framework in and heavily tacked. I need to drop the cage straight down so I can weld the top of the joints along with the top gussets, clean it up, then get etching primer on it. I can then jack it back up, get the chassis level, and final weld the framework in with the base plates. At that point I will add all the other reinforcing bars/ gussets. The cage needs to be done before I dare unbolt the suspension for closing up the frame and finish welding. I have enough problems with things flexing without making it any worse. The cage kit is from Rhodes Race Cars. It was the SCCA .120 wall 1 5/8" DOM tube kit. Nice quality tubing and kit, but some of the fit wasn't the greatest for what I am trying to do (which is to be expected when trying to do custom work).
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The first issue was the main hoop support bars were bent inward at the bottom to meet the frame rails (good). In order to get it in there though I would have had to cut the frame rails even worse than I already have since they intersected the rails when at the correct height (bad). I used my tubing bender to put about a 30 degree bend on the bottom of the hoop supports so it slides in on each side of the frame rails, my bends suck compared to Rhodes bends. This way the hoop can be supported at the bottom on base plates rather than cutting and welding the tubes to the relatively thin frame rails. I plan to do a lot of additional welding to tie the hoop into the frame rails, wheel wells, and the front suspension mount so I shouldn't have to worry about my bends affecting the strength. The other problem with the main hoop was that with the supports bent inward it left no straight upward support on the sides and nowhere to tie the door bars into the cage. I had them bend me two extra bars with a 57 degree bend near the top so I can place an upright bar directly behind the door opening which will tie the outside door rail structure to the main hoop just below the middle bend located behind the door opening. The bottom door bars fit great with this bar and where I placed the A pillar bars. I plan to use swing out bars for the upper part of the door, mainly for sh**s and giggles as this will no longer be a normal SCCA sanctioned cage. It might be OK to do this with an inspection, but I do not know if this is true or not.

The next issue was that the rear bars to tie in the back of the frame were too short for what I needed. I wanted to run the bars all the way back to the mounts for the rear bumper shock mounts inside the frame at the back. I used two of the bars they provided as diagonals for the doors and re-notched them. This allows me to bolt the strut tops to the cage and run bars down to the middle and rear suspension mounting points.

The struts tops will be bolted to tabs welded here.

The overhead hoop was great and only required the normal fitting and notching.


The biggest obstacle was the A pillar bars. They were bent at a 45 degree angle which would place the upright portion in the door opening. It would not have been a big issue for a dedicated race car, but a major pain in the behind for a street driven car. I had them bend me two new bars with a 57 degree angle (60 degree would have been better). I tried to do it myself but ended up screwing up one of the bars so badly that I really didn't want to use it. I placed the bend of the bar behind the dash mounts on the kick panels. This allowed me to bolt in the stock dash framework. I know, race cars don't care about the dash and interior, but this is a street car that is supposed to look like a race car. So, no tin can interior for me.



I will post more pictures as I get the rest of it figured out and installed. I also ordered an RX8 steering column so I can get to that soon as well.

 

Wow! You really took that cage to another level, hats off to you. I love how you are tying the rear suspension into it. Car looks great and I love seeing the progress!

 

Thanks Brett. Here is a better look at where I placed the bend on the A pillar bars. The dash frame only required very minor trimming on the driver's side to bolt right on. The metal that was trimmed was the extra metal on the side, nothing structurally necessary was trimmed. The side HVAC vents will need to be moved, but hopefully nothing else.

 

My Lincoln 170T welder burned at least one resistor and probably more on the circuit board last week. It was only 25 years old. WTH? So I had to buy a new shiny. A Lincoln 215 MPI. I got it last night, read the directions, hooked it up and tried it out. Seems to work very well, but bit different from my old unit. It is going to take a while to get used to this new machine. Thinking I was going to finally get some of this welding done this morning, I fired up my space heater. It was barely putting out any heat, so I had to go down to Home Depot and buy another space heater as well. I really didn't need this %^&* after paying for the rather pricey body kit.

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Quick update. Still working on the cage. Nothing is ever as simple as you first thought it was going to be.
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Final placement for the bar across the dash area. I'm pretty sure it is going to clear most everything under the dash. I know, famous last words and all that.
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Dash fitted and top pad trimmed for A pillar bars. I am hoping to retain the side vents, but it's going to be close. If I was to do it again, I would try to get the A pillar bar closer to the corner where the pillar meets the cowl.
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Bar I had to install behind the door opening so I could install the door bar running from the front A pillar hoop to the rear of the door opening, plus lots of fiddly reinforcement pieces including the two cross bars across the middle and back of the cage.
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I hope to have an update on my steering shaft situation soon.

 

Looking good, great progress!

 

body kit done and being shipped.

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jungle gym anyone?

 

Hell yeah! Can't wait to see it on there

 

I'm pretty stoked about this. The front fenders are actually exactly the way I wanted them. I will post the picture that Rotary Engineering has on their site. It is Tommy Kendall's #75 car in Malibu Gran Prix livery. This was a later version of the car with the front fenders open behind the front wheels. I wanted the early version as used on this car and Racing Beat's GTO car. Unbeknownst to me when I ordered it, that appears to be what he is going to deliver. Now if I could just find some pictures of someone that was running this body kit on an SA chassis in GTU/GTO it would give me some guidelines on reproducing the look of an actual car that was racing back then.
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