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? With the experiment? Or oil temps? Oil temps are awesome around 200. They averaged around 215-220 and got up to 230. That is much higher than what I would like to see. Almost 220 on a 90-95mph drive is unacceptable. 165-170!! HELL YEAH.
My experiment? Total over all under hood temps and lowering the intake temps. I really think I can lower my intake air (at the filters) by around 20° on average.
Also come to my own conclusion about what oil works best (for me). It is frustrating when you do a tremendous amount of research and all of the "experts" have different opinions for something simple like what oil weight, dino, synthetic , etc.
I love reading posts where people actually show some numbers with their experiences.
Those oil temps are normal. What is the benefit of operating at 165 degrees vs 210 degrees? Assuming you have decent oil. Endurance race cars see oil temps sustained well over 200.
You are also correlating speed to oil temps. That doesn't make any sense. Going 95mph making 250whp vs 500whp can make a massive difference in temperatures and stress on the engine.
Those oil temps are normal. What is the benefit of operating at 165 degrees vs 210 degrees? Assuming you have decent oil. Endurance race cars see oil temps sustained well over 200.
You are also correlating speed to oil temps. That doesn't make any sense. Going 95mph making 250whp vs 500whp can make a massive difference in temperatures and stress on the engine.
In typing this post I assume a lot of people have seen the "thermal management" thread from awhile ago. I am not basing the temps on speed. Just the differences in temps. If the car is at 90mph with no real load on the engine and the temps are over 200. More like 210°, how do you think it would be on a track or multiple full boost runs. 210° is too high for me. If she has hit 230° under light load (which she has) then she will probably be over 250 on a track. Which again imo is pushing it. 260 to me starts getting catastrophic. I hope that makes sense. 165 is actually pretty cool imo, but I will take it. I know when she is on the track she will have a 40° buffer when compared to the single beat up cooler. Agree on a hp comparison to an extent. I'm probably in the 290-310 whp range. I would expect it to be running cooler than the stock 220ish range since most of the mods are removing heat from the engine. DP, hiflow, etc.
As for the experiment. The temps are taken at all different levels of driving. From light load, multiple full boost runs, heat soaked traffic etc. Some of the temps on my car were so high that I would not take it to the track. Again if she is hitting or has hit 230° on a light load situation etc is going to happen on a track? Now I am starting to get to the point where she could go.
Thanks Tom for the link. I have checked just about everything out on the oil temps.... oh man, now I am onto the plug temps lol.!!!
You'll never get to 165, and you wouldn't want to anyways. The cars run better above 180.
Have you flushed the coolant and checked the coolant/water mix? In FL you can get away with more water, which will help with efficiency. You still need some coolant for lubrication and anti-corrosive properties.
Your oil coolers help, but your other mods don't actually remove any heat. They just remove hot things. Your cooling efficiency is dominated by your radiator and airflow through it. You can't run an AC condenser, and manage track temperatures with the stock engine format.
The old endurance FD's ditched the condenser, upgraded the stock mount radiator, ran a big intercooler, and a fresh air intake. And, they won. And, in 1999 Mazda addressed all engineering issues for the FD by switching to a bigger radiator air intake, cold air intake, and upgraded radiator.
Lol definitely not expecting 165 on track. 165 was on expressway doing 95mph. I am hoping for below 230 on the track to be honest.
Rad is about 70% water with coolant and purple ice or whatever additive RP has. I have to finish closing up the gaps on the rad. Hoping to be at or below 85c on the water temp for spirited driving, but I have no idea for water temp on track. I guess no more than 100-105 I have to look that one up again. The avg water temp is already down after the oil cookers so that is promising.
Thx for link Narfle. Yes Smokey has one of my favorite build threads. Looks like I am going in semi the same route although I will never see nearly as much track time. This is a street build that we'll say see... 15%roll racing, 10%1/4, 25% track, 40% spirited back road like "tail of the dragon", and 10% just cruising around.
@TomU
I finally got a chance to read that whole link (oil test blog). Wow man. What an eye opener that is. Seems pretty factual and not too biased. Of course I still am always semi cautious with anything on the web.
Makes me rethink the Royal Purple though for sure. And redline for that matter. Now that my oil temps will be under control I should be able to drop the viscosity back down. I will keep my testing going for a bit though with the gtx 20w50, and will switch to Idemitsu for their 10w30 and 20w50. I wish I could find a 10w40 I liked. Oil analysis is actually not too expensive. I may send some in just for the hell of it. 20w does seem so thick for startup, but then again it probably clings longer than a lightweight. HAHAHA who truely knows. I know the RX8s where having an issue and some of it could probably be linked to the 5w20.
So I change plugs and install twin power and now she has a boost issue. Lol.... darnit. She will give a solid 7psi and creep too 8 with nothing more. She is still running off the Watergate, but before she was hitting 11-11.3psi. I have no apparent hose leaks or noises from the turbo, smoke etc. All else seems fine and normal. Vacuum at idle still the same. 2nd turbo still kicks in the same just both are 8psi max.
Leading and trailing plug. The trailing is pretty old with unknown miles. The leading probably had 1000 miles. Leading is the 2nd pic
I did want to add that after I installed the 2nd oil cooler the intake temp went up about 25°f. When I say intake temp I am speaking of the sensor I have mounted with the cone filters. The airtemp on apex seems to be around 2°c cooler. Odd. Of course the cooler will put off heat. That is its job, but I am a little surprised it is that kind of difference. I will swap the sensor out to confirm the temp change.
There's a bunch of stuff that affect the air temps going into your filters. It could be the oil cooler, or something else, or probably combination. I wouldn't worry about it unless your filters are sitting on top of your oil cooler
I am not worried about temp Tom.... I do find it interesting and it does make sense, I just wouldn't think it would have made that much of a difference. There was nothing over there before and now there is braided line and an aluminum box with 200° oil Oil in it close to the intakes. Always a compromise with whatever we do to these things I guess.
What bothers me is the boost.... why does it bother me so much??? Thinking turbos are fried from when I lost oil press for a short time... Again, they sound normal, no smoke, and boost hits on time. I just got back from a run without the hks tp just for the fark of it and it is still the same. 8.4psi max. I will take out the intercooler again and go back over my steps from replacing my hood latch cable, installing the hks tp and plugs. Maybe there is a hose I knocked off or something that I just dont know about. Very frustrating lol. These dual oil coolers are turning into a downward slope as I still have seepage on the left one that needs to be addressed and it just seems other issues are raising their heads.
So I re-traced my steps and reinstalled the hks tp and intercooler. Looked closely at every line around where I was at. Looked at just about any line that is able to be seen for the turbo system. All looked good. Took her for a spin and low and behold 9.4psi. To be honest I think it is the temperature outside. It is almost 10° cooler, no sun, no traffic (no heat soak). The nights I was spiking up to 11-11.3 where pretty cool outside.
I think I need to get a controller. Running off the waste gate seems very intermittent. I mean technically am I not suppose to boost over 7psi off the spring anyway?
Just a quick update. I installed a manual boost controller. She is a solid 10 or a tiny more. I will take her out tonight when it cools down and see how she does and how she holds the boost. I will check inj dust and afr. I will probably raise her to 11 and leave it at that.
Strut bar installed, and my redneck engineering heat shield for the intake is installed. I think that is about it. Still have a seepage on left pil cooler that needs to be addressed.
Lol. It has actually proven to reduce the temp about 10°f by the filters. This is even before the foam and side tape is added. I will put a duct on soon from either the front by the foglamps or from the right brake vent (front lip.. until I am ready to duct mu brakes). Duct wont help with heat soak, but once you start moving she will definitely help. I actually am considering purchasing some smaller led rou d fog lamps to help open up the front a bit. I sh okuld probably eliminate them, but wi think they look too cool.
Coilovers installed, front sway bar was upgraded, and wheels/tires ordered. I went with the original plan of enkei kojins. 18x8.5 and 18x9.5. 235 front and 275 rear. They should be here in a few days so we will see how things go. I will get some before and after pics with the wheels. All bushing in front look awesome and the jury is still out of the rear.
The rear seems a bit loose. I will see how the 275s work out. If she still seems too loose we will figure something out.
Pic is of the initial stance. Once the other wheels are on we will see what we can do with ride height.
Kojins 18x8.5 and 9.5
235 and 275 installed. Potenza pole positions
rear offset is a little small at 30, but we will make it work.
Soon off to get her long overdue alignment and hopefully finalized ride height dialed in.
Thx. Shift boot was from Redline. Good quality leather. I think it was around 50.00, but takes a little while to get it. It's from like Sweden or somewhere up there.
I definitely need a pull and roll on the rear. Got a little tire rub on the rear over a really hard dip. I am taking her back to pettit to change the dampers also. The rear is kicking out a little too easy for my liking. After that is finished up it is time to change the pads and paint the calipers. Besides that the brakes and suspension will be complete.
NEXT IS WATER INJECTION!!!!! And probably some bigger secondary injectors. My duties are in the low 80% at 10.5ish psi. I have a lot of research to do on the injectors and further reading on the water. I want a simple boost activated system. I would like to run pre turbo and post IC. I am still a little nervous about pre turbo for possible blade damage, but would love to get the charge temps down and maybe lower the temps of the turbos all together.
I would like to run around 12-13psi on the stock twins and feel safe. I know my tune is solid for it, but I would love to lower these temps. This Miami heat just hurts. I've been running 96 octane, but damn that gets expensive.
After this I will probably start on the rear diff.
08-12-18, 10:15 PM
