IV-Rotor Build: 12 plugs/ 9 bearings/ 8 ports = 1 monster
#78
Do a barrel roll!
iTrader: (4)
For my sake, I hope you have some time-lapse editing abilities. You've been building that thing for the past year and a half
Ok, Im done for fear of no 4-rotor rides for me if I continue In all seriousness, very cool and I would be super-proud of building something like this. I like your work because even though it may not "look"as pretty as some others, its always very mechanically sound and alot of effort goes into making things fit and work as they should.
Ok, Im done for fear of no 4-rotor rides for me if I continue In all seriousness, very cool and I would be super-proud of building something like this. I like your work because even though it may not "look"as pretty as some others, its always very mechanically sound and alot of effort goes into making things fit and work as they should.
#79
For my sake, I hope you have some time-lapse editing abilities. You've been building that thing for the past year and a half
Ok, Im done for fear of no 4-rotor rides for me if I continue In all seriousness, very cool and I would be super-proud of building something like this. I like your work because even though it may not "look"as pretty as some others, its always very mechanically sound and alot of effort goes into making things fit and work as they should.
Ok, Im done for fear of no 4-rotor rides for me if I continue In all seriousness, very cool and I would be super-proud of building something like this. I like your work because even though it may not "look"as pretty as some others, its always very mechanically sound and alot of effort goes into making things fit and work as they should.
#80
Eh
iTrader: (56)
Logan... As this thing o' beauty comes together you have me wondering whether I was wrong (again). I went with the 3 rotor because it fit well and I didn't want added weight. You made the damned thing smaller and lighter. Surprise! Can't wait to hear the thing and see what it does.
And, again, what a job on the complete redesign of Mazda's old motor. A complete re-think of cooling and oiling and ignition. My motor is kind of 175 hp per rotor, so, a detuned version of a 4 rotor might have an easy 500 whp? Okay, I don't want or need 500 hp, so still probably not for me, but what a great powerplant that would be for the right guys.
G
And, again, what a job on the complete redesign of Mazda's old motor. A complete re-think of cooling and oiling and ignition. My motor is kind of 175 hp per rotor, so, a detuned version of a 4 rotor might have an easy 500 whp? Okay, I don't want or need 500 hp, so still probably not for me, but what a great powerplant that would be for the right guys.
G
This is not a conversation for this thread though. Logan impresses once again and it will be sick to see a 600+hp NA rotary FD. If Gordon hadn't said he was second guessing himself again I wouldn't have commented. This is a sick build and I wish to take nothing away from it. Hopefully those reading will fork out the money to Defined for a 4 rotor build if they wish to stay NA.
#81
I'm glad you got your car in Logan's hands as I think it is finally moving in the right direction. Either way I still think an NA 3 rotor is a terrible decision. Even Logan's car with the 3 rotor which was probably way more car then yours still struggled to compare to the powerband of a proper setup sequential 2rotot or small single 2 rotor. This 4 rotor setup is legit. However, you NA 3 rotor guys that didn't build your car for the track are kidding yourself if you think it is comparable to a decent 2 rotor turbo setup.
This is not a conversation for this thread though. Logan impresses once again and it will be sick to see a 600+hp NA rotary FD. If Gordon hadn't said he was second guessing himself again I wouldn't have commented. This is a sick build and I wish to take nothing away from it. Hopefully those reading will fork out the money to Defined for a 4 rotor build if they wish to stay NA.
This is not a conversation for this thread though. Logan impresses once again and it will be sick to see a 600+hp NA rotary FD. If Gordon hadn't said he was second guessing himself again I wouldn't have commented. This is a sick build and I wish to take nothing away from it. Hopefully those reading will fork out the money to Defined for a 4 rotor build if they wish to stay NA.
I was MORE than happy with a tiny dick 480rwhp 3-rotor Rx7. I, like a few people on the board, do not need a continual increase of horsepower to make myself satisfied because there is a set amount that works. I leave dick swinging to the other guys. To each his own. But owning a shop, sometimes you have to flex shop muscle and hence a 4-rotor being born.
#82
Eh
iTrader: (56)
It wasn't directed at you or your shop Logan, never my intention and I want to make that clear. This is not me back tracking simply having respect for what you guys are capable of. However, Gordon is on here claiming 525hp. I've seen your dyno graph which far surpasses any other NA 3 rotor(non pp). The torque that Gordon claims is his reason for this swap simply isn't there. Never has been and never will be. I said it was useless for someone to go NA 3 rotor outside a track car and I stand by that statement all day everyday. Please compare Gordon's 2900lb FD against any FD running a simple 58-62mm turbo setup and it won't be pretty. The power curve will barely rival that of stock twins on 14lbs, let alone BNRs. I will never understand someone going NA 3 rotor for a street car. Is my opinion the only opinion? No, but I don't try to rationalize my decisions with made up numbers and hopes of what could be. I've said enough and I really don't want this in your thread. I've just seen certain members of this forum make bad decision time and time again over the years then try to justify it by spewing garbage then act shocked when things don't work out or no one is impressed besides clueless members. The best Gordon ever did was get the car to you, hopefully it's all he imagined.
#85
RX 4BPT
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Huddersfield, England
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I would gladly swap my 2rotor BP SINGLE TURBO, for a three rotor NA setup. Gordon has said many times that he chose his setup for a better balanced street car rather than a turbo monster.
Running a turbo is essentially a variable compression ratio motor so torque will always be higher etc
J
Lets face it too, ported turbo 2 rotors sound the best on tick over but at full chat can be very annoying. Whereas a 3 rotor NA is badass sounding everywhere
If I get the opportunity to swap to a 3 rotor NA PP I will do it.
Running a turbo is essentially a variable compression ratio motor so torque will always be higher etc
J
Lets face it too, ported turbo 2 rotors sound the best on tick over but at full chat can be very annoying. Whereas a 3 rotor NA is badass sounding everywhere
If I get the opportunity to swap to a 3 rotor NA PP I will do it.
Last edited by Grant M; 06-15-13 at 03:43 AM.
#86
RX 4BPT
Join Date: Feb 2011
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So Loagan are you going to rev the car to 12,000 rpm if it makes the power up there? As we all know Mazda took their engine after the winning race and revved it out to 10,000 and made 900HP!!
#87
Rotor Head Extreme
iTrader: (8)
To each his own. Personally I can't stand the laggy power delivery of a high powered single turbo on a street car. They suck for stop and go traffic and their absolutely dangerous when all that power kicks in all at once. The available bottom end torque of a na 3 rotor means you dont have to drive the **** out of if to get the most out of it on the street.
I've just seen certain members of this forum make bad decision time and time again over the years then try to justify
So it's not a mistake for someone to take a little tiny 13b, double it's factory rated hp, and expect to get 50+thousand miles out of it without any rebuilds? Na rotarys will aways be more long term reliable than any turbo version.
#88
Eh
iTrader: (56)
Originally Posted by gmonsen
My motor is kind of 175 hp per rotor,
G
G
#89
Eh
iTrader: (56)
To each his own. Personally I can't stand the laggy power delivery of a high powered single turbo on a street car. They suck for stop and go traffic and their absolutely dangerous when all that power kicks in all at once. The available bottom end torque of a na 3 rotor means you dont have to drive the **** out of if to get the most out of it on the street.
So it's not a mistake for someone to take a little tiny 13b, double it's factory rated hp, and expect to get 50+thousand miles out of it without any rebuilds? Na rotarys will aways be more long term reliable than any turbo version.
So it's not a mistake for someone to take a little tiny 13b, double it's factory rated hp, and expect to get 50+thousand miles out of it without any rebuilds? Na rotarys will aways be more long term reliable than any turbo version.
And where is the extra reliability from these 3 rotor setups, if I judged by this forum it appears 3 rotors last 1/2 as long as 2 rotors. Even with the 3 rotor build threads taking years to complete the owners seem to go through more engines. Heating and oiling issues are magnified in a 3 rotor.
Once again, this is no insult to Logan/Defined and can all gladly be removed. What Logan has done is incredible and fits what he is trying to accomplish on track. This was towards Gordon but when I saw his comments in this thread I responded here. This should make the Modified event that much more anticipated and fun for those involved.
#91
Rotor Head Extreme
iTrader: (8)
You guys feel so personally attacked by my comments you can't even read them clearly and look at it with an open mind. A small singled FD will have a better power and torque curve than your NA 3 rotor. I don't know if you are comparing old scholl T78 builds to your 3 rotors or what?
In your above reply to Gordon, you said nothing previous about cost. You should to be more specific when you start ranting about how useless na swaps are (which made it personal to others). Those who pay to have the swap or do it themselves know what their getting into. You would be surprised at what cost I have in my own conversion as mine is 100% DIY. Lastly I'm far from having a closed mind. It's very easy and cheap to achieve the power results of a single conversion. If that's what I wanted, then that's that I would have done. In the end, I simply would have had just another singled powered fd. Just because YOU cant justify the cost, doesn't mean others can't. Lastly, there's nothing revolutionary about adding boost to make more power. That's easy. If I wanted easy then I would have NEVER learned the things I have over the years. Getting the most out an NA application takes a complete understanding of engine breathing, intake, and exhaust systems as a whole. Figuring out that balance takes your rotary knowledge to a whole different level. Sadly, that's a level most turbo guys never give themselves a chance to experience.
#92
Defined Autoworks
iTrader: (6)
Guys please keep the junk out of our thread, thanks. I understand there was no insult made directly to us but all of the n/a 3 rotor bashing is ridiculous. Last time I checked our n/a 3 rotor has never had a reliability issue, it's the same engine as back in 2004 when it was originally built. The only thing it ever came apart for was to have more custom things done to it, to make more power.
Im just going to put this here since people seem to forget.
https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...istory-937570/
We don't have any issues building turbo cars either, and this car got spanked by the "no power" n/a 3 rotor. Power to weight, and lag time is a hard thing to overcome when the n/a engine is almost making the same power.
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...-rotor-929379/
Like Logan stated earlier his n/a 3 rotor had no problem in a straight line with a couple 2 rotor turbo cars supposedly at 450-500 wheel range at deals gap, and many other cars before and after that time.
I don't understand why our advertising efforts are always stomped on with stupid quarreling in our threads? If the fact that we make huge n/a power is still foggy Im not sure what more we can do.
Any reliability comment is absolutely hilarious. Like I said same engine since 2004, and has had thousands of miles put on it at various road courses (mostly Mid-Ohio). This engine has never even broken a sweat, let alone any problems internally. I don't care about any one else's 3 rotor success, they are not the one's building our engines or developing our products.
Like Logan said earlier we are not shy to line up next to someone, never have been never will be. All of our car's always run, and Im surprised to hear any one would question that.
Thanks
Im just going to put this here since people seem to forget.
https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...istory-937570/
We don't have any issues building turbo cars either, and this car got spanked by the "no power" n/a 3 rotor. Power to weight, and lag time is a hard thing to overcome when the n/a engine is almost making the same power.
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...-rotor-929379/
Like Logan stated earlier his n/a 3 rotor had no problem in a straight line with a couple 2 rotor turbo cars supposedly at 450-500 wheel range at deals gap, and many other cars before and after that time.
I don't understand why our advertising efforts are always stomped on with stupid quarreling in our threads? If the fact that we make huge n/a power is still foggy Im not sure what more we can do.
Any reliability comment is absolutely hilarious. Like I said same engine since 2004, and has had thousands of miles put on it at various road courses (mostly Mid-Ohio). This engine has never even broken a sweat, let alone any problems internally. I don't care about any one else's 3 rotor success, they are not the one's building our engines or developing our products.
Like Logan said earlier we are not shy to line up next to someone, never have been never will be. All of our car's always run, and Im surprised to hear any one would question that.
Thanks
#93
Defined Autoworks
iTrader: (6)
You guys feel so personally attacked by my comments you can't even read them clearly and look at it with an open mind. A small singled FD will have a better power and torque curve than your NA 3 rotor. I don't know if you are comparing old scholl T78 builds to your 3 rotors or what?
And where is the extra reliability from these 3 rotor setups, if I judged by this forum it appears 3 rotors last 1/2 as long as 2 rotors. Even with the 3 rotor build threads taking years to complete the owners seem to go through more engines. Heating and oiling issues are magnified in a 3 rotor.
Once again, this is no insult to Logan/Defined and can all gladly be removed. What Logan has done is incredible and fits what he is trying to accomplish on track. This was towards Gordon but when I saw his comments in this thread I responded here. This should make the Modified event that much more anticipated and fun for those involved.
And where is the extra reliability from these 3 rotor setups, if I judged by this forum it appears 3 rotors last 1/2 as long as 2 rotors. Even with the 3 rotor build threads taking years to complete the owners seem to go through more engines. Heating and oiling issues are magnified in a 3 rotor.
Once again, this is no insult to Logan/Defined and can all gladly be removed. What Logan has done is incredible and fits what he is trying to accomplish on track. This was towards Gordon but when I saw his comments in this thread I responded here. This should make the Modified event that much more anticipated and fun for those involved.
The biggest problems with the n/a 3 rotor is the shop/ person building most of the time.
#94
Eh
iTrader: (56)
Never once my intention to knock you guys or what you do. I've had nothing but praise for Defined for a long time. Though I don't agree with NA 3 rotors in a street car( I think I've made that clear), I believe you guys are one of a handful of shops in the country that not only deliver quality setups but conduct your self well and have a good forum presence willing to share info.
Gordon has made several comments over the years that really rub me the wrong way along with some of his actions. Your thread was not the place to address it I just couldn't overlook his 175hp per rotor comment.
I'll make a new thread next week comparing 2rotor turbo setups vs NA 3 rotor and I am done with messing up your thread.
Once again the work Defined is turning out is top notch. Add to that they are willing to share a lot of information and that makes them a great asset to the community. Carry on with this great build and I truly wish you nothing but the best.
Gordon has made several comments over the years that really rub me the wrong way along with some of his actions. Your thread was not the place to address it I just couldn't overlook his 175hp per rotor comment.
I'll make a new thread next week comparing 2rotor turbo setups vs NA 3 rotor and I am done with messing up your thread.
Once again the work Defined is turning out is top notch. Add to that they are willing to share a lot of information and that makes them a great asset to the community. Carry on with this great build and I truly wish you nothing but the best.
#95
Defined Autoworks
iTrader: (6)
Never once my intention to knock you guys or what you do. I've had nothing but praise for Defined for a long time. Though I don't agree with NA 3 rotors in a street car( I think I've made that clear), I believe you guys are one of a handful of shops in the country that not only deliver quality setups but conduct your self well and have a good forum presence willing to share info.
Gordon has made several comments over the years that really rub me the wrong way along with some of his actions. Your thread was not the place to address it I just couldn't overlook his 175hp per rotor comment.
I'll make a new thread next week comparing 2rotor turbo setups vs NA 3 rotor and I am done with messing up your thread.
Once again the work Defined is turning out is top notch. Add to that they are willing to share a lot of information and that makes them a great asset to the community. Carry on with this great build and I truly wish you nothing but the best.
Gordon has made several comments over the years that really rub me the wrong way along with some of his actions. Your thread was not the place to address it I just couldn't overlook his 175hp per rotor comment.
I'll make a new thread next week comparing 2rotor turbo setups vs NA 3 rotor and I am done with messing up your thread.
Once again the work Defined is turning out is top notch. Add to that they are willing to share a lot of information and that makes them a great asset to the community. Carry on with this great build and I truly wish you nothing but the best.
#96
Lives on the Forum
iTrader: (6)
The whole HP thing is quite interesting. When I first started my 3 rotor build, only one guy had eclipsed the 600 WHP mark and that was used as the max level anyone would want and out of a 2 rotor, the goal was 400 WHP. Now guys routinely break 500 on a 2 rotor and my 675 WHP setup is viewed as low to middle of the road for a 3 rotor. Go figure
For me, the thing to think about is how much is too much usable HP? I don't drive my car at 675 but keep it a 12 PSI and 575 as it's a handful even at the lower level. And track guys are always around 300-350 as it's the balance of the FD and deliverable power that makes the difference for them. So, I'd think the NA 3 rotor guys are looking for a broad power band and a great handling car. To each his own.
#97
Rotor Head Extreme
iTrader: (8)
Now I can't imagine Logans 4rotor around VIR at 600+ whp. I could barely handle Fritz track preped fd at only 300whp. It sucks that I'm gonna miss my chance to ride in all these NA beast in the fall VIR event due to Sevenstock. Hell, I still wanna another ride your black beauty when the rebuild is complete. That way I can feel that boosted 20b rush again.
#98
20b turbo's are in a league of their own. After building and driving quite a few at 600-750rwhp that rush when the turbo hits always leaves you feeling like a time warp just occurred. And afterward I always feel a tad irresponsible because even as a moderate driver, you wonder if everything was truly under control lol. The average 20b turbo car weighs between 2900-3100 depending on transmission choices and will keep up with any "new" heavy cars of today with 850+rwhp @ 3400lbs.
Then you have my crazy *** putting a 4-rotor into a 2370lbs chassis. If it breaches 600+rwhp it would take a 3400lb car making near 1000rwhp to go head to head.
Gotta love our lightweight Rx7's
Then you have my crazy *** putting a 4-rotor into a 2370lbs chassis. If it breaches 600+rwhp it would take a 3400lb car making near 1000rwhp to go head to head.
Gotta love our lightweight Rx7's
#99
Do a barrel roll!
iTrader: (4)
You have no idea how many friends I have with Fbodies or Mustangs talking **** because my car will be "so slow" with only ~375RWHP. No one seems to understand that power in a ~2600lb FD with 4:30gears and traction is completely different from it in a 3600lb camaro or mustang. Im not into street racing at all, and am usually completely oblivious to everyone elses' dick swinging contests.. but there's a few cars around here I really want to lay some smack down on