Looking really nice Lenny! That is a lot of customized work. Also see the fender issue was resolved :nod:

Did you see what Simon ended up using for the velocity stacks? Might want to consider this. Solves the problem of the stack sucking something in:

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1404403670

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1404403670

^Those seem restrictive to me. Any before and after dyno plots to confirm there effectivness?

Thanks David. Yea I went up there myself. Fedex is the Devil...
And yes I did see his solution with the individual filters. Im not 100% sure what will be done for filtration. Logan and I were discussing it yesterday. I have some ideas of myself, including a plenum that will lead to a filter located somewhere to pull in cooler air. That may be down the road though.

Decided to go a slightly different way with the body. Picked up a MS hood in CF from Ronin Speedworks. Really quality piece, I am impressed with it. Also may no longer use the FEED wing, thinking about staying wingless with just a Shine lip spoiler. But stay tuned for updates on engine stuff, probably this weekend. Shes getting close!

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539143

That looks nice. Looking forward to the engine update :)

Still the best hood ever made for the car. :icon_tup:

Wingless or a small lip spoiler only seems to look good on FDs with 19s and a huge lip in the rear IMO.

David,
Thanks! I'm looking forward as well.

Gordon,
Appreciate the input. I wasn't planning on running filters as that, although they do look very nice for his application. I have my own idea for a plenum type intake to pull some cool air from outside of the engine bay. I have some things drawn up but need the car for exact measurements. That will probably be one of my projects over this winter

Djseven,
Thanks. I'm a big fan of this hood as well. I had the feed also but decided to go this way, may eventually try and duct the radiator outlet up towards the vent, but well see. It looks pretty sweet anyway :) And well see on the spoiler, good thing about the lip one is if I don't like it, it's an easy removal :) I hope to have some dyno numbers soon as I know that's been a big point of controversy, and you have been one eagerly wanting to see.

With the engine location being as far back/down as it is, the oil filter location was basically in the trans tunnel. So some custom pieces had to be fabbed up for the feed from the block, oil filter relocation, as well as T to feed the dry sump setup.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539213
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539214
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539215

As with everything there are always some things that dont go well that are out of your control. Finally got the driveshaft in, so the exhaust could be mounted for the final time and rear section finished up. But nope, driveshaft place put the wrong flange on.. so have to wait a few more days for a new one. Oh well, but every little thing is a kick in the nuts.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539216

More to follow :)

good choice on filter! lol

Looking good Lenny. You are really close so that is good to see. May I ask about the driveshaft and the need for a custom one versus the OEM unit? I am assuming weight and rotation or something like that?

may i ask... what is the benefit of the dual master manual brake booster. Googled it and couldnt find an answer to it

I like the progress....I go away for a couple of days and all kinds of progress is made..NICE!!!! When do you think you will have her on the road? I bet your looking forward to it. Btw still waiting on pics of the dry sump ahhahahahahahaah

His motor is moved back, the stock driveshaft is too long.

Nice progress Len!!

It's funny that you and I both had driveshaft problems. I personally took a mock up shaft to my local drivetrain shop and told them to build me a new shaft exactly this length. What I got back was something 5" longer???? I was like WTF!!!! Guy tells me that I needed to leave room for suspension travel. I should have known as they work mainly on trucks. I was like " I have and independant rear suspension and my diff doesn't move". He was like ???????? So I go home and bring a pic of the fd's bare suspension components to show him how my ppf works. His eyes got really big when he saw how the fd was setup.

o.o

Not sure if its a jab or not, but I think the Wix line of race filters are pretty good. Here is some info from them, and they are sold by summit,jegs, etc and are used on some serious race machines:

The "not intended for street vehicles" comes from the fact they sacrifice a tiny bit of filtration media for increased flow. According to a customer rep from Wix as long as fluid is changed regularly (which should be a given especially on a rotary) it isnt an issue for a street car, but they need that annotation just for the fact alot of normal people let oil/filter changes go.

Thanks again David. As RenisisFD stated above, its just because I cannot use the OEM driveshaft. Not only is the engine moved, but Im using a T5 trans and an 8.8 differential.

When I removed the ABS, I also removed the vacuum assisted power brake booster. Without this on the stock pedal, you would have to exert a tremedous amount of force to use the brakes. To remedy this you need to go with a different pedal setup with a lever ratio suited for manual brake operation. The point of the dual masters is to be able to better finely tune the F-R brake bias. You can leverage the ratio between the 2 masters with a balance bar setup and be able to adjust braking performance to your liking. With all this being said, I am by no means an expert at race car braking systems. Im sure I know just enough to be dangerous and possibly spread a bit of misinformation. This is my first crack at it, and Im doing it with research Ive done as well as help from Logan and his experience setting up manual brakes in his personal 4 rotor FD.

Should have some completed pictures to show very soon. While simple in theory the process of getting everything to fit perfectly has taken a bit of time. Lots of small bits and pieces, and its just now nearing completion. A part of this system is also what will be holding up me getting it back for at least a couple weeks. We had thought the drysump tank was an off the shelf item and could just be ordered when needed, but as it turns out its a made to order tank. So, they said tank would be ~4 weeks or so out ( this was a bit over a week ago), so That will most likely be the part we are waiting on before its all complete. In the meantime Logan has a temporary tank we can use for startup and stuff like that, but for break-in and final tune we'll need my tank.

I wish you the best and I know what to expect from it. The controversy was more about the attitudes/presumptions held by your peers than the actual swap. 300RWHP is always fun in a 2700lb car no matter how you get there. :icon_tup:

Exactly. I just want a fun car that sounds amazing. As they say , theres more than one way to skin a cat. I just decided to take the extremely long, complicated and expensive way :rofl: . But with cars, as anything in life I believe in do what makes you happy.. even if thats not the most sensible thing.

i personally skinned the cat by putting an EFR turbo on my 2-rotor, but i'd LOVE to have an NA 20b. i've added it up a few times, and i end up going for a drive in the FD to hear that borg warner whistle sound, which soothes my desires for a while.

i'm ready for some in-car video of that sweet sweet 20b singing at 8k :)

are you going to be tracking this thing?

Absolutely :nod:

Some more updates. Things are really staring to chug along, which to be honest feels like a nice change from such a long time of problems and delays. So first off, driveshaft issue was fixed sooner than expected. So that's in, and with that the drive-line is complete! Shifter (pro 5.0) mounted to trans, fits like a glove and in perfect position.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539293
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539294
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539295


Also fuel pump mounting and fuel cell setup is about 99% complete. The heatshielding around the cell was necessary because the exhaust is going to wrap around and exit drivers side of car. But it came out great as well.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539296
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539297
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539298

Drysump plumbing is getting completed. Here you can see the 2 scavenge lines. If you look close in the second picture ( I know a bit hard to see) you will notice the line is coming though the leg of the rotor housing. Logan drilled and welded a fitting there to get to the oil pan area from that side. Pretty slick. The one coming from the bottom looks a bit lower than it probably actually is, but there will be a solid skid plate built to protect from any "incidents"

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539299
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539300

So since then trans/diff fluids have been filled. Most of drysump mounting is complete. Battery has been placed and starter wire ran. Exhaust installed. More pics tomorrow :)

I like the 20b all motor setup. Great to see a non turbo setup for a change. will sound great. Good job.

what's with the ball things? floats for fuel level? how does that work?
very interesting.

Probably rollover protection against fuel spillage

Yep, in the case of a rollover the balls will plug up the inlets to the fuel cell to prevent spillage.

Some pictures of exhaust setup. Youll notice where it runs under the rear subframe transitions to oval for ground clearance.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539344

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539345

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=539346

very interesting! cool. keep up the sweet updates :)

Definitely not your 'normal' FD undercarriage, that's for sure :)

Logan does some crazy work. The guy is an artist. Explain to me the concept of the super long header tubes. One seems to be shorter than the others?

Haha, that it doesn't. Haven't seen you post nearly as often lately Rich, but your black fd is looking killer :)

^ David, those are equal length runners. Since all the piping collects at a single point under the chassis, it's impossible to have straight piping on a virtically mounted engine if your trying to maintain equal length runners. The front rotor is usually the straightest as it's physically the furthest from the collector. The center and rear need to bend to meet the collector at the point as the front. How you shape them doesn't really matter.

Is it normal on an N/A engine to run them that far under the car?

The header design / primary lengths is probably the most important aspect of making power in n/a form. The primary lengths are "tuned" in accordance with the intake track length to create a resonance. With the correct length of exhaust primaries before the collector you get a scavenging effect, basically one exhaust pulse creating a low pressure area behind it, essentially "sucking" out the following pulse. On the intake tract you try and make that work in reverse, as the air is entering the port at a high velocity, and the rotor closes off the port it bounces back and reverberates in the intake runner. At a certain rpm this reverberation will hit a resonance frequency with the port opening and provide a sort of natural supercharging effect. This is the reason for systems such as vdi in the s5 n/a cars and rx8, as well as the variable telescoping intake in the 787b. To try and match that resonance throughout the rev range. As far as the one primary on mine that looks shorter from underneath, that particular one just has more length up top (I'm assuming the front rotor) so the rest had to have their bends down below to match.

Here is a decent article on tuned intake and exhausts :

http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...e_exhaust.html


They are sort of underneath just because thats where theyd fit. If my engine was in the "normal" location you could probably loop more primary length up top (such as Gordons car). With mine located so low and far back, that just wasnt an option.

On a side note this is basically why my car is at DefinedAutoworks in the first place. I enjoy working on my own vehicles.. and could I physically do a good majority of the work completed? Sure. Have I had years of R&D and trial and error working on N/A engines, fine tuning exhaust and intake lengths to find the perfect sweet spot and then tuning them to run properly? Nope :)

anything to update?

No :( .. Dont really know what else to say at this point. Pretty much just waiting for word from Defined, was hoping I would have it home by now to be honest.

Yeah tell me about it. It's tough to get in touch with a business that has a full VM box and wont respond to emails. I've been waiting for (2) 20b mounts for my FD going on week 7 now. I was told it would only take a 1.5 weeks.

Nice car BTW.

Let me know how loud it is when you start her up with two mufflers.....if it's quite let me know the type of muffler you used. I originally had two mufflers and added a third cause it was too loud. I understand that there are a lot of other factors go into how loud a car is but the mufflers are probably the single most effective component of reducing noise.... Keep the updates coming and hang in there....all this wait will be well worth it.

I guess the only thing I can say is that they are good people and you'll get your stuff. When it comes to timeframes though, yea.. Believe me I can relate to the frustration.


As far as noise, I wasnt hugely concerned being it isnt exactly a DD or a car I plan on cruising with. Im sure itll be fairly loud. It should be somewhere between comfortable and ears bleed. I know they are borla race mufflers, cant remember exactly the name (they may be xr1s), Ill have to look back through receipts and double check. I do have a decibel meter I could measure sound levels with if it would help you out at all?

No need to go thru all that trouble....just curious.

thanks :icon_tup:

^ If you are running a 3 inch pipe, the RX7Store mid pipe muffler is a great option to reduce noise. I had a constant drone in my car and needed a solution as I had a ringing in my left ear when I'd drive the car over 30 minutes or so. The RX7Store mid pipe/muffler worked great for me. Have been told I have one of the quietest 3 rotors around.

I am taking this off the car though as we have increased the piping to 3.5 inches. I ordered a high flow cat that we are going to use in its place. Didn't get this for sound dampening but to reduce the rotary smell of the exhaust a bit. Will be interesting to see how it compares to the previous setup as my guess is it will be louder.

As for the Borlas (XR1s), those work well but my setup was better and less costly. Had a friend that had one of those on his car in the mid pipe.

Have been finishing up all the little odds and ends and getting everything buttoned up. Here are a few pictures Logan had sent me just today. Custom bracket and tensioner for alt complete, drysump pump and oil tank plumbing has been completed. Had some hangups with the slide throttle but thats all good. Just a few more small bits, but startup should be tomorrow :)

Mounting location that has been decided for the oil tank. Cant say Im the biggest fan aesthetically, but its basically where it needed to go. Our original plan was where the ABS unit used to be, but concerns about hoses routing over the header and general engine bay heat in that area, basically with it here it will be in a cooler location with shorter lines. It is what it is, and it works.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=543971

Rest of engine..
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=543972
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=543973
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=543974

Lenny, so happy to see the car ready for fire up. Your journey has been a long one and you have been very patient. Let's hear that puppy start!

They couldn't even clean up the fan relays? For something to take this long it should be looking way more professional/factory.

^ Probably because that takes time and time is money. A shop is just not going to fix or reroute all sorts of things an a customers car unless they pay for it. Perhaps Lenny can do that work himself and chooses to let defined do the fabrication because he cant or does not have space to do that kind of work.


Also, water pump/alternator belt has almost no material on the main pulley that is no good and will probably slip.

I can definitely understand where you're coming from, especially on the timeframe. Some of which I do find them in fault, and some of which was from a number of other reasons. But as for the final "fit and finish", I basically told them to get all the fab work done and get it tuned , and don't worry too much about making it pretty. I will be taking care of that myself. Fingers crossed will be getting it back soon and then over this winter everything will be tidy'd up and it will look as should. As RenesisFD mentioned about, time and money.. as well as a will from me to do that myself. If you take a look at my bay vs Gmonsen's car which Defined also put together, you will see there is a vast difference in how they look coming out of the shop. Gordon asked/payed for that, as I did not. That being said these pictures are still "in progress", as Im sure they are not going to give my car back with shit dangling by wires.


Good eye on the belt, I will keep a close eye on it.

What fan relays? Can't take my eyes off of the important parts. Secksy.

This is a rather bold statement. Aside from the factory relays being in the factory location what about this whole setup is non professional? Nothing is polished aluminum, but it is virtually a slide throttle, itb, custom drysump race engine in a street car with nascar cooling. This is all business and maybe we are the only ones apparently but every detail was carefully plotted out and it looks the part. I don't even see where Lenny has any areas (excluding some relays) to make it better? Didn't expect this hate from you my friend.

Sorry, you are right, the work itself is very professional and the fab work is second to none.

I've been spending too much time on speedhunters where most features are really above and beyond (i.e. braided lines, AN fittings, no zip ties, tucked wiring, etc). I do realize not all of that is necessary. My comment was more based on how long this build seems to have taken vs that level of finish.

Instead of "professional", I really meant "OEM" fit and finish. But that is really none of my business and as the OP stated, there are many reasons for that , and the fault (or whatever one wants to call it) is not the shop itself.

A mod can delete my comment if you'd like. It wasn't really meant to be a stab at defined.