I have been debating the DCT swap for a while and certain things happened with the vendors i was trying to make the deals with. I won't go into details but the whole thing did not inspire too much confidence. Sure, in a perfect world where everything works perfectly, the DCT is the option to go with. However, in a more realistic world, and the situation that i am in; i have decided that the DCT will only be a major headache.

The laundry list of the stuff and their approximate costs in USD

~3300 DCT from an F8X. (i found one in Cyprus)
~3500 all the related mechanical components.
~2000 for the electronics package
~700 for the driveshaft...

It comes to around $9500, (let say $10K) I figured if the costs had stayed there i could do it in probably a couple of years without being too much of a financial burden.
However, there are things that i did not account for.
Drive by wire.
I wanted to stick to the OEM throttle body for the sake of the drivability, so that forces me to go with a BMW actuator which runs for around a grand.

and then i have to make a new engine harness to accommodate for everything, which has previously cost me around 3k and that i means that i will have to relocate the coils.
I am already around 14k USD and i have not even started yet.
Realistically speaking. it will probably cost north of 15k USD.

so overall the following reasons have changed my mind.
The high cost of the DCT swap
Extra weight
Difficulty with the vendors
My inexperience with this system
The possibility that the downpipe will have to be modified. and if that's the case, it is going back to California to be Inconel shielded (Half way around the globe, once again)
and probably some decent down time

All the above reasons have made me change my mind. Sure, i can gain a second or so per lap when everything is dialed in but is it really worth it?

The Grannas Magnum F seemed to be the better option given the circumstances.
I had reached out to Grannas and see whether it was possible to change the input shaft for the Mazda spline setup. I was told it wasn't possible and that i should just get new discs from Os Giken. It may a custom order item, i don't know if they exist off the shelf.
The Os Giken R2CD is a clutch i absolutely love and i would like to keep it when possible.

I had then reached out to Paul from Liberty with similar requests. Liberty can provide me with either a TKX being the smaller package, or a Magnum with the Mazda input shaft spline pattern.
Paul had mentioned, since you are overall happy with the current transmission and it holds the power just fine, why don't you keep it and upgrade the stuff you don't like about it?
In reality, there's only 2 things wrong with my transmission.

1)The continuous chewing of the synchros

2)The shifter (and therefore the miss-shift from 2nd to 5th).

Paul had said he was working on a solenoid that would lock out the 5th/Reverse gear but it never came to fruition. It shouldnt be too difficult to do (his words, not mine).
I remembered i had a stillway shifter in my parts stash. I figured i could retrofit something on the Stillway shifter i have, lock the 5th/Reverse as intended but modify it that gives you the ability to downshift in the locked position.
Before i got to that point though i saw this post from @RotaryRKT . I am thinking what the hell is this and why have i never seen it before? i didn't proceed with it because it locks out the Reverse gear and not the 5th gear. It does not solve my problem.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...548a5c001e.png
So i am on web the other day and an IRP shifter showed up along with the Gracing shifter and several others. The IRP only lists the compatibility with the Mx5 even though on the YJ it says that it fits the FD also.

I am browsing different videos, and one of the videos that came up was this..
i did like the function but again it doesn't lock the 5th gear

The next video i watched was the same shifter on an Mx5 in Australia.
The guy liked it so much and he loves how it locks out the reverse gear along with the blank position on top.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...800cc97fb5.png
So that gave me an idea.
Why not reach out to CAE and see if they can retrofit the MX5 mechanism into the FD shifter. Lock out the 5th gear and the Reverse and call it a day. If that's not possible i will be ok with a mechanism only locking the 5th gear.
I was very happy to learn that CAE is willing to do that for a fee. This is potentially the answer to my problem. Yes the cost is high for a shifter but it is a significant chunk less than other options and i think it does not deviate much from my current setup that i absolutely love.
So i have placed the order today. I will update once i get everything.
I am sure that other people have a similar problem with the miss-shifting and they are looking for a similar solution. Hence this post.

and to match that green stripe on my recaro seats, i opted for the black anodized and anodized green shift knob.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...c7ce04808e.jpg

More updates to follow.

i have run a Magnum F for 2 years along w a Sikky shifter and love it. perfect ratios, shifts like a dream. combine w a Mcleod RST clutch and you have power you can feather and zero slip at any rational power level.

i originally started in 2012 w a T56 which worked well but had a too long 6th gear.

i used an automatic rear iron, automatic bellhousing and starter and fabbed an adapter plate. Tilton short master 7/8th and Tilton 6001 hydraulic release bearing.

love it.

Interesting chain of events haha.

I think you are fairly accurate with your DCT cost estimates. But anything over $10k is really due to ancillary items for the specific car and the owners situation. DBW, wiring, etc. although a wiring kit is available for the CANTCU controller and simplifies a lot, a few things you still need to connect into on the car side though.

Why not go with an Ikea sequential shifter for your FD box?

The magnum F is definitely the better option but i am still looking to spend close to 10k after taking into account the shipping costs and import tax etc.
I will probably revisit the idea of the Magnum F at some point in the future if the shifter/trans cooler combo won't suffice.
The one thing that actually concerns me is the mounting of an aftermarket transmission. i had managed to strip the threads of the transmission mount previously with the Banzai transmission brace. While there are people with some success mounting the transmission solely there i don't think it is a safe mounting solution.
Nonetheless, the easy way out and get everything done within a day or two, is the cooler/CAE shifter situation +transmission rebuild. fingers crossed and lets hope for the best at this point

yeah i did account for the wiring harness from Domiworks, but i still have to do my engine harness to accommodate. it is a concentric twisted tefzel harness.. in order to hook up the right stuff for the DBW i need to redo it.

I had the Ikeya Formula shifter in the past. it was the biggest garbage i had ever come across. Did you ever get to the point where you are like WHY THE F did i get that? Thats exactly how i felt when i got the Ikeya formula. I had used the Ikeya formula sequential shifter on an Evo 3 Rally car and it was a superb shifter. the one for the FD was total trash. i will gladly buy it back from the person i sold it to so i can smash it into a thousand pieces :lol:.

"i don't think it is a safe mounting solution."

100% correct. the last thing you would want is for the tail of the trans to get even slightly loose.

searched the thread and couldn’t readily find it; what ecu are you using?

Another manual transmission option is the Nissan CD009 6-spd conversion kit from Fisch Engineering. The flywheel is setup for the Nissan 370Z pattern. So your existing OSG clutch won’t swap over directly, but pretty sure OSG has the same for that fitment available.

conversion kit:
https://fischracingtech.com/products...adapter-system

FD billet aluminum trans mount:
https://fischracingtech.com/products...on-crossmember

edit: here is the FD factory diff support:
https://fischracingtech.com/products...erential-brace


I’d recommend the 370Z version; triple synchro 1st-3rd, double 4th, they will pretty much take whatever a 13B can give:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...717d2d077.jpeg
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Those are M8 bolts with 1.25 thread pitch iirc. Is that strong enough to take the load that is going to be coming through the trans?

i am running a haltech elite 2500.
i didnt check the 370z transmission swap in detail but i am under the impression that the tunnel has to be widened. I would like to avoid that option.
a close ratio 6-speed with a proper overdrive is very desirable i am not going to deny it but the 6th speed ratio vs the us 5th is pretty close. I will have to redo my final gear to a 4.10 or a 4.44

i had already stripped the threads with the brace there and it is only a supplemental mount. I dont think it can actually hold the whole weight . Sure the weight will be distributed along the engine mounts also but i think the whole thing will be compromised at some point

Regarding the trans mounts, I understand yours are stripped, but that could be due to the weird locking bolts used for them and corrosion/debris over the years. There are several cars I know of running 700+ whp with trans mounted there. I don't think threads stripping is a sign of weakness in the mount. Now I have heard of a twin turbo V8 causing the mounts themselves to start deforming in that area, but that's due to extreme torque, and the ronin v8 swap kit comes with a mount and steel plates that go through a different spot on the floor for this.

Ronin references "sandwich plates" for the trans mount, but doesn't picture them. Any more information on what they are doing?

DBW is needed for traction control, throttle limit maps, throttle curve mapping, auto blip with strain gauge, can remove the ICV, etc. See what it would take to add it, it's way more valuable than just needing it for a transmission. DCT with CANTCU will deliver everything else through CAN, you just might need to tap in to a brake wire if that isn't already ECU connected, everything else should be delivered by CAN.

Find your +5v and sensor ground, and make an auxiliary DBW harness, as long as your have the pins free.

just a few thoughts re trans options...

as our cars age and trend toward (higher) single turbo power, our 30 year old transmissions, engineered for 217 rwhp, become deserving candidates for the trash barrel.

various options currently exist and some will work very well.

i have been on board the Tremec train since 2012.

i started with a 50,000 mile T56 from a Camaro. it was "thought" to have a problem w high rpm shifts. i found no problems shifting at 9000 and also no problems w the trans overall. when Tremec introduced a modern (2021 engineering) version w the same exterior but with the latest internals i made the swap. probably not news as i have posted on it before.

there was a comment in this thread re trans/swap and tunnel fit. every time i am under my car i marvel as to how perfect it is. almost like Tremec made it for the FD. for instance the reverse lockout solenoid fits into a recess in the tunnel.

as to a proper rear trans mount... relatively simple. my mount uses a flange against the tunnel and i have a small stainless steel sandwich plate that sits on the carpet. the tail shaft isn't going anywhere.

i use a Sikky GTO shift mechanism that places the shifter perfectly in the center of the rectangular opening. shifting is one of my fav things on the whole car.

then there's the ratios... i thought the FD first was REALLY bad... 3.483. not usable for anything but pulling up stumps. i note that the Nissan option is even worse at 3.794??

my first is 2.66 and is a pleasure to use. all the Magnum F ratios are perfect.

the clutch option is a dream. my Mcleod RST is organic, sprung and holds 800 ft pounds. it is easy on the leg and happy in stop and go traffic w a 7/8 master cylinder.

there are and will be lots of trans options going forward. many will work fine but please don't overlook the Magnum F in your search.

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Probably something similar to backing plates that you use in a race car when you attach a race seat mounting brackets (or harness sub-belts) to the floor instead of OE seat mounting provisions. Also conceptually similar to plates welded to the floor under roll bar / cage mounts to strengthen the floor and spread the load out to support higher loads associated with rolling over onto your roof (god forbid...).

If it were me creating a rear mount for a transmission, I'd weld in some 1/8" or 3/8" thick 6" x 6" steel plates to the inside of floor or trans tunnel along with a nut. Then bolt it up from underneath. Nut / fasteners would probably be at least 1/2".

It is a shame that the CD009 6th gear is 0.794. It is basically the same as the 5th gear ratio of the FD so it won't really function as an overdrive gear unless you change the final drive ratio to something in the mid 3.xx.

When I had looked at the CD009, I wanted a 6th gear that was essentially what the original 93-95 5th was. In fact I would be fine with my current RZ short 5th, with 4:10 rear, with that 6th being like the original. MAYBE the equivalent of the same with a 4.3 rear instead.

I calculated I'd need a 3.7 rear for that to be the case w/ the CD009, but it's not exact the spreads are different. The Tremec GR700 wide ratio that Grannas seemed more realistic, because I could find a common FD rear gear to work with it.

the 8” Mazda 3.727 gear ratio is out there, I have a set.

I had considered having it and a 3.5 ratio custom made (supposedly Mazda made it for few years, but unobtanium), just unsure if people are willing to pay the expected higher cost.
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Here's the comparo I put together with ratios and speeds in gears with different rear ends. Weight and ratios are important, as is shifter feel. If I'm honest, every T56 derivative I've ever driven felt like a truck, but I haven't driven and of the new ones. Or a CD009 for that matter, but I gather that's a Getrag, and I've driven a Supra Getrag that felt pretty good.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...41d6167270.png

I ended up using helicoils to mount it back again as it was clunking like crazy but i did not investigate further. It could be what you are describing but it was tight and then it wasn't :lol: .I didn't do any testing to verify that this is a point that it is not as strong.


I have used the DBW pins on the ecu for other stuff, I will need to shuffle them around to make it work. At this point it is probably easier to make a new harness and account for stuff that i wish i did before.
When i was reading about the CANTCU i am pretty sure it said that the DBW is mandatory as it need signal inputs etc. there might be a way around it, but i got cold feet for all the mentioned reasons so, i have abandoned that idea

If we ever cross paths, perhaps at deals gap, i would love to see this setup.
next time you are under the car, could you take some pictures ? or are there any pictures available anywhere?


if that area is indeed weak, there is no way around it. you will need to reinforce it.
However, i would personally not go to that extend on a street car.

I do know someone running a DCT with CANTCU without blips, so it should be possible to run without DBW. It will still send cut commands for spark/injector through CAN for smooth upshifts. All the other stuff it needs like MAP, TPS, RPM etc will be fed through CAN or through the transmission sensors. You will need to add a brake signal unless you're already logging that, but that can be run straight to the GCU without re-wiring anything. You won't need to touch your harness.

So, that takes a $15k project to a $10k project, and you can do DBW later on if you choose.

I think HGT just added support for a "throttle blip" actuator, specifically aimed at people who want to keep an analog throttle body. But, HGT is very much experimental and quite a few people have had issues with it, so definitely pay attention to your options here. CANTCU seems to be much more plug and play with happier users, HGT offers higher clutch holding power by over-driving the clutch pressures. Lots to consider.

T56 is overall much simpler, but don't forget you'll need an appropriate clutch/flywheel in addition to the trans, bringing the cost much closer to the DCT than you might think.

given any number of mods in here, sometimes I’m not sure if you’re keeping up with your own build thread :suspect: reinforcing those trans mounting points is not in any way an overly intrusive or major fab project, but it’s entirely your own discretion. No criticism is intended.

With your Haltech the configuration for the CANTCU is addressed through a canbus. From what I understand the Haltech canbus setup isn’t as easy as some, but has been done. I know you mentioned not changing the ecu again and I don’t blame you. Since it was mentioned, on the MAXX ecu, once it’s wired in the setup is plug & play for automatic blips and cuts; just a few software data entry points assuming a DBW TB is indtalled and on the canbus.

https://www.maxxecu.com/webhelp/can-...cu_cantcu.html


also, being a 7-spd you can use a 5.1, 5.3, or 5.8 R&P in the Mazda diff and only use 1st gear for crawl/trailer load use. Then always using 2nd gear to launch instead, which is no problem on the DCT. Which with the wider ratio gearing DTC still makes for a reasonable rpm OD highway speed.

Here it is based on BMW M4 DCT, 24.5” OD tire, and 5.30 R&P

***************************************
Gear MPH/1000 MPH @7500 MPH @8000
***************************************
1 2.86 21 23
2 5.31 40 42
3 8.09 61 65
4 10.77 81 86
5 13.76 103 110
6 16.30 122 130
7 20.50 154 164 ——> 3900 rpm @ 80 mph cruising


I’m considering doing the same thing with a CD009 and 5.125 R&P with 25.5” OD tire since mine won’t be a street use car (RX8 on Hoosier 315 or 335). It would allow me to launch in 2nd and then stay in 3rd for most autocross type events (30 - 78 mph), yet still reach 150 mph on a super long track straight.
.

4.10 is a much better ratio for the long ratio DCT. 7th is intended to be a cruising gear. If you pay the premium for the long ratios, use them.

Running a 5.3, you might was well just run the much cheaper DCT 1:1 7th gear with a 3.9 and save a few thousand on the cost of the trans.

There is another trans option nobody has brought up yet, that I'm planning for my car, but that is blasphemy so I'll leave it all up to your imaginations.

i am not opposed to criticism. If things can be done better i want to hear them. As long as there's respect, I am glad to hear how things could have been done better.

you may be right about not keeping track of the mods. However, i do consider this build to be somewhat mild. it can go back to a semi-original form any time. i have most of the stuff and I have all the harnesses etc.
With the exception of the rear quarter panels nothing else has been permanently modified. Even the quarter panels can be brought back to the original form if ever needed.
This is one thing that i like about the approach of this build that i didn't like with other builds i was involved in the past. you can take the car for a road trip and still be comfortable. I have overbuild cars in the past that i ended up hating driving in the end.
The motor is stock and about 11-12 years old. With the exception the apex seals and the ported exhaust, the motor is stock. No studs, no dowels. Idles perfectly at ~850 rpm, clutch drives like a stock car.


As for changing the ECU. I could change the ecu. It feels however that the Cost will be greater than the Reward.
If i am going to change the ECU, i will definitely need to make a new harness to accommodate everything in the harness.
Not sure who would tune the MaxxECU; i dont know if J. Renna tunes these ECUs and i am not keen on letting anyone else tune the car.
Whoever may be though, he won't be a local tuner in Cyprus. So, i will have to fly someone over. I am not a fan of remote tuning sessions.

It took less than 2 years to do the new build with the PDM, the Haltech, new Turbo system and all related components and the tune. Part of this delay is that i am not there and the compatibility of the Haltech Elite with the AIM pdm hurt my completion date quite a bit.
I don't see this swap taking any less time than that. you have take into account that i am near the car a few weeks of the year.
This swap may be more feasible when and if i bring the car over, after it becomes 25.


I am not sure i would go as short gear as the 5.1 or 5.3 for the final gear.
OEM FD 1st gear 3.483 on a 4.10 final gear gives you a launch ratio of 14.28
DCT 2nd gear 2.593 on a 5.3 final gear gives you a launch ratio of 13.74. Which is pretty comparable
Yes, It will make you launch ratio in 2nd gear similar to the FD stock numbers but you have pretty much wasted the first gear.
I would instead go the other way. Use a much taller final gear to utilize the first gear.


Agreed!!
I wonder what that blasphemous swap may be ... :lol:​​​​​​​

To reinforce the above post:
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...l=1#post552947

edit - taking the discussion to the appropriate thread linked below

best wishes with your build.

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati.../#post12591652
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the 3.727 P033-27-110 or P038-27-110 came in the 929/MPV, 88-1991 Manual Trans, which would make them really rare

i haven't found an instance of the 3.6 or 3.58 that came to the US, so no part numbers