RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum - Don't get long blocks from Rotary Resurrection

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection

First, before I pick apart this freakin NOVEL that the original poster wrote, let's clarify what the BUYER ACTUALLY PAID FOR. Here is the thread in question where the transaction was born. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...Turbo+Swap+Kit

As already posted by someone above (someone with ACTUAL COMMON SENSE) it clearly states in the thread: "External parts such as injectors, transmission, turbo etc. are not covered under warranty. " and "IT would not be a bad idea to go over a few key areas of the engine later on. These include fuel injectors (cleaning and new rubber), water pump, thermostat, etc. These parts will be in good, useable condition when they leave here, however they are original with 100+k miles on them."

I'm not sure how much clearer it could have been made. So, above all else, the seller bought a setup with ORIGINAL, OLD, USED ACCESSORIES, and that is exactly what he RECEIVED. I delivered exactly what was advertised.

One other point needs to be made. THIS ENGINE WAS BUILT FOR ANOTHER CUSTOMER AND LATER SOLD TO THIS BUYER INSTEAD. Had this guy been the buyer from day one, he could have told me what he wanted, supplied some new parts, and gotten exactly what he asked for. The customer that contracted the engine to be built specified that he did not want any replacement parts or special consideration be given, he just wanted the setup in it's most basic form.

The engine was built and assembled to that buyer's requirements and then test run. Only after this was ownership transferred to the new buyer.

Now, let's do some basic math here based upon market value of parts in question. The total cost of the package was $2600. This included a rebuilt turbo II shortblock. INdustry standard pricing for a basic build of a turbo shortblock is in excess of $2000 (let's sit aside the fact that I work cheaper than the rest). Also, no core or core charge was required, this was an outright sale. Core charges range from $500-1000 with most builders. So, looking at the big picture, the shortblock itself was pretty much worth the entire cost of the swap, if you want to look at it that way. IF you choose not to look at it that way, read on.

BUT WAIT, there's more. The swap included an entire turbo II drivetrain, complete from flywheel to axles. Including the much sought after t2 rear differential, which in itself can sell for as much as $300. I usually get $400-600 out of JUST the drivetrain parts. So again, the $2600 cost of the swap is more than offset by the value of the shortblock and the drivetrain.

BUT WAIT, there's more. Also included with this swap was all the electronic sensors and accessories needed to make the turbo engine run. Including boost sensor, knock box, ecu, throttle cable, airflow meter. These parts in themselves should probably be worth $100-150 on the open market any day of the week.

So now we're up to $3100+ worth of parts for $2600. Not a bad deal, eh? BUT WAIT, there's more!!!!

IN addition, new intake and oil gaskets were supplied at a cost exceeding $100. The turbo/manifold and turbo/dp gasket were not new, but were inspected used parts in useable condition with no blown out spots or breaks. These metal turbo gaskets are over $100 for just the 2 of them, and doing the math shows why I could clearly not have supplied new ones for the quoted cost of the swap. I am already GIVING this shit away as it is!

All the longblock accessories were included as well. Turbo, manifold, waterpump, alternator, intake, wiring, injectors, etc. In unknown condition, these parts would be worth 2 or 300 dollars on the open market easily. Hell, the injectors themselves are worth 100 bucks for a set of 4, and even a rough condition t2 harness is worth 100 bucks. Even if you play devil's advocate and call ALL of these parts junk, a total loss (clearly not the case since the engine was test run for 25+ hours) then you're still no worse off. THESE PARTS WERE BASICALLY INCLUDED FREE. How or why should I be held responsible, or let this guy act like I did him wrong, WHEN HE IS BITCHING ABOUT THE QUALITY AND CLEANLINESS OF FREE PARTS?!?! Did I build these accessories? If not, how the hell can you expect me to guarantee them? HELLO, COMMON SENSE?

No, these external parts were not cleaned. Furthermore they normally do not GET cleaned by me unless I am specifically paid more to do so. WHy would I? I charge a certain amount for the SHORTBLOCk rebuild. IT has absolutely nothing to do with the external stuff. IN this case the external parts were clearly specified as old, used stuff in that condition. Nowhere did I state that the parts would be cleaned externally. Nor did I state that any particular part would be guaranteed or even inspected closely. When I take all this stuff off a core, I lay it out on the floor. When I have built the shortblock, I start getting those accessories one by one and clean the gasket mating surfaces to bare metal. I spray off electrical connections (injectors etc.) with brake cleaner, and I bolt it all back together. Whatever you started off with is what you end up with. If I see no obvious defect then it goes back on. If I see an obvious defect that is normal or minor, and I know will not affect the running of the engine, it goes back on. If I see an obvious defect that I judge will be an issue, I find a used replacement and charge extra. The exception is when I am asked (and paid extra) to clean the parts and do a more thorough inspection of each component, or when the customer sends their own replacement parts for installation.

By his logic, any of the used accessories with any flaw whatsoever should have been replaced. This would have cost several hundred/thousand extra dollars. I am unsure how the buyer could realistically expect this given the math posted above.

To address some of the posters concerns specifically:

I do not have a parts washer of any kind. I have a small tank for soaking in solvent, and other cleaning is done by hand or pressure wash. Between shelves of engine parts, toolboxes and tools, a workbench, powdercoating oven/bay, etc. I have no room in my garage for a big parts cleaner, nor the investment capital to buy one. People tend to think I am rich or something. Do the math people, it is not that hard. I make about 500 bucks off each engine build, and I do 3-5 per month. That's no better money than any of you guys make at your day jobs. Tell me again why I should spend 3 grand on a parts cleaner so I can clean this guy's intake manifolds (which were provided free of charge by the way) for free?

What the fuck are you talking about? Everybody has their own opinion on the oil pan sealing on rotaries. I have tried all the common methods. in FC and FD applications I seem to have the best luck with a paper gasket and a thin layer of sealant on each side, after cleaning both mating surfaces with brake cleaner and wiping off with a clean towel. My personal FC has a gasket on it and does not leak...it was sealed in the same manner. Oilpan bolts are torqued to spec, which isn't a lot mind you. To say I should "know better" implies that there's a known defect in doing it this way, which there is none proven. You should have "known better" than to call me out, however, as you will now get :owned:

Uhm, did you ever think that the PREVIOUS OWNER OF THE ENGINE did? HELLO...do you think I owned this engine since 1987, never letting anyone else touch it, and just now decided to sell it to you? :ugh2:

I cannot always undo every fuckup on an old part. Oh, I guess since that one hole was roughed up, I should have just said to myself "hey, fuck this manifold, I am made of money, let me go buy another one instead, wait another week or 2 for it to arrive, and in all likelihood it will have a stripped hole too". Since there is no stress on the TMIC mounting bolts, I saw no problem with chasing a tap through the stripped aluminum on the UIM, putting a bolt in for cosmetics sake, and calling it a day. Or would you rather I have spent about 30 bucks and 2 hours helicoiling a set of threads that serve no useful purpose? WTF are you thinking?

Yes dumbass, it's called HYLOMAR. You may have heard of it...its a popular assembly agent used by many builders. IT is a NON HARDENING, NON DRYING sealant that holds things in place and seals gaps. IT washes away in the presence of oil or water. I use it on gasket mating flanges very lightly. WHY? The old gaskets on rotaries are BAKED in place, and literally have to be ground off with a rotary wire brush. Sometimes, I find that previous owners (see a theme here) have used a scraper and screwed up the mating surface. IN any case, the soft aluminum is almost always imperfect after the old gasket is removed, so to make up for these imperfections AND OBTAIN A GOOD SEAL I use the hylomar in addition to the stock paper gaskets.

It was clearly stated that all these items are original, old parts and unwarrantied. Why bitch about it if you knew it ahead of time? This is no different than buying a t2 partscar and using it for a swap, or buying a jspec. When you buy a jspec, you buy the block only, and any external stuff is just a bonus if it is good, but it is certainly not guaranteed. Same here, it was clearly stated up front. Learn to read first, instead of bithcing later. Reading comprehension for the win.

Exactly how do you install a water pump wrong? First, above, you bitch about sealant being used on the intake gaskets, where air leaks are prevalent. Now, you bitch because sealant WASNT used on the water gaskets, claiming it is a "massive water leak". Well it's a funny fucking thing, I didn't see a damn drop of water the whole 25 hours it ran. Oh, the surface rust in the passages would probably be attributed to the bits of old stuff in the coolant passages which will not always get dislodged during cleaning. You don't seriously think you can get 20 years of previous cooling system neglect perfectly clean in 2-3 days of cleaning, do you? Also note that I run water in the engine during testing, as I dont see fit to waste 10 bucks in antifreeze on each engine I test run. So, by the time I drain that back out and small puddles sit in various places in the bottom cavities, you may see a bit of surface rust form, just like on your brake rotors when it rains the day before. As soon as you refill the system with a proper mix of coolant this minute amount of rust will be flushed away and become invisible.

Exactly how the hell do you install a gasket 'wrong"? It only goes on one way. The sealant, again, is there for your benefit, and is superior to a gasket alone. There is NO "crap" inside the intake manifold. All manifolds and parts get blown out for about 30 seconds with 165psi compressed air. Sure, the runners are going to have a brownish coating to them, normal carbon residue. Not the flaky kind of thick carbon that builds up on the faces of pistons and rotors, just a thin discoloration that won't wipe off on your finger. Chemical cleaning or sandblasting are the only practical ways to remove this coating which does not impact anything. Note that this buildup begins coating the secondary runners of all rotary intake manifolds within a few hundred miles of startup. Clearly this cannot "destroy the engine" or no rotary would have made it past a few thousand miles when new. Again, we have a case of an overzealous buyer thinking he knows more than he actually does. If he knew so much, he'd know this is completely normal.

Hey genius, those are junk used plugs that I threw in just for test running. No use in ruining a new set of plugs for a test run/breakin. Heat ranges do not matter when idling under no load or driving at light load. I left them in place simply to keep debris from getting into the plugholes during shipment and your initial handling. Had I known it would offend you greatly I would have removed them prior.

What the fuck are you talking about? You have no idea how stupid you sound right now. I have no response to these comments.

Uhm, this makes no sense. If it had no warranty to "convince you", then you'd have no grounds to return it in the first place, because it would have been sold unwarrantied wouldn't it? And as for the existing warranty (for shortblock only) you are welcome to send it back. (paying shipping of course). I will again test run it on my stand to evaluate compression, coolant pressure holding, oiling system/smoke, and if it passes, it'd be shipped right back to you (shipping collect of course) just as it was. I don't re-rebuild engines based on the whim of a bitchy customer. I do stand behind my work if there is a legitimate problem with an engine that I built.

Yes, and you have a right to bitch about this because I personally assembled both of these parts personally. Yep, I built that shit with my bare hands. </sarcasm>

Its a funny thing that I hit them all with a 450lb impact gun for 3-4 seconds until the nut stops turning. I have never had one come loose.

I think this pretty much sums it all up right there. The defense rests, your honor.

Thank you for the support. Ironically, when people start negative threads about me, it is always something that gets turned around pretty quickly and the original poster is usually judged to be a fool and promptly run out of the thread. As a bonus, I usually get style points for my response in many past and potential customers books', and usually get a couple of new jobs out of it. Keep 'em coming guys!

TO answer your question, I'll be taking a few more jobs at the first of May. I'd be happy to help you then, but be sure and check with me promptly as the 3-4 monthly spots fill up within the first week and everything is on a first come basis.

I thought so too, as there've been a couple of joke threads in the last month or 2. And a couple of bullshit ones like this, too. Maybe it's time for me to take a hiatus from the rotary community for a while until they learn to mature. It is getting hard to deal with.

ALL series 4 turbo manifolds are cracked. Some worse than others, but all are cracked that I see (and I see plenty, hundreds so far). Playing devil's advocate and saying I should have waited a week or 2 to buy another one, IT TOO would have been cracked, so you still would have bitched. What would you have expected? Most welders will not work with cast iron, and there is no replacement on the market. You either use what you have or upgrade to a newer setup.

Sorry, but I cant hold it any longer. You're a dumb motherfucker, you know that? Yeah, I shouldn't have said it, but I did anyway, because I can. I am my own boss, and this is one of the perks, being able to call a spade a spade.

Care to tell me exactly how you install a one-way gasket "wrong"? Seriously, indulge me. I'd like to hear about this. :ugh2:

Yeah, sure thing buddy, I'll get right on that. Don't hold your breath.

You're a paranoid individual with a dim view of life. I feel sorry for you. You also have little idea what you are talking about, and to say that "the apex seals would have blown the minute I started it up" further proves this. Clearly, by my reputation and history your assumptions are invalid and incorrect. I have engines from 5 years ago still running around on this forum.

Oh I have a remedy in mind alright, but not what you describe. Suffice to say, if we ever met in person it might very well involve a 13" foot meeting an ass, and a slap to the back of the head. :squint:

On a serious note though, you can "want in one hand, shit in the other, and see which one fills up faster", because you're not getting jack from me.

Governing warranty terms of interest:

"External parts such as injectors, transmission, turbo etc. are not covered under warranty."

Shortblock warranty terms:

Below is a quick outline of the warranty. Note all restrictions. By purchasing an engine you agree to all conditions set below:

"Absolutely no cash refunds, full or partial"

"All warranty is void if the engine BLOCK is disassembled in part or full before being returned to me in the event of a claim."

"I do NOT warranty any items I install outside the short block whether they were originally yours or I sell them to you. This may include manifolds, turbos, injectors, wiring, water pumps, alternators, etc."

"I do NOT warranty any issues regarding installation of the engine that I perform. For instance, if you have me install an engine into your car and later your original radiator hose busts, or you have an electrical problem, or an oil pan leak, I am not liable."

These terms were written in for just such an occurence. To prevent me from being taken advantage of by someone such as yourself who wants something for nothing.

I am fully capable of building just about any engine setup someone would ask of me. However, I cannot and will not do it for free or cheap. For an engine assembled with the new parts you were expecting would have cost double what you paid.

this has to be the longest post Ive ever seen