Don't get long blocks from Rotary Resurrection
I wouldn't recommend him for long blocks. Definitely won’t go back to rotary resurrection for any work. Not because of the shipping. I can pay for shipping if the work is worth it. For those who don’t want to read a lot, a quick point rundown:
Customer Service: 1 point, A++++++ Shipping: 1, point A+++++ Rebuilt Block: If it works, I give him a point. But I can’t yet, read below. Engine Paint: 1 point, A+. I don’t care about engine paint for a driver car, but was done pretty good and doesn’t peel or scratch easily. Cleanliness of Components: They were clean? (only including the engine block in this category) 0 points Transmission: 1 point, seems to be in good shape. Drive Shaft: 1 point, a little cleaning and she’s ready to go. Rear Differential: 1 point, seems to be in good shape. Half Shafts: 1 point, seems to be in good shape. Fuel Pump: Don’t know, using a higher flowing pump instead. Wiring harness: Eh, ok for a turbo. Nah, in good shape for a turbo, but I will still tear the harness down to check the wiring. Can’t leave anything untouched. Here's why: Most rotary engines are filthy from leaks, need all the rubber replacing because most owners who aren’t gear heads don’t bother with minor details like vacuum lines, water lines, and cleanliness. However, I expected very different from a reputable so called seasoned rotary buff. Um, I recently changed my mind. Let’s start with customer service. One of my biggest pet peeves. I can stand bad customer service for any reason. I could be the biggest asshole, I still want awesome customer service. Rotary resurrection really shines there. Gave me the time to figure out a shipping company and even really really cooperated with the shipping company. If I could find Rotary Resurrection’s written ordeal, I would post it. Really attests to the fact Rotary Resurrection cares, about shipping anyway. I bought one of the t2 conversion kits Rotary Resurrection had up for sale back in December. I thought everything was going to be pretty well done since Rotary Resurrection comes highly recommended from many sources. He seems to have plenty of experience. His customer service really stood out very well. I did expect rust on some of the components, after all this kit is coming from back east where rust is prevalent. I am already expecting some work to make the engine worthy of starting, but not a lot. I stopped being worried about what I was getting until…. Then the conversion kit came. My jaw dropped. The long block engine stuff was very very very very very very filthy, and installed on what might be a freshly rebuilt engine. Who puts extremely dirty stuff on a freshly rebuilt engine? Definitely not a good or educated mechanic. Where rotary engines, all engines for that matter, are concerned, cleanliness is godliness. There is absolutely no excuse for the long block stuff being dirty, at all. Even for someone like rotary resurrection who can clean stuff up very easily. That’s assuming he is using a parts cleaning vat. Cleaning up that kind of stuff isn't even a question, that's automatically a requirement for any good mechanic regardless of the kind of job. Complete failure on that! If everything was clean, I would have dropped the engine in without having noticed some of the extra surprises that await me. Get the engine block in the garage and the crappy long block work keeps on making itself known. First thing I noticed: there's a gasket on the oil pan. What? A gasket, and a crappy one at that? Come on now, rotary resurrection should know better. But, the pan should at least be dry. NOPE!!!!!!! LOOOAAAADDDDED with leaking oil. Not loaded, saturated. Looked at the screws, half of them aren't even tightened down, not even finger tight. By now I'm thinking there will be a bad fuel pressure regulator, bad vacuum lines all around, bad water lines, bad vacuum components, and with my luck bad fuel injectors. At least for now I have to tear the oil pan off, clean off the pan and engine block and properly install the oil pan. Something rotary resurrection should have done right PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now it's time to get the crappy looking intercooler off to see more surprises. Keep in mind, I don't care too much about the intercooler, the fins and faded red lettering can be easily fixed. But, pulling the intercooler off the engine led to my first real shocker. One of the bolts was messed up, but still wrenched into the manifold. What kind of idiot wrenches an easily seen messed up bolt into an intake manifold? Everyone: Rotary Resurrection does, that’s who! Why bother using the bolt if it's messed up? Surprises don't stop there. Now I have all I need to prove the long block build was rushed big time, but wait, the ginshu knives have yet to show up. I grab my vacuum pump, and no surprises. The fuel pressure regulator doesn't hold vacuum. Rotary Resurrection said that was checked. Checked again, doesn't hold vacuum. Various components of the air control valve actually hold vacuum, that's a surprise for how crappy the air control valve looks. Checked the turbo vacuum components, work excellently. As I am doing all this, the filth gets cleaned up in the areas I am working. The filth was so bad, I couldn't tell vacuum lines from the rats nest. Test the egr valve, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle, the egr works. Wow, that’s a huge surprise and relief. Clean up the egr, make a new gasket, she’s ready for reinstall. What? You were expecting the egr to be clean? In reality, I didn’t either. It’s not an area that needs to be cleaned when putting the manifold back on if the area isn’t all that filthy. That’s what I consider to be a nicety and not counted against rotary resurrection. Looked at the vacuum diaphragm by the oil filler neck, blown. Dirty, and doesn’t properly hold vacuum. But, never expected rotary resurrection to get that detailed. Besides, I have a piled\ of these I bought as five fingered discounts at local junk yards. I decided to pull the upper intake manifold. What do I find? Intake manifolds that are sealed with an oem looking gasket and silicon used to help seal the manifolds. Whoa, wait a minute, silicon? To seal manifolds? Oh snap, the fuel injector grommets are torn apart as well. Now I am getting worried about the condition of the engine block itself, and keep in mind the engine already has 25 hours of run time, making me really worried about the apex seals. So far I am seeing very little to desire about rotary resurrection's less than handy work. Now I'm up for a fpr, intake gasket, all grommets and o rings for the fuel injectors, and tons and tons of brake cleaner. At this point, all the water lines look good. Yet another relief, and some hope for rotary resurrection. Get the vacuum rats nest off and start testing the solenoids. One is shot, no surprise or big deal. Yup, more five fingered discounts at the local junk yard. However, most of the vacuum lines are so old, they crack with the slightest touch. Things are getting worse and worse. But, still not so bad that I am thoroughly pissed. Vacuum lines are more of a nuisance than anything else, got new ones anyway. A good installation always uses new rubber, seals, and clean parts. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks, the turbo. The turbo is going to be crap. Pull the heat shield, and look at both ends of the turbo. Luckily, no play, no cracks, looks to be in good shape. Only, very very dirty. Maybe I can keep from having to pull the turbo and lower intake manifold, but doubt it. Now to the injectors. With a quick glance, I saw the secondaries had bad grommets. Now I’m loosing faith. Pulled all the injectors. Damn it, doesn't this guy have a clue about rotary engines? One is missing the end cap, and none have any kind of sealing ability at all either on the fuel rail, engine block, or intake manifold. Essentially massive vacuum leaks. Oh yeah, these are filthy all around too, even interiors where the fuel enters and exits the injectors. They're off to be cleaned and tested. Bet at least one will be bad. But, probably something I would end up taking care of anyway. Time to look at the water pump. At least rotary resurrection can't be dumb enough to mess that up. Wanna bet? Looked at the water exit pipe. Lined with orange rust crap. Not only that, the gaskets are installed wrong, no high tack sealant visible anywhere. Massive water leaks waiting to just happen. Gotta pull the water pump and housing. When I did, oh the mess. The water pump is rusted on the inside and has some hard crap on the outside. The impeller, housing, everything has rust. Not a coloring from using red coolant, but actual rust. Luckily I have a new water pump coming off my na block. Looked into the water ways on the rebuilt engine, loaded with crap. Rotary resurrection took no care to keep the newly rebuilt engine internals clean. Now I have to flush the crap out of a newly rebuilt engine block or risk breaking the water jacket or overheating the block. Should not have to do that. Given the condition of everything else, I am definitely not surprised anymore. Noticing how bad the water pump and water ways are in the engine block, gotta check out the lower intake manifold. To no surprise, loaded with crap as well. Lower intake manifold has to come out and the internal air paths have to be cleaned out. Just staring at the manifold, crap falls off the walls of the pathways into the engine. Anyone wanna tell rotary resurrection why that is bad? A messy irritation is now becoming a massive pissed off rebuild a rebuilt engine session. The lower manifold comes off on Friday, bet the gasket sitting against the engine block is sealed wrong too! That means the turbo has to come off. Oh the wasted expenses mounting. By now I am scared shitless of the apex seals. Take off 3, that's 3, not a typo for 2, trailing spark plugs and 1 lead spark plug. Um, gee, how come there's 3 trailing plugs? Hopefully the engine wasn't run like that either. If you’re going to fool someone, at least have the decency to put the proper numbers of each spark plug. My brother turned the flywheel while I looked at the apex seals. Thank god rotary resurrection had the sense to put apex seals on the rotors. All clean inside, mostly, with mostly clean apex seals. What comes out of the spark plug holes and sits on the apex seals? All the crap that is lining the air paths of the intake manifolds. The front spark plug holes actually have gas and oil coming out of, fairly clean too. There's hope yet. But, the rear rotary only oozes out crap from the intake manifolds. At least one fuel injector works. Will the apex seals blow? Yeah surie bob they will. Just a matter of when after seeing all the crap going on externally. They would have blown sooner if I didn’t decide to clean up the manifolds. A little side note for those who don’t know: crap in the intake manifold will sure as heck blow the engine. Case in point: my brother went through two engines in his stealth within two weeks before listening to my dad and I concerning cleaning the intake manifold. There was so much solid crap being sucked into the engine, the engine would keep blowing unless cleaned. Now everyone can see why the manifolds should be cleaned. Now that I have almost everything off the so called ready to install long block, I can see the actual engine block. Clean, very clean. Why didn't the long block stuff get cleaned? Again, no excuses possible, just a lot of evidence pointing to a rushed engine build. Paint, of which I could care less about and would rather not have, looks well done. Thanks to the original buyer for a good looking combination. If it wasn't for the dirty water paths and dirt on the apex seals, I would say the engine rebuild looks great. But, I can't. Just good. If I am lucky, the crap in the water paths hasn't already messed up the water jacket (highly highly doubt it, but you never know), and the apex seals won't blow during the break in from all the crap sitting on them. I definitely don’t want that crap floating around in my brand new radiator. If I wasn't already pissed off at the rest of the stupid mistakes made by a supposedly seasoned rotary buff, I would be happy with the engine block rebuild. The warranty is the only thing convincing me not convincing me to train that engine right back to rotary resurrection for a proper rebuild. Enough of the engine block. On to the other pieces of the conversion kit. The transmission. Goes into gear in all gears, the input shaft freely turns the output shaft in all gears, and the internal shifter spring is in good shape. Extremely filthy, but in no way did I expect the transmission to be clean. However, the supplied throw out bearing is beyond usable. Yup, the bearing is trash. Also, the slave cylinder is sooooo rusted, I can't trust the slave cylinder. Not too worried about the throw out bearing, my new clutch came with one. Yup, even got a new master and slave cylinder. For the price, couldn't refuse anyway. Besides, I was intending on buying a new slave cylinder anyway. No biggie on any of that. Replaced the rear seal and the sensors, cleaned up the transmission, and is now a good looking component ready for installation. Point #2. But the clutch and flywheel. Well, I already decided the clutch would be replaced and flywheel would be resurfaced regardless of their condition upon arrival. However, the clutch and flywheel aren't bad at all. They're actually in good shape. But, they're easy to get to now, get them taken care of. Third point towards rotary resurrection. By the way, the flywheel wasn’t tightened to 300 foot pounds torque, barely 100. I put that against the engine rebuild. Now to the driveshaft. Not too dirty, but in great shape. A quick cleaning and she's ready to be installed. Point # 4. Ah, the t2 lsd. A big pumpkin worthy of the conversion kit. The input shaft turns both output shafts very easily. When loaded with lucas gear oil, the rear diff turns even easier. No leaking, yuppie. Swapped the lsd tag to the one on my lsd, mine looked better. Just a nit picky thing, but satisfying to me anyways. To make the rear diff even better, she installed in less than an hour with no help, compared to 5 hours of tearing the old one out. Point #5. Given the engine is full of surprises, the half shafts should be ready for the scrap heap. Nope. Quite the opposite. In great shape. The boots are in awesome condition. The shafts even came with hub bolts, how nice. And yup, one was used. I lost one of mine killing one of 3 black widows under the car. The shafts installed in 30 minutes, again no help. Point # 6. The wiring harness. Such a waste of wiring in any condition. A quick look at the wiring and I definitely have to tear down the harness. Was planning on tearing the harness down anyway. Sections of electrical tape are missing. No big deal anyway. Ah, but there is good justice for looking over the harness: one of the secondary fuel injector connectors has been replaced. Well, more like crimped in place. Not a good way to replace a connector. I’m willing to bet rotary resurrection didn’t do that, but he could have. Wouldn’t have mattered anyway. When considering everything that’s wrong, I should NOT have under any circumstances when buying a rebuilt engine assembled as a long block: 1. Clean the long block stuff. 2. Replace the water pump and gaskets. 3. Already flush the engine block coolant path ways. The engine block was just rebuilt. 4. Replace ANY of the intake seals. With proper use of high tack sealant, the gaskets will survive dozens of intake manifold removals. My na block is a testament to that. 5. Clean the intake pathways. If I was buying all that stuff separately, I expect all of that to be filthy and need extreme cleaning. But on a recently assembled long block? Hell no. If you’re taking pride in what you do, you do the job right the first time not, not let the customer redo the job themselves. I should have asked about the vacuum lines, would have been nice to have an engine show up with new vacuum lines. But, I already have new vacuum lines. That’s definitely not counted against rotary resurrection. Would have been nice to have an offer to have the vacuum lines freshly replaced, heck I would have paid. Well, until I saw how dirty everything was. Not all of the vacuum lines were bad either. The really bad lines were around the solenoids. Rotary Resurrection said he didn’t want to touch those in case he broke a solenoid or two. Hey, that’s cool. Looks good for customer service. That is way more than an acceptable reason. I have broken plenty of solenoids in my time. Oh yeah, the fuel lines. I replaced them only because I was that far down. Otherwise, the fuel lines were in great shape, but half the thickness of what I bought. I bought some expensive shit that goes beyond eom standards. Used different clamps. I don’t like or trust screw clamps. They always always always fail on me. Rotary resurrection did pretty good here too. While I am on the fuel subject: pulsation dampener. Although rotary resurrection put what looks like a good one on the engine, I put my 800 mile one on anyway. I could eliminate the pulsation dampener, but after a lengthy talk in person with mazda trix, I decided to go with my new one anyway. Simple logic: After 15 years they start to go out. Replace the pd, get another 15 years, and save on screwing up the injectors. Let’s see, $800 for injectors, or $260 for a pd every 10 years or so. Hmmmm…. That’s the saga. Note to webmaster: why is this site soooo blasted slow? Drained my laptop battery trying to post after I hit the post button. |
Is this suposed to be a rebuilt engine? wow
in other notes, yes the site is super slow. |
I just read the entire thing, and all i have to say is "wow"...
"wow" for 2 reasons...you having the time to type this out and the other wow is obvious. |
At least he's thorough on his explaination. A+ in that regard.
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have any pics of the engine before you tore it down?
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The first question that popped into my mind after reading it was....how much did you pay for the engine and ancillary components?:confused:...and it's losing faith, not "loosing faith"...:p:
:cool: |
Originally Posted by wizzbangca
When considering everything that’s wrong, I should NOT have under any circumstances when buying a rebuilt engine assembled as a long block:
1. Clean the long block stuff. 2. Replace the water pump and gaskets. 3. Already flush the engine block coolant path ways. The engine block was just rebuilt. 4. Replace ANY of the intake seals. With proper use of high tack sealant, the gaskets will survive dozens of intake manifold removals. My na block is a testament to that. 5. Clean the intake pathways. If I was buying all that stuff separately, I expect all of that to be filthy and need extreme cleaning. But on a recently assembled long block? Hell no. If you’re taking pride in what you do, you do the job right the first time not, not let the customer redo the job themselves. No offense intended, but that's what i read between the lines, repeat, what i read between the lines. |
Just to play Devil's advocate, though...just how hard is it to get out the pressure washer and hose down a 12A or 13B, REW "keg" when you first get it out of the car??
:cool: |
Oh its coming. Its only a matter of time.
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Jean Luc Picard is going to be very VERY angry.
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It will be interesting to see how this plays out. This thread is about to hit the proverbial fan.
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If you paid several, 4-5k for a long block that was supposed to be rebuilt, and cleaned, I understand your gripe. Then. all vacume hoses, injectors ect should be in great shape.
On the pther hand, I do not know of one dealer out there that sells USED engines and cleanes them for you. It realrey happens. You have to deal with the mess. Now, was this a budget engine, or a rebulit one? |
Originally Posted by BackyardSog
Oh its coming. Its only a matter of time.
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When Kevin responds, I would like to know if he is taking business at the end of the month, S5, ported rebuild. I heard/seen GREAT things from RR from the wankler on rebuilds and plan on being a future customer.
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Sucks that Dave isn't around anymore and you west coasters gotta ship stuff all the way to the east coast for decent affordable rebuilds. :(
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IBTshithitsthefan. I thought this was another joke thread at first but mabe not.
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Ive got to drop off a motor and pick one up tonight from his house. I will let him know about this thread so he can address the issue. Kevin(rotaryresurrection) is one of the reasons I am still buying/selling fds. He is a big part in keeping the cars affordable for the buyer and makes my life a whole lot easier that is for sure. Im sure there is a mix up here and Kevin will step in and clear things up.
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amazing post OP
this is the first negative review I hear about them, they are always great IMO. hope they work it out with you. |
im still gonna send my block to him to get rebuilt.
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Maybe the poster realizes now that he jumped the gun. Kevin is not the ussual suspect of, "you get what you pay for". Kevin is realiable and gives you more than you pay for. If this guy bought one of those Na/ to Turbo swaps Kevin was selling, then he got a budget swap. To think it should be cleaned up and such is nieve.
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Hmmm.
I have been seeing a lot of RR threads poping up lately. I think you were expecting a little much. Reread his thread and it is clear that the motor is rebuilt but all other accessories are old parts that stil work, maybe not 100% perfectly. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...Turbo+Swap+Kit . This line right here states what you are complaining about and in no way did he claim he was going to clean, or use new items.
From his post: "IT would not be a bad idea to go over a few key areas of the engine later on. These include fuel injectors (cleaning and new rubber), water pump, thermostat, etc. These parts will be in good, useable condition when they leave here, however they are original with 100+k miles on them." At the same time I can understand your problems with some of the issues you discussed, but Kevin usually seems to set things straight, so give him a chance before going all post happy. The biggest worry I would have is the amount of stuff that has gotten into the engine. Good luck, and hope your issues get resolved. Dane |
Before covering some concerns, here's some more after a little thought:
The missing fuel injector end cap: MIGHT be in the rotor housing waiting screw an apex seal, stuff up the turbo, or stuff up my new cat. I'll assume rotary resurrection is not that dumb to put a fuel injector without the end cap. In that case, the cap is either in the block or stuck in the grommet. Hope it's stuck in the grommet, otherwise a whole new can of worms has been opened up. There's no way for anyone to prove the end cap didn't end up in the rotor housing without tearing down the engine. I really hope that's not the case. Will check tonight. Been so frustrated haven't considered that. The filth: the kind of filth in the water ways, intake manifold, and external stuff is inexcusable. Yeah, some dirt and dust is expected on the external stuff. But yup, a power wash before tearing down the engine before rebuilding would have gone a very very very long way. Sparkling clean? I'm only that hard on myself. To paint a picture of the externals: the timing "distributor" deal on the front of the block (sorry, so tired from work today, the name escapes me) is so dirty, there is no more silver metal or any difference between the housing or cap, just grime. A 2 minute cleaning, what world of difference. A 10 second power was before tearing about the original block would have done real nice. Results from last night's work: The exhaust manifold: cracked. Noticeably cracked. As soon as the turbo came off, the crack was laughing right at me not even a nanosecond later. That's really aggravating. Rotary resurrection wouldn't sell a cracked exhaust manifold on the boards, why pawn one off on the block? No one in their right mind would buy a cracked manifold. Not only that, the exhaust gaskets look very used. Why weren't new ones used? Or at least let me know used one were used? I sure as hell wouldn't have bought the engine knowing that. Aged used seals of unknown use and condition is just asking for trouble. The lower intake manifold: yup, the seal is installed wrong. Same silicon crap on the seal. The crap in the water ways ruined the gasket in those areas. The water pathways: The intake manifold and turbo are lined with some kind of jelly stuff. Never seen that in a rebuilt engine before. I have seen enough rebuilt rotaries to know that jelly stuff doesn't belong. I'm definitely up for having to flush out the block and turbo. No choice. Don't know what rotary resurrection was doing to get that stuff in there, but definitely not anything good. Gotta pay to do that, guess that will have to be refunded. Turbo: I can relax on that. No cracks, in good shape. Just clean and flush the water paths, then all good. Which begs the question: why put a cracked exhaust manifold on the block? |
Yeah, just keeping me logged in. Not saving passwords on any computer. Spyware and viruses just don't play well.
Now on to some of the comments: The reaction show exactly why I expected good work. Too many of you highly of him. His website shows the kind of knowledge he has. So yeah, I do expect properly installed gaskets, and properly inspected components. Mainly being the water pump, exhaust manifold, turbo. i definitely expected flawless installation of all the components. Who is going to warranty en engine with all that main stuff wrong? No one. Which now leads me to believe the engine is set up to fail. He knows the stuff put on is filthy, he knows what happens when filth get into the rotor housing and water passages. No one can convince me otherwise. As soon as I would have fired that engine up, blow the apex seal, then tried to get the engine repaired under warranty, I would have have been sol. Rotary resurrection's reaction: should have cleaned all that up and checked everything first. Ah, but that backfired. The fuel injectors were going to be cleaned and tested anyway. Not complaining about anything except why (possibly) put on an injector without an end cap and why put leave noticeably bad grommets on the injectors? May as well leave the grommets off, put the intake manifold gasket aside and say the grommets need replacing. I would have respected rotary resurrection for that. However, as I thought I mentioned before, I am not counting the egr, acv, vacuum hoses, water hoses, fpr. I expected all that to be trash and had all that on order anyway. Yup, I wrongly gave rotary resurrection crap over the vacuum lines. Apologize for that. I was pretty pissed off at the lack of an attempt to clean the parts off and pay attention to some of the fine details that effect the core engine. What kind of remedy am I looking for? Lower intake manifold gasket for one. I should never have had to take that off to clean the intake paths. 5 minutes with a wire brush and simple green and they're clean now. If rotary resurrection wasn't going to clean up the paths, why install the manifold? An exhaust manifold. Used is fine, but cracked is not good customer service, and not usable for any circumstances. Definitely not and never was expecting new. Replacement exhaust manifold gaskets. Should have used new. The ones installed on the block look old and definitely don't lead me to believe they will seal right. They feel like they've already live their useful life. Not worried about the water pump, already have a new one, free too. But the nerve of putting something rusted on the block is poor, and doesn't go with the usability portion of the sale. The oil pan: the cost of silicon sealant. I'm willing to bet the gasket came with the rebuilt kit. In reality, no gasket is needed. Now I have to figure out if the block is worth building onto or needs tearing down to check. The injector end cap will give me a good idea of what I may end up having to do. Well, pictures to come tomorrow. I'm sure everyone wants to see if I am full of bull. |
Well If the pintle cap is broken, it should stay in the fuel air bleeder plates.
Thanks Robert http://mazdatrix.com/c-6.htm |
Yeah, should be. In fact, I would hope so. With my luck, the bleeder plates are broken. Tomorrow everyone will know the outcome of that.
Originally Posted by fc3s91
Well If the pintle cap is broken, it should stay in the fuel air bleeder plates.
Thanks Robert http://mazdatrix.com/c-6.htm |
With all this bashing, well not all bashing, I do want to re-point out the good stuff. It's easy to ignore the good stuff when there's negatives all over. Shipping was awesome. Did a great job. Engine paint is great. Solid paint, and can handle a little abuse from engine hoists and engine work. You want your engine painted, rotary resurrection does do a great job on that. If the block was sent to me short block, I would be pissing my pants wanting to get the car running.
I did find something on the block that did make me step back and make me go oooooh. All of the vacuum attached to the lower intake manifold that is hidden under the upper intake manifold is practically brand new. The plastic distribution piece for the oilers looks great, and does hold vacuum, when the vacuum outputs are covered. The small water hoses, minus one for me being cautious, are in excellent condition. I noticed those two items first, and was pretty shocked to see all that was in good shape. The drive train components are in excellent condition. I was expecting to have to replace the drive shaft because of possibly wearing u joints. Nope, drive shaft is in great shape. The real shocker: the egr works. Damn, i never see a working egr on any rotary engine. I got my new na one ready to convert to the turbo 2 engine, but i may end up using the t2 egr for a while anyway. It's not all doom and gloom. But the stuff that really counts was messed up. Everyone have a good night. I gotta get home and the pictures I promised ready to post. |
Just so you know, the jelly "stuff" is most likely vasoline, which most everyone who builds these things uses to keep the coolant o-rings in place....and I am wondering the same thing, did you buy this thing used or a full rebuild expecting new everything....lets get that clear and how much did just the engine part cost? Really, and not to bash you, but it sounds like you are trying to buy champagne on a beer budget and expect the champagne quality to go with....and depending on how long the motor sat, rust will develope where there is no coolant touching the metal surfaces...its called oxidation. Just like when right after a rain storm and you develope rust on them within a day of sitting.
Like another poster said, if you paid 4 grand just for the motor, then yea, most of the things should be checked and replaced...but if you paid cheaper, then you werent paying for all the other stuff. Other shops do rebuilds and just bolt exisisting external parts back on the car...and no they arent going to be spotless with 80-100K of wear on them, like brackets and what not. Bottom line is, stop whining and bitching if you cant afford to buy a new motor and new accessories to go with the New motor. |
I hear it coming......................
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Why does it feel like a nuclear bomb is about to go off? ***Grabs canned goods, pron, and beer and runs for the bomb shelter***
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Alarm Red Air Attack!!!!
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first time i've heard anything bad about kevin....waiting...waiiiitinggg......
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Originally Posted by danec020
I have been seeing a lot of RR threads poping up lately. I think you were expecting a little much. Reread his thread and it is clear that the motor is rebuilt but all other accessories are old parts that stil work, maybe not 100% perfectly. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...Turbo+Swap+Kit . This line right here states what you are complaining about and in no way did he claim he was going to clean, or use new items.
From his post: "IT would not be a bad idea to go over a few key areas of the engine later on. These include fuel injectors (cleaning and new rubber), water pump, thermostat, etc. These parts will be in good, useable condition when they leave here, however they are original with 100+k miles on them." At the same time I can understand your problems with some of the issues you discussed, but Kevin usually seems to set things straight, so give him a chance before going all post happy. The biggest worry I would have is the amount of stuff that has gotten into the engine. Good luck, and hope your issues get resolved. Dane Let's see those pictures ! and would someone please ask Kevin to join us...... i'm sitting here with my popcorn,my beer is getting warm i'm waiting for the show to begin :D |
Greg is completely right. If this was a budget build, you got what you payed for and really cant complain about it. He helped YOU for building this motor for cheap. Bitching about a clean motor? That is a joke. Unless you PAY for the motor to be cleaned, and painted(which kevin normally does on his rebuilds) dont expect it. It sounds to me like you barly got by with getting this swap, and didnt pay for the best stuff, but now relize its coming back on you. Do it right the first time.
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Originally Posted by socalrotor
I hear it coming......................
I have to admit...I am pretty dumbfounded at this. I am literally reading this with my mouth hung open in disbelief and disgust. I am making this face as I read this ---> :uhh: This is some real bullshit, I have to say. Here this guy is making it out like I ripped him off or did a shitty rebuild. The truth of the matter is, he doesnt have a CLUE what it is like to really get ripped off. Take a look around man, there are people sending hundreds and thousands of dollars for parts and cars and getting either NOTHING, or ABSOLUTE JUNK in return. You paid less than the parts were worth and are bitching because everything isn't brand fucking new. GROW UP. We're dealing with parts from 1987 here, not 2007. You've got a walk in the park with this deal, and I'm about to show everyone why below. You guys wanna know why the pool of respectable, honest sellers and mechanics for rotaries is thinning out by the day? It's because of jackass behavior like this. More and more good guys are realizing it is not worth their time or effort to deal with the rotary community. More and more scammers are moving in to take their place, and we see hundreds of innocent buyers per year get screwed over because of it. IF you want good pricing and honest sellers, stop being whiney bitches and be realistic in what you expect. The last rx-7 in north america was made 15 model years ago, so take that into consideration when buying used stuff. Because of the actions of a few like this guy, the many will continue to suffer. I think this guy may be used to working on or seeing newer cars/parts, maybe late model hondas or something. Rotary stuff gets dirty and deteriorates quickly due to the heat and complexity of the setup. I think a lot of what he says comes from simple non-experience with rotary setups...anyone who has seen a lot of engines knows that half of what he is bitching about is commonly accepted. For instance, he is bitching about a cracked turbo manifold, yet almost all s4 turbo manifolds are cracked in the same spot in a noticeable manner. I also think the original poster is a grade-a jackass for posting this publicly instead of coming to me. Last I heard from him about 2 months ago he stwas a bit dismayed by the dirt on the external parts, was going to clean the stuff to his own standard and replace a few maintenance items as well, but was otherwise happy. Sucks that he didnt have the balls to come to me first, but instead had to run onto the forum like a whiny little child tattling to his Mommy because a bully chased him on the playground. As I was reading this thread for the first time, I couldn't get this image out of my head (apparently this section does not allow IMG tags for some reason so you have to click): http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/kl...d_all_that.jpg |
Now that last part (the Colin Powell trash joke...) was really f*#king uncool, maihn, and totally out of place and totally out of character....is this some jacka$$ that's logged onto Kevin's PC to post as him??
And again, just how much trouble is it to walk around an engine with a power washer and knock off grime?:rolleyes:...I really wish "whiney butt" would say how much he paid (it is NOT payed, BTW) for the long block, but if it went past $1500, then there shouldn't be any accumulated grime on the engine anywhere...a little here and there, maybe burnt or caked film, but nothing requiring a screw driver to dig out. Not clean enough to eat off of, mind you, but it shouldn't appear as a "grimy" engine, period, from any angle. THANK GOD your link didn't pop that blatantly offensive image to this forum... :cool: |
First, before I pick apart this freakin NOVEL that the original poster wrote, let's clarify what the BUYER ACTUALLY PAID FOR. Here is the thread in question where the transaction was born. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...Turbo+Swap+Kit
As already posted by someone above (someone with ACTUAL COMMON SENSE) it clearly states in the thread: "External parts such as injectors, transmission, turbo etc. are not covered under warranty. " and "IT would not be a bad idea to go over a few key areas of the engine later on. These include fuel injectors (cleaning and new rubber), water pump, thermostat, etc. These parts will be in good, useable condition when they leave here, however they are original with 100+k miles on them." I'm not sure how much clearer it could have been made. So, above all else, the seller bought a setup with ORIGINAL, OLD, USED ACCESSORIES, and that is exactly what he RECEIVED. I delivered exactly what was advertised. One other point needs to be made. THIS ENGINE WAS BUILT FOR ANOTHER CUSTOMER AND LATER SOLD TO THIS BUYER INSTEAD. Had this guy been the buyer from day one, he could have told me what he wanted, supplied some new parts, and gotten exactly what he asked for. The customer that contracted the engine to be built specified that he did not want any replacement parts or special consideration be given, he just wanted the setup in it's most basic form. The engine was built and assembled to that buyer's requirements and then test run. Only after this was ownership transferred to the new buyer. Now, let's do some basic math here based upon market value of parts in question. The total cost of the package was $2600. This included a rebuilt turbo II shortblock. INdustry standard pricing for a basic build of a turbo shortblock is in excess of $2000 (let's sit aside the fact that I work cheaper than the rest). Also, no core or core charge was required, this was an outright sale. Core charges range from $500-1000 with most builders. So, looking at the big picture, the shortblock itself was pretty much worth the entire cost of the swap, if you want to look at it that way. IF you choose not to look at it that way, read on. BUT WAIT, there's more. The swap included an entire turbo II drivetrain, complete from flywheel to axles. Including the much sought after t2 rear differential, which in itself can sell for as much as $300. I usually get $400-600 out of JUST the drivetrain parts. So again, the $2600 cost of the swap is more than offset by the value of the shortblock and the drivetrain. BUT WAIT, there's more. Also included with this swap was all the electronic sensors and accessories needed to make the turbo engine run. Including boost sensor, knock box, ecu, throttle cable, airflow meter. These parts in themselves should probably be worth $100-150 on the open market any day of the week. So now we're up to $3100+ worth of parts for $2600. Not a bad deal, eh? BUT WAIT, there's more!!!! IN addition, new intake and oil gaskets were supplied at a cost exceeding $100. The turbo/manifold and turbo/dp gasket were not new, but were inspected used parts in useable condition with no blown out spots or breaks. These metal turbo gaskets are over $100 for just the 2 of them, and doing the math shows why I could clearly not have supplied new ones for the quoted cost of the swap. I am already GIVING this shit away as it is! All the longblock accessories were included as well. Turbo, manifold, waterpump, alternator, intake, wiring, injectors, etc. In unknown condition, these parts would be worth 2 or 300 dollars on the open market easily. Hell, the injectors themselves are worth 100 bucks for a set of 4, and even a rough condition t2 harness is worth 100 bucks. Even if you play devil's advocate and call ALL of these parts junk, a total loss (clearly not the case since the engine was test run for 25+ hours) then you're still no worse off. THESE PARTS WERE BASICALLY INCLUDED FREE. How or why should I be held responsible, or let this guy act like I did him wrong, WHEN HE IS BITCHING ABOUT THE QUALITY AND CLEANLINESS OF FREE PARTS?!?! Did I build these accessories? If not, how the hell can you expect me to guarantee them? HELLO, COMMON SENSE? No, these external parts were not cleaned. Furthermore they normally do not GET cleaned by me unless I am specifically paid more to do so. WHy would I? I charge a certain amount for the SHORTBLOCk rebuild. IT has absolutely nothing to do with the external stuff. IN this case the external parts were clearly specified as old, used stuff in that condition. Nowhere did I state that the parts would be cleaned externally. Nor did I state that any particular part would be guaranteed or even inspected closely. When I take all this stuff off a core, I lay it out on the floor. When I have built the shortblock, I start getting those accessories one by one and clean the gasket mating surfaces to bare metal. I spray off electrical connections (injectors etc.) with brake cleaner, and I bolt it all back together. Whatever you started off with is what you end up with. If I see no obvious defect then it goes back on. If I see an obvious defect that is normal or minor, and I know will not affect the running of the engine, it goes back on. If I see an obvious defect that I judge will be an issue, I find a used replacement and charge extra. The exception is when I am asked (and paid extra) to clean the parts and do a more thorough inspection of each component, or when the customer sends their own replacement parts for installation. By his logic, any of the used accessories with any flaw whatsoever should have been replaced. This would have cost several hundred/thousand extra dollars. I am unsure how the buyer could realistically expect this given the math posted above. To address some of the posters concerns specifically: There is absolutely no excuse for the long block stuff being dirty, at all. Even for someone like rotary resurrection who can clean stuff up very easily. That’s assuming he is using a parts cleaning vat. First thing I noticed: there's a gasket on the oil pan. What? A gasket, and a crappy one at that? Come on now, rotary resurrection should know better. One of the bolts was messed up, but still wrenched into the manifold. What kind of idiot wrenches an easily seen messed up bolt into an intake manifold? Everyone: Rotary Resurrection does, that’s who! Why bother using the bolt if it's messed up? I cannot always undo every fuckup on an old part. Oh, I guess since that one hole was roughed up, I should have just said to myself "hey, fuck this manifold, I am made of money, let me go buy another one instead, wait another week or 2 for it to arrive, and in all likelihood it will have a stripped hole too". Since there is no stress on the TMIC mounting bolts, I saw no problem with chasing a tap through the stripped aluminum on the UIM, putting a bolt in for cosmetics sake, and calling it a day. Or would you rather I have spent about 30 bucks and 2 hours helicoiling a set of threads that serve no useful purpose? WTF are you thinking? I decided to pull the upper intake manifold. What do I find? Intake manifolds that are sealed with an oem looking gasket and silicon used to help seal the manifolds. Whoa, wait a minute, silicon? To seal manifolds? bunch of misc. bitching about small components not being tested in working order Time to look at the water pump. At least rotary resurrection can't be dumb enough to mess that up. Wanna bet? Looked at the water exit pipe. Lined with orange rust crap. Not only that, the gaskets are installed wrong, no high tack sealant visible anywhere. Massive water leaks waiting to just happen. Gotta pull the water pump and housing. When I did, oh the mess. The water pump is rusted on the inside and has some hard crap on the outside. The impeller, housing, everything has rust. Not a coloring from using red coolant, but actual rust. Noticing how bad the water pump and water ways are in the engine block, gotta check out the lower intake manifold. To no surprise, loaded with crap as well. Lower intake manifold has to come out and the internal air paths have to be cleaned out. Just staring at the manifold, crap falls off the walls of the pathways into the engine. Anyone wanna tell rotary resurrection why that is bad? A messy irritation is now becoming a massive pissed off rebuild a rebuilt engine session. The lower manifold comes off on Friday, bet the gasket sitting against the engine block is sealed wrong too! By now I am scared shitless of the apex seals. Take off 3, that's 3, not a typo for 2, trailing spark plugs and 1 lead spark plug. Um, gee, how come there's 3 trailing plugs? Hopefully the engine wasn't run like that either. If you’re going to fool someone, at least have the decency to put the proper numbers of each spark plug. If I am lucky, the crap in the water paths hasn't already messed up the water jacket (highly highly doubt it, but you never know), and the apex seals won't blow during the break in from all the crap sitting on them. The warranty is the only thing convincing me not convincing me to train that engine right back to rotary resurrection for a proper rebuild. However, the supplied throw out bearing is beyond usable. Yup, the bearing is trash. Also, the slave cylinder is sooooo rusted, I can't trust the slave cylinder. By the way, the flywheel wasn’t tightened to 300 foot pounds torque, barely 100. I put that against the engine rebuild. Swapped the lsd tag to the one on my lsd, mine looked better. Just a nit picky thing, but satisfying to me anyways. When Kevin responds, I would like to know if he is taking business at the end of the month, S5, ported rebuild. I heard/seen GREAT things from RR from the wankler on rebuilds and plan on being a future customer. TO answer your question, I'll be taking a few more jobs at the first of May. I'd be happy to help you then, but be sure and check with me promptly as the 3-4 monthly spots fill up within the first week and everything is on a first come basis. I thought this was another joke thread at first but mabe not. Results from last night's work: The exhaust manifold: cracked. Noticeably cracked. As soon as the turbo came off, the crack was laughing right at me not even a nanosecond later. That's really aggravating. Rotary resurrection wouldn't sell a cracked exhaust manifold on the boards, why pawn one off on the block? No one in their right mind would buy a cracked manifold. The lower intake manifold: yup, the seal is installed wrong. Same silicon crap on the seal. Care to tell me exactly how you install a one-way gasket "wrong"? Seriously, indulge me. I'd like to hear about this. :ugh2: The water pathways: The intake manifold and turbo are lined with some kind of jelly stuff. Never seen that in a rebuilt engine before. I have seen enough rebuilt rotaries to know that jelly stuff doesn't belong. I'm definitely up for having to flush out the block and turbo. No choice. Don't know what rotary resurrection was doing to get that stuff in there, but definitely not anything good. Gotta pay to do that, guess that will have to be refunded. Who is going to warranty en engine with all that main stuff wrong? No one. Which now leads me to believe the engine is set up to fail. He knows the stuff put on is filthy, he knows what happens when filth get into the rotor housing and water passages. No one can convince me otherwise. As soon as I would have fired that engine up, blow the apex seal, then tried to get the engine repaired under warranty, I would have have been sol. Rotary resurrection's reaction: should have cleaned all that up and checked everything first. Ah, but that backfired. What kind of remedy am I looking for? Lower intake manifold gasket for one. I should never have had to take that off to clean the intake paths. 5 minutes with a wire brush and simple green and they're clean now. If rotary resurrection wasn't going to clean up the paths, why install the manifold? An exhaust manifold. Used is fine, but cracked is not good customer service, and not usable for any circumstances. Definitely not and never was expecting new. Replacement exhaust manifold gaskets. Should have used new. The ones installed on the block look old and definitely don't lead me to believe they will seal right. They feel like they've already live their useful life. Not worried about the water pump, already have a new one, free too. But the nerve of putting something rusted on the block is poor, and doesn't go with the usability portion of the sale. The oil pan: the cost of silicon sealant. I'm willing to bet the gasket came with the rebuilt kit. In reality, no gasket is needed. On a serious note though, you can "want in one hand, shit in the other, and see which one fills up faster", because you're not getting jack from me. Governing warranty terms of interest: "External parts such as injectors, transmission, turbo etc. are not covered under warranty." Shortblock warranty terms: Below is a quick outline of the warranty. Note all restrictions. By purchasing an engine you agree to all conditions set below: "Absolutely no cash refunds, full or partial" "All warranty is void if the engine BLOCK is disassembled in part or full before being returned to me in the event of a claim." "I do NOT warranty any items I install outside the short block whether they were originally yours or I sell them to you. This may include manifolds, turbos, injectors, wiring, water pumps, alternators, etc." "I do NOT warranty any issues regarding installation of the engine that I perform. For instance, if you have me install an engine into your car and later your original radiator hose busts, or you have an electrical problem, or an oil pan leak, I am not liable." These terms were written in for just such an occurence. To prevent me from being taken advantage of by someone such as yourself who wants something for nothing. I am fully capable of building just about any engine setup someone would ask of me. However, I cannot and will not do it for free or cheap. For an engine assembled with the new parts you were expecting would have cost double what you paid. |
Originally Posted by mar3
Now that last part (the Colin Powell trash joke...) was really f*#king uncool, maihn, and totally out of place and totally out of character....is this some jacka$$ that's logged onto Kevin's PC to post as him??
And again, just how much trouble is it to walk around an engine with a power washer and knock off grime?:rolleyes: THANK GOD your link didn't pop that blatantly offensive image to this forum... :cool: And of course you know that your opinion is the guiding factor in how I handle business. :rolleyes: Man, do you not know how to use any smiley other than that one that you use in every post? Don't you have something better to do in DoO? I do not always get cores assembled you know. Sometimes I get a car full of parts, or I buy the stuff from someone else already taken apart. Further, there's no reason for me to clean the longblock stuff in any manner unless I am asked to or paid to. By the same token that "it is not hard to pressurewash the parts off", then why is this buyer bitching so much about it. Since "it is not hard" then it shouldn't be a problem...right? |
touche....still, real gearheads ALL have pressure washers just like they have three or more rolling tool cabinets....;)
And the answer is no....:cool: |
Well, putting your bullshit opinions aside re: the pressurewashing, surely you must be able to stand back and examine the facts, and come to the conclusion that it is a moot point. One, the parts in question were free, so what condition they are in does not matter. Two, it was clearly stated in advance in several places that the parts were unwarrantied, so again condition there does not matter.
Bottom line, the buyer got what he paid for and what was advertised. |
$1500 short block from JIS is amazingly free of grime....so it's not a bullshit opinion, you're just justifying a short cut...I agree with the rest of your bullshit conclusions, however...;)
:cool: |
If you don't mind, brush up on your reading comprehension and try again. The buyer clearly admits several times that the SHORTBLOCK (the part that I built and warrantied) is perfectly clean and beautifully painted. His bitch was about the external stuff, which again is free and unwarrantied.
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Hmm, that is why I don't sell used engines to the public. Everybody wants more than what they paid for it. You want a clean block? I will clean it for you, but don't expect me to put it back together for you. All the outside accessories will be shipped in other boxes.
Then again I am not a business and I am not expected to maintain high standards. Even though the local guys here know I am picky and try to keep high standards. I think RR did a fair deal. The rest is something that should have been addressed by both parties. The buyer should have asked more questions or should have known what to expect. It clearly states in his website. |
These parts will be in good, useable condition when they leave here Well, putting your bullshit opinions aside re: the pressurewashing, surely you must be able to stand back and examine the facts, and come to the conclusion that it is a moot point. One, the parts in question were free, so what condition they are in does not matter. Two, it was clearly stated in advance in several places that the parts were unwarrantied, so again condition there does not matter. These parts will be in good, useable condition when they leave here Looked at the apex seals through the exhaust ports, clean, seat looking. The block itself ought to run great. What the fuck are you talking about? Everybody has their own opinion on the oil pan sealing on rotaries. I have tried all the common methods. in FC and FD applications I seem to have the best luck with a paper gasket and a thin layer of sealant on each side, after cleaning both mating surfaces with brake cleaner and wiping off with a clean towel. My personal FC has a gasket on it and does not leak...it was sealed in the same manner. Oilpan bolts are torqued to spec, which isn't a lot mind you. To say I should "know better" implies that there's a known defect in doing it this way, which there is none proven. You should have "known better" than to call me out, however, as you will now get |
Oh yeah, about that jelly stuff in the water pathways. Yup, I use Vaseline for installation. But, there's a hitch. After about 25 hours of idle, the vaseline should be gone. I've had to tear engines down after 1 hour of idle time for pretesting, no visible anything in the water pathways. Well, in the tester radiator. But that's flushed after every test run.
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I will say it again for the reading comprehension challenged:
GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL. ALL SERIES 4 TURBO MANIFOLDS ARE USUALLY CRACKED. IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND ONE WITH NO CRACKING. EVERYONE RUNNING A SERIES 4 MANIFOLD HAS TO DEAL WITH CRACKS. THERE IS NO AFTERMARKET SUPPLIER FOR THEM, AND WELDING THE CAST MANIFOLDS IS DOUBTFUL AT BEST. EVEN IF I HAD TRIED TO BUY A REPLACEMENT, IT ALSO WOULD HAVE BEEN CRACKED. OUT OF ABOUT 200 MANIFOLDS I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN, I HAVE FOUND EXACTLY ONE WITHOUT ANY CRACKS. IF YOU DOUBT THIS, GO POST A POLL OF THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN THEIR SERIES 4 TURBO MANIFOLD WITH THEIR OWN EYES AND CHECKED FOR CRACKS. GREATER THAN 90% WILL RESPOND THAT THEIRS IS CRACKED. Oil pan gasket: Odds are it wasnt leaking. There is some oil spilled when I disconnect the oil cooler lines, oil pressure gauge, and such on the test stand. Some of it runs down the engine before I can get it wiped off and might look like the pan was leaking. |
After reading kevin's response, I have come to the conclusion that the thread starter is not a customer I would want to deal with. Unbelievable.....
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[QUOTE}Oil pan gasket: Odds are it wasnt leaking. There is some oil spilled when I disconnect the oil cooler lines, oil pressure gauge, and such on the test stand. Some of it runs down the engine before I can get it wiped off and might look like the pan was leaking.[/QUOTE]
What about the areas where there's no oil connections? Oil drips, no kidding. Why all the way around the oil pan, the gasket is loaded with oil? |
I think you HAVE to be exaggerating. It's odd that you claim to have such big issues, while every other build is running around perfectly fine. We'll let the public decide.
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im still gonna have kevin rebuild my motor;)....
of course whenever i can afford it! |
seller delivered everything as promised, in the condition as stated on the original thread.
+1 for rotary resurrection -1 buyer "one of my free parts is bad, i think i'll start a thread to whine about it" |
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