Unfulfilled Promises, Bad Customer support
 

I do not know where to start because this has been going on for like 3 and half years and it made me one angry and upset dude, but Ill try to be calm and honest. I was a happy new rx7 owner who decided to built car that was my all time favorite. After 3 and half years this car is still down picking up the dust... Started like a dream, I had this vision in my head of car I wanted and I decided to talk to most known shop in phoenix about it - Arizona Rotory Rockets. That was the worst decision I ever made. I wont mention the name o the person because that is against the rules of this forum, but this shop gave me all the numbers that will cost to complete the built (single turbo)and time how long would it take (it was not 3.5 years). it sounded great. Promissed some discounts etc...I also told them what was my budget (11K). Well, I knew these builts always cost more than predicted but not 2 times more compare to what I was told by AZRR (8-10K :)) This thing was drying me to the last dollar. I can not remember all the details but from the moment I dropped the engine and tried to talk to AZRR I was disapointed that things were not done and there are more and more expences. I expected from guys who do this every day to give me close estimate but this was going over my head!. Nothing as I was told first day. I finally lost my cool waiting for stuff to be done (about a year) and I went and picked up the engine (whatever was done). Took it home, finished it, and wiring to Haltech was left. It seemed so complicated I asked for help anywhere I could, and finally I could not find anyone and decided to swallow my pride and ask AZRR again (pay them off course), guess what , same thing keep happening, promise they will show up, day by day, month by month... nothing ... Ok I decided to finish it myself. I'm glad today that I did beacuse I learned a lot about this car. It was aggravating. Well lets put money aside, I would not even complained, maybe I should have read more and not expect from them to tell me what is waiting for me, but!!!! unfulfilled promisses, delays, lies, sweet talk to get ride of me, ... ok... I got my car on dyno few months back... yeah! works! Had some overheating issues started to remove turbo, manifold downpipe... for coating and I found leak between the engine and the manifold, manifold and turbo... I heard these leaks before but I could not locate them but now I found what was the cause... cheaply made exhaust manifold that bent, one bold came out of the manifold (turbo side) , just bad quality material. I paid 900 for it, only dyno time and all these problems., are you kidding me. Manifold was built by AZRR. I took the manifold for the repair to azrr and they said you overheated your manifold, they made it flat again and then they said , if you want we will build you another one , better for free. All I had to do is leave my manifold there and they will build one when they are not busy. I kinda knew what is waiting for me but I said ok I can wait a month. Today was half of that month and I just ask if there was any progress, guess what , he said you manifold is freebie dont bother us , we will get to it when we have time. They even said take your manifold if the time is the issue... rude again. Well one month is what you promised... can not you keep your promises for once since I was 20K customer.... I lost my cool , I will pick up the manifold and done deal. I'm writing this during my work time when my bos is waiting for to do things... im already running late on ... anyways.. you understand my frustration. I expect some people to come back at me ... thats fine but here is another voice against those who only care about you until you make that payment , later who gives a shit. 3 years I was hesitent to write this post, now here it is... There was lot more just can not remmember everything..

I can understand you are upset. If you could break that up into paragraphs so people can actually understand what you are upset about it would help. I'm not reading that and trying to decipher it. Haha.

I agree and you are totaly right, looks like bunch words put into the blender... I'm not upset about only one thing, I hope you see that... It's been piling up for a long time and finally I just decided to write this review in short time at work. In the beggining I was keeping it calm, try to understand from their perspectives, be cool... and what not, but when I look back and add all up I have been humiliated by this shop. So forgive me if my post was unclear and hard to read, but I'm upset RX7 owner who is getting ready to sell everything!
To summarize :
- Waiting for things to be done forever. Never on time. My engine was laying in their shop for like a year, 3 and half years later because of them my car is still down
- Unfulfilled promises... lost count how many
- Given some discounts in the beggining which were lost later on.
- Was told to pay one thing , bill was close to 2 times more.
- Sweet talk to drag you in and beggining of the project.
- No customer support afterwards
- Sold me crappy exhaust manifold, only dyno time and leaks everywhere, I have pics to show. Told me that I overheated manifold and it started bending. Told me it would take month to make a new one (better) for free.. free, gift? This never happened!
- Sold me used clutch for 200 which I had to replace right after dyno. They told me it should be fine for at least 10k miles. Time and effort and more money to install new one...
- Everytime we had disagreement AZRR would say : "we are done" .

Do not expect any customer support after you make payment and wait forever for things to be done!

Manifold picture from Arizona Rotary Rockets ($900)
 

It's same from both sides

They are two sides to this story..... I don't want to drag this out and make both parties look bad. Bottom line is we are Sorry this person feels this way . We wish we could please everyone. I am not sure what this person wants but so far I have tried to help and I have fallen short. All I can say is most everything in this has been exaggerated. I will be back with detail. I have to gether up our invoices to Hiboost and I have recorded every conversation and saved all transactions. I will be posting all of the details soon.

so you will be posting those details soon? hmmm, looks like the op is accurate with the above accusations,i personally would stay the hell away from your business until i was convinced this guy didnt get ripped...

2 months and a week is enough to time to gather all information, where is it??? :scratch:

20k and no running car?? WTF !!!!

Details:

1. customer paid 2500 for t67 turbo kit. Kit included turbo, down pipe, manifold, waste gate, turbo plumbing.

2. Customer paid 11k for engine ( all new mazda parts including rotor housings), turbo kit, fuel system(cj rail kit, Injector dynamic injectors), Ground zero lower intake, parts polished, new water pump, ss omp lines etc....

He also bought other parts that added up, such as a brand new haltech system with harness, pulley kit, etc.

3. The customer brought us an engine , The engine was pulled by the customer.

4. At the end the customer ran out of money and asked if i could help him with a clutch. We sold him a clutch from a customer that had it running on a 300hp plus car. The customer even said " when I have more money i will get a better clutch".

5. We wanted to help the customer with wiring the ECU offered to do it at no charge , however we were very busy trying to keep up with other customer projects. We told the customer that we would try and help but could not promise anything.

6. In the end this all started because the customer was offered an upgrade for free, we were not able to get it done in his time frame and he became very rude threatening and demanding. We no longer offer the customer an upgrade for free. The manifold that we sold him was made ina batch the others are running fine on other cars with no issues.

Here is a picture of the customers engine setup.

picture of engine and turbo set up...

As you can see we did not "rip" anyone off. I am in no way saying we are perfect, we are sorry this person is not happy. We tried to help him out and make him happy.

So just to get things clear....

He paid you 13500 dollars, to have a motor built by you guys?? Did you tell him that you would wire it, only to never have it done? How would you say this overheating caused one of the manifold bolts to just come out? It looks to me like the manifold wasn't bolted down properly (by you or him), but if he picked the motor, and you told him complete just add wires, this is not a good way to treat a (what I think) high dollar customer. As it looks in the pictures, you had the manifold bolted down, correct me if I'm wrong. If that is the case, the manifold is for sure your problem.

Also, the fact that he brought you "Just the engine," but you replaced everything (your words, not mine), what does that have anything to do with it?

I am also curious of the time frame. From drop off to any pickup dates, or interaction dates.

If it really took you more than a year, there is definitely some explaining to do.

What is causing the leak too?

He could have bought a whole damn car, single turbo modified well for what he paid you guys, just for the motor. No joke.

I wish this guy would have said "here is 13k I want running car" to me!!!!

if the motor was put together using all new mazda parts,you should list that,i know new rotor housings,etc. are ungodly expensive that could help(or hurt) your side of the story,if he really did have to replace that(used)clutch after a dyno run then it wasnt worth squat

if that manifold cost him $900, from the pics it looks like it at least needs surfacing to make it flat again,he would deserve that much...... rude or not

I've got news for you guys, 11k is about right for all of those things listed below. Armchair quarterbacks and those just looking to stir the pot need not post anything unless they feel like getting a short vaction :icon_tup:

"2. Customer paid 11k for engine ( all new mazda parts including rotor housings), turbo kit, fuel system(cj rail kit, Injector dynamic injectors), Ground zero lower intake, parts polished, new water pump, ss omp lines etc...."

I am a bit concerned that the turbo kit is mentioned twice in the numbers....first, you say the customer paid $2500 for the turbo setup. Then, you included the turbo kit in the cost of the engine. I am also concerned that you say the mani was "one of a batch" and that the others are working fine--that does not mean anything at all so I do not know why you mentioned it. Lots of companies make things in batches, that does not mean that they no longer stand by their work because "the other ones we made at that time are good".

I also would like your take on the time frame for all of this. You said you put off the wiring work, but what about the build itself? How long did it take you to get his engine to him the first time? If it really did take over a year, something is not right....

I mentioned the price twice to make it clear that the customer paid 2500.00 for the kit not 900.00 for the manifold.

Time frame was exaggerated. Not only did it not take a year but the first 4 month I had no money from the customer to start. He left the state for a new job and we kept the engine until he had made some money and was settled in with his new job and new location.

TL;DR

99% of shops will not warranty an install if they did not do it. Therefore, if that manifold came off the engine when doing the install, most places will not warranty it. I don't know the full situation, but this is likely how most shops would handle a customer regarding a manifold they installed.

Let me provide my opinion on AZRR and Glen by answering / replying to some of the OP's comments.

- Waiting for things to be done forever. Never on time. My engine was laying in their shop for like a year, 3 and half years later because of them my car is still down. This is speculative, you can blame AZRR all you want, but your car could be down for many reasons.
- Unfulfilled promises... lost count how many (any smart customer will know that a promise is not a guarantee, Glen does his best to keep customers happy, but its not so cut and dry, but things change, people leave, customers change their mind, schedules change, I wouldn't hold that against any business owner unless they specifically gave me a guarantee)
- Given some discounts in the beggining which were lost later on. (how do you figure? he may have gave you a discount, but then discovered you needed more parts, was he supposed to give you those for free too? Just asking, again I don't know the facts)
- Was told to pay one thing , bill was close to 2 times more. (again, you needed more parts, he can't give away stuff. You were given an ESTIMATE, and a price can be exact until everything is broken down)
- Sweet talk to drag you in and beggining of the project. (Sales, he doesn't have a sales rep, he sells his own product.)
- No customer support afterwards (Glen does not have a customer support line, but he does have a lot of customers that need their projects finished. I highly doubt he'd throw you to the curb)
- Sold me crappy exhaust manifold, only dyno time and leaks everywhere, I have pics to show. Told me that I overheated manifold and it started bending. Told me it would take month to make a new one (better) for free.. free, gift? This never happened! (Were you up front with him about it? If he said he'd cover replacing a manifold, I would believe him)
- Sold me used clutch for 200 which I had to replace right after dyno. They told me it should be fine for at least 10k miles. Time and effort and more money to install new one... (Did he bust out the dial calipers and measure the clutch surface? Doubtful. Guess what, I just about a car and asked for an estimate on a clutch. Guy estimated 20k miles left on it, and it went out in 600 bucks. I asked him to cover half of my replacement costs, he agreed. Just a similar situation I was in... you can't ask someone for the life of a clutch, its different for every car, every driver, every situation.)
- Everytime we had disagreement AZRR would say : "we are done" .

Not to use this as an excuse for Glen, but he's a busy guy... a no b.s., busy as hell guy, trying to make a living and a better product for all his customers. I've seen his work, the builds, the power his engines make, and the quality of works he puts into them. Well worth the money. I would go as far to say that he builds one of the better engines in this country, having had about 4 built by various vendors myself, his is/was top notch.

I can't speak on the business issues that Glen has to face, but I can tell you that you'll be taken care of. Sure, it may not be the quickest turn around, but if Glen dropped everything for every customer, nobody would ever get anything. He's nearly a one man show, he builds the engine from the ground up, so when he puts them together, you know you're getting his work and experience, not anybody with a shop manual and a eye for mechanics.

I know Glen, I know what he has to deal with, and I've dealt with him for a long time. I'll tell you he takes more bullshit than most business owners would ever take, and I feel that 99% of the shit he takes is not because of his work, it's because the customer wants something done half assed and when they don't get half assed and they get a bill for a quality build, they find something to bitch about. Not saying thats the case here, but why build a quality engine to crap it out with other ebay b.s.

Pay to play, be patient, and address the issues accordingly.

I hope things work out for you, but bad mouthing his work on the forum is not going to get things done for you any quicker. You ask for his help, he decides to take care of a manifold with a free replacement, then you crap all over his shop.

As I said, I don't have all the facts, I'm just going off what I know from Glen and what you've posted. But, I really hope it works out in the end for both of you. When your car is back up and running, you'll be happy you stuck with AZRR and feel that these comments weren't posted in the first place.

I asked why you mentioned the turbo kit twice when detailing the costs. I was not asking about the mani. You said he paid $2500 for the turbo kit. You then said he paid $11K for the engine, at which point, you listed the parts he paid for in that engine......and thats where you mentioned the turbo kit again, the one you even admit he already paid $2500 for. This is the point I am trying to clarify, please let me know.

Also, please understand, I am not trying to knock your business. I just want to get to the bottom of this. The manifold seems to have gone wrong. Regardless of what any other customer's experience was, is it impossible for this one mani to have had a legitimate problem? I have yet to see anyone here, including yourself, post anything that says "the manifold was not done wrong, here is what happened". If this engine seriously only had dyno time, and it overheated this badly, then I would imagine that there would have been more damage to the engine than just the mani, no?

Is he telling the truth about spending in the neighborhood of $20K at your shop on this project? Honestly, it seems as if you danced around that in your response.

He said that when he asked you about progress on the free replacement manifold you offered, you told him, "yours is a free one, dont bother us" and "we will get to it when we have time". is this correct?

I have one other observation, and this is something that we have dealt with on this forum with other vendors. In my book, when a customer spends nearly $20,000 at a shop, that person has the right to expect that they will receive reasonably prompt service. Note, I said "reasonably prompt". It is not reasonable to think that you should drop everyone else's car until theirs is done. But in this deal, problems did come up. When those problems came up, you agreed to make good. At that point, the mindset should not have been "we'll get to you when we can fit you in, we're doing this for free". The guy paid you money to have a proper manifold and he apparently did not get one, so the fact that he isnt paying for the replacement does not matter--he is waiting to get what you told him you would provide for the money he already spent. Again, I dont expect you to drop everything for him, but imagine how you would feel--being the customer, it is not your fault that the mani went wrong. So why should you be made to wait on and on and on? I disagree with that.

I do not know your shop. It sounds like you are basically a one-man show. Might I suggest that you not take on so much at one time? We have seen this before too--good mechanical service is only part of what customers are paying for. We all know that projects like these can take a while, but this one sounds like it went on for quite a while. I understand what you are saying about the first four months, but he's talking about over a year going by, and at that point the work still wasnt done.

Hiboost, if the builder is waiting for you for parts, you lose the right to complain about timeframe. You should have parts ready before they are needed. You should always save some extra money in case the budget runs over. A week delay waiting on your part doesn't lead to the deadline being pushed back a week. Especially at a big shop with tons of projects going on.

As for promises, in my book, a promise is a guarantee. If you can't guarantee something don't promise it in the first place. The only thing left to assumption should be if conditions have changed, all promises are off unless otherwise stated by the builder.

Went thru my emails and this is the summary:

03/26/07 engine dropped - Paid $2500
07/23/07 sent email asking for status -- Asked if more money is needed
08/30/07 Sent email asking for status again
09/04/07 - AZRR sent me pics of open engine and what should be done
09/12/07 - Asked status and do they need more funds. Answer was No.
09/14/07 - I said no rush at that point because I'm traveling and fyi that I will have more funds in 3 months
11/27/07 sent me picture of the exhaust manifold, not mine thou. Just selling me one.
11/30/07 decided on the turbo kit
03/07/08 - send note that I have more money ready
04/08/08 - I sent 6K which was 500 more than needed to cover all the parts and labor
05/20/08 picture of the rotor housing cleaned but not assembled, engine started building
05/23/08 block only put together
06/10/08 sent more money to cover fuel mods, polishing and rest
06/30/08 I asked when engine will be done
07/03/08 fuel system completed
07/09/08 AZRR decided to help me with wiring and installing the engine in the car, and told me that engine was basically done.
08/23/08 AZRR not available on the phone and email.
11/14/08 no response
04/09/09 Argument!
04/15/09 picked up the engine
04/25/09 Missing parts from the engine , oil pen leaking.

At this point I stopped dealing with AZRR rockets for awhile... For one year I was trying to finish the install myself , wiring, fuel, intercooler, piping , ECU etc.. lots of reading, failing... learning and struggle. I somehow put it together 9-10 months back and towed it to the dyno shop.. where I found out that my clutch was bad , oilpen was leaking all over the place (payed extra for new oilpen bracket that suppose to avoid this issue). I guess I can live with the oil leak but there was manifold leak as well... nightmare. Called AZRR again told them about issue... no response on the oil leak , just sold me another pressure plate and told me tighten the manifold more. After clutch swap and one run my engine died. You can imagine my frustration. I called AZRR to tell them about this described the problem and they told me to remove the engine and give it to them , looks like it was blown. Well that was another mistake.... months waiting just to check if the engine was really blown or not... Finally after few months they told me engine is ok I can come and pick it up. BTW they did not fix the oil leak! Picked up the engine put it back again and after some troubleshooting found out that my ignition box was bad... Removed the manifold and gave it AZRR to fix it but they told me they will make another for free... I said whatever just give me manifold that works ... I was promised in one month, rest I already said before... I never owned a cent to AZRR, and wanted to have honest and respectful business... that did not happen.

Dhahlen,

If I remember your car was in that same shop for really long time... picking up the dust.
Am I right?

Another interesting thing is that I received lots of messages from other members who personally or someone they know dealt with this shop and had bad experience as well. I guess it makes me feel better that i'm not the only one, but sad that this is happening lot more than I though. I would appreciate if these people instead of messaging me would actually post on this tread their issue with AZRR.

So, at this point, someone is lying to us.....only question is who.

hiboost, I know this is a bit of a mess, but could you forward me those emails with full headers? Check your PMs for address to send them to. Thanks.

Ok boys and girls....I am done trying to defend my self here. This is my last response.

Only thing that needs to be said is I am not lying. This has been a very a very long time and I can remember every detail. I looked back in all my emails and chats with this past customer. The fact is we tried to help him out when ever he asked. The thing he does not point out is every time he needed something we helped out no not on time always, but helped out.

He mentioned that we helped him when he said he popped his engine. He also blamed me for not diagnosing it correctly. He called and said I think i blew my engine. I listened to the issue and what happened and said I dont think you blew it, you need to do a compression test. He said he did not have a way to do that and felt that it needed to come out of the car I said before you do that pull the leading plug one rotor at a time and try and listen to it and see if it has even bumps. He said he did and brought it to us thinking it did not sound even and said go ahead and tear it down. I said hey after spinning it around it felt ok, I did not want to tear it down we needed to comp test it before we went further. He left town, I tried to get it done but had no way to compression test it not being in a car unless i got a bell housing and test it on a stand, so we did. Its had ok cold low rpm compression, yet did not feel 100% about it so I did it three more times and the numbers changed yet it always seemed even. So not having the time to put it in a car I did it one last time on the stand with the conclusion that it was good. He asked for a bill I said no we are good no charge. He came and got it turns out his ignition went bad....So he states in his rant that I missed diagnosed this????????????

Bottom line is when I told him we fixed his manifold and would not be able to build one for him in his time frame he started threatening us " I am going to get some free time and make sure you pay on rx7club".... This guy is trying to hurt us with admitted malice. Over the course of this relationship he has thrown fits threating us etc...Weather or not we made any mistakes i cant help someone that does not want to be reasonable.


I fixed his manifold we decked it, checked it for any issues other than a warped head flange . The manifold is fine I would run it on my car no problem. So he has a properly decked manifold that is very nice and works well. However because i made the mistake of mentioning i was willing to upgrade him for free but it would take a while he wanted it done asap and we did not have time to build a free upgrade in his time frame, he now is living up to his threat and bashings on the forum.

We are not perfect, we do take more time than we should that I will agree with, trying to fix that every day. We deliver good products and good customer service. I said in the beginning we are not perfect but we try and be the best we can be.

As far as the "people" pming this person that are not happy. I have a disgruntled x employee that was let go due to being shady and is now on this forum bashing my name , also clearly ripping people off.


Mirko, sorry you feel this way but it is a two way street........

Was I rude and upset? At one point, one phone call, I admit yes. Why? I think it's clear. Few months later I apologized because I tried to make it work again. We start talking but nothing changed. You knew I needed you to help me finish the car. I could have come here and complain long time ago but I always thought as long as I finish my car I do not care.
I never wanted anything for free, lets be clear on that. Do your thing, I pay, we both happy. I understand you can be busy, but if you expect me to understand you can I expect you to understand me? No car for 4 years now... I remember my car only when people ask me for it...
Now... manifold. You say manifold is fine, would you buy it back?
If its fine why after few hours on dyno start deforming? Why did it need to get flatten out? Why screw pulled out of the flange? What possibly could be my mistake here. Professional tuner tuned it. You tune your cars at this shop all the time. How much confidence I should have after installing this manifold again that will work fine? You said , I quote... "We did not know much back then, now we learned and we build much better manifolds....". You showed me new manifold I said wow that looks much better, can I get one (did not ask for free). You offered for free ready in one month (not asap as you said). I said great, thank you very much. I offered funds if not cover whole manifold but at least a portion so he does not feel short. Then I'm scheduling another tuning session (at least week in advance) and asking you what is the progress... You said if this is gonna be time issue come and pick up your old manifold and lets split ways... Have all the emails and chat conversations to back it up...

Just recently one of my 2jz friends told me that you are selling you RX7 and told him that you are tired of rotary unreliability! RX7 shop owner should not say this IMPO.

I will forward the emails if AZRR gives me permission to do so. I still want to respect privacy of the member.

This is getting a bit ridiculous. :lol:

The fact is that he was giving away a free upgrade, your cost? Time. You have a working manifold now, stick with it. When they have time to make you another, they will. I don't see the problem if your manifold is functioning and ready to go in for another tune.

Is this whole debate over a free item that you did not get? Or the fact that you have to wait for said free item? :scratch:

I would appreciate if you would read entire tread before replying .In order to build a new manifold he needs old one for proper And same dimensions.

Toss him the manifold, have him fab a new one or don't. Either way, I don't see what you're trying to accomplish here?

Could you give me a clear statement on what exactly is it that you want?

Are you just trying to spread your experience? Or is this thread an attempt to motivate Glen / AZRR into curating your free upgrade?

My thoughts are this:

-You paid for a manifold and turbo setup
-It was damaged and then fixed
-You saw new and improved later model manifold
-An upgrade (free was offered with x time frame)
-You're upset that free item was not delivered in x time frame
-You attempt to slander business via threats and posts on this forum
-You want your car now, but you want free upgrade too?

Attempting to make this argument less one sided, I've been in your situation with various rotary shops / builders. Make a decision, stick with it and see it through.

If your goal is to get your car back, then forfeit the free upgrade until you can afford to take it down for x amount of time.

If you goal is to get your manifold as soon as possible, give him your current manifold and wait.

first off, you are very much oversimplifying this, and IMO you are not in a position that allows you to do so. This is not about a manifold.....its about the fact that he is claiming that it took over two years to get his engine back, and when he finally did--after spending nearly $20,000--the work was not complete. Your problem is that this issue has to do with a personal friend of yours--someone that you have been "fortunate to know" for at least the last three years or so. This tells me that you are not the person that should be posting in this thread. Glen and AZRR can speak for themselves, they do not need a friend to do it for them. Not to mention, it only complicates these issues. And I am not going to allow this one to get any more complicated than it already is now.

Where I come from, when someone drops that kind of dough, they are well entitled to get what they paid for, and when it was promised. You are not the buyer or the seller in this case, therefore you have no dog in this hunt.

Second, as far as the manifold goes, when you make something for someone, and that part fails, you should stand by your work. This is not a "free upgrade" issue--it is essentially a warranty issue. Glen made a manifold, and that manifold did not last even past the dyno. It is now upon him to make that right. The whole "we'll get to you when we get to you" bit simply doesnt cut it either. You said it yourself--he was told by Glen that he would get a new manifold in X time.....and when X time had come and gone, Glen did not deliver on his word. And youre actually faulting hiboost over this....like I said, you are not impartial enough to be posting on this.

1--it is not a debate. If you want to turn it into one, you will lose. This is a very unresolved issue where a fellow 7 owner spent a LOT of money and did not get what he was promised. I have seen you around this place enough to know that if the shop owner were not a friend of yours, you wouldnt be jumping on the same bandwagon that you are now.

2--it isnt a "free item". It is a replacement for an item that apparently was not properly made, or was not made from the proper materials. You need to stop trying to make this sound like something it is not. "Free item" suggests that Glen was only offering the part to help someone out---in this case, there is the claim of warranty against this manifold, which completely kills off your "free item" stretch game.

3--Like I said already, you have no dog in this hunt. Glen is a big boy, he certainly can speak for himself. You are not an employee of his shop. You therefore are not in the position to come in this thread and speak against the OP. I do believe I have made myself clear, Marine.

I do not have a goal... Read my tread, understand my frustration and then please ask me a question. Also, read the header of the forum, it says Bad and Fugly business... I read the forum policy very carefully and wrote what I think it might be of interest to other people that are going to have their engine rebuilt or any other work done. As I said I'm not the only one. I understand that you are AZRR friend and want to defend him, but your opinion is biased to me and it is not worth in deciding what is right or wrong. I'm not lying, I have nothing to gain or lose. Even if AZRR gave me new a manifold I would not accept it. I already contacted another local person to build me a new manifold with same dimensions with much better material. But let's not make this about manifold... Nothing that can not be fixed , bought or replaced... It's the idea that I was pushed to the corner of the shop for almost 3 years, forgotten, mistreated and what not.. I hate to be a 5 year old boy who sounds like a 3 year old girl... IMPO if you do not have time to finish the work on time hire another person, stand next to your commitments and promises so we can all trust and rely on you. Everyone who knows me would understand what this project meant to me. People gave me a nick name Mazda, don't even call me out for drinks because they know I'm under the car trying to get it to run. I'm rotary all the way... I could have gone cheaper way but no.. I love the car I loved what is capable of , looks and that is unique being rotary turbo... So excuse me if I complain, I have lots of reasons to.

This is no longer a matter of privacy. AZRR is a forum vendor and I am one of the classifieds/feedback moderators. That makes it my business. I am trying to help you resolve this, and I cannot do so without your participation.

rx7roller02... I sent you all the emails. You seem like a very reasonable person and I'm sure you can make sense out of all this. To be honest I was done with this long time ago. I told what I had to say first day but people kept emailing me so I came back to respond to some of the questions. I do appreciate your time and effort looking over the issue and whatever your final word is I would respect it.

Damn, I just took the time to read every word in this entire thread. All I can say is that I truly hope justice is served here, and I'll just leave it at that. :icon_tup:

hiboost, I can more than understand your frustration, as I've spent quite a bit of money at a reputable rotary shop nearest me. Fortunately, my experiences have been very positive, although I think it's safe to say in this business there can be many unknown variables that come up during a build. You can never predict that, and there has to be some extra time/money set aside for that scenario, as it always occurs. Conversely, I completely agree that the amount of time you spent waiting for your build was completely unacceptable. If a shop is that busy, and ultimately causing customers to wait THAT long, then clearly additional help is needed. But I digress...

In any case, I can very much relate to your story since I had a comparable vision when I got into my FD. Since then the project has taken several routes, parts have failed, a few rebuilds have occurred, time has been lost, and it has been an emotional roller coaster to say the least. That being said, I can empathize with you 100%, and at the very least I hope you get what you deserve. :)

To AZRR, I understand your side of the story here as well. I try to put myself in the shoes of everyone involved, although it is a bit harder to get into yours since I do not run my own shop. I can only speak from the customer standpoint, and because of that I'm biased by default. I can't even imagine the amount of unknowns that occur from working on these cars day in and day out, especially if you have a decent customer base and are juggling things by yourself. Nevertheless, the bottom line is that you have to make customer service and communication a priority. Without service and communication, we have no idea what is going on. And with the economy the way it is today, people even have to wonder if said shop is still in business without a response back from them.

All I'm trying to say is that shops NEED to let their customers know what's going on. The #1 factor which causes businesses to fail is lack of communication. Generally speaking, businesses who provide customer feedback and communicate effectively succeed. Those who do not communicate get labeled as the ones with poor customer support, which should not be taken lightly. That affects everything from past customers to future business.

Nevertheless, I hope hiboost is able to get his project finished as he hoped, and that AZRR continues to be successful. *Hopefully* this experience can be chalked up to miscommunication/poor communication/lack of communication and not poor business ethics. Hopefully...

#1 - What is he missing? The manifold was repaired / fixed, and the OP has yet to take the car back in for a re-tune. I suppose it did not meet the desired time frame, which seems to be the big concern here.

#2 - this supposedly, "not properly made" manifold was corrected, fixed, and given back. Am I wrong here? From what I read, Glen offered the part to help him out, AFTER fixing the current manifold. It was an improved part and from what I read, Glen decided to offer it to him, but continued to fix his current manifold until he had time to fab him up a newer manifold.

Let me use an example. I buy a iphone 3gs, its under warranty for a year. The Iphone 4 comes out, my 3gs, under warranty, shits the bed. Does apple send me a 4? No, they send me a replacement of what I originally bought. If I wanted a 4, they would be doing me a favor. Now, if Apple had provided me with a letter stating that they would give me a 4, but it would require me to be without a phone for X amount of time, then I would make the decision there.

How can Glen make this "new / free / not-free / warranty" manifold if he doesn't have the original manifold to use for mock up? Or, am I mistaken? Did hiboost give him the original manifold to mock up the new manifold and he didn't meet the time frame? Hiboost said it himself, Glen needs the old manifold to make the new one. Was this even given to Glen to do so?

#3 - I have as much dog in this hunt as anyone reading this thread to get an idea of how AZRR conducts business. Glen fixed the manifold, as he stated, correct? At that point, his warranty / repair / service was done. He no longer had any obligation to provide the better model / upgrade / manifold. Seems like people are out to stir up some bad business and try to screw over a reputable business.

The fact is that everyone is out to screw someone over, it's happened to me on this forum, 99% of the time, nobody ever gets both sides of the story, it's all he says she says. Sure, Glen can post for himself, and he may or may not do so.

I think you'll try to make a point by banning me, removing me from this thread, or whatever. It just proves my point that the argument is one sided. I'm defending a friend, my choice. I'm providing my experience with Glen and his shop because I've used his rotary services for years, not as a friend, but as a paying customer and client, who has spent tons of money as well. I've also seen the crap some people try and pull and use the forum as a gimmick to get what they want, like it is some type of leverage.

For the record, I've known Glen much longer than 3 years. I'll keep speaking on his work. You wanted to moderate a forum, you should understand that concerned people are going to post their opinions, experiences, and thoughts on a given situation.

I am not saying I have all the facts nor did Glen ask me to post here. I did not ask Glen for any details on the situation, but I did contact hiboost to get his thoughts on the matter. Where I come from, friends take care of each other; In this case, I am trying to defend a friends name and business, but I guess it takes being a Marine to figure that out.

Also, what was your purpose with this statement? Seems like you're taking a personal stab at Glen. This has nothing to do with your business transaction. Your friend said this? Well, if I am subject to the "friends don't matter" rule that rx7roller02 wants to impose, then this shouldn't matter either, whether or not it was actually ever said :icon_tdow

Your tread:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-rx-7-1993-2002-vehicles-107/near-complete-fully-modded-0-miles-built-1993-rx-7-a-925798/

This is the quote out of your tread

"-Dropped car off at Arizona Rotary Rockets in April 2008
-Car has been in the hands of Glen since then, we've changed ideas, turbos, setups, quite a few times until it was decided to stick with the GT4094R build. Then has done nothing short of build this thing from the ground up."

Does not look like you are in much better shape than I am.

Beautiful car btw...

Would you take your engine to the person that does not believe in the product and what they do. But you are right I should not have include this into this discussion.

Thanks Hiboost.

I hope you're not taking my comments personally, I am not trying to insult you or demean you.

Glen has my car for several reasons

I don't have time restraints, he works on my car as he finds time, I've also told him to put other customers before my car as I rather him knock out their stuff than mine, as I don't have a time restriction. Besides, I change my mind more than any person should ever have to and Glen has been very patient with my changes.

I will note, any time a problem or change has been made, I've received a phone call. Sometimes Glen doesn't like to call and let me know about the bad news, but he does it anyway because he knows I like to hear about it good or bad. Bad news usually being I need to spend more money because something was missing.

Also, I basically handed Glen a shell, handed him a large sum of money, and said take your time. I also had the car back in my garage, and then sent it back in to his shop to do some additional fab work after I decided not to use the headlights.

However, this is not about me and my car. If I was pissed at Glen, he would be the first to know.

I've had long discussions (mostly one sided) about Glen's engine work, he takes pride in his builds. I have seen these engines, first hand, make more power and take more of a beating than the 4 other engines i've had built. I wouldn't ever question his dedication to work or customers.

If you want to know the history of my car, and my experience, I would be happy to give you all the details. But this thread is not the place for it.

Look, this section is for relating one's experiences. That doesnt mean that he is looking for anything more to be done---he is completely free to simply post his experience without you or anyone else hounding him. So I will ask you nicely one last time--get off his nuts. Now.

How was it corrected? It was merely bent back into shape. How strong do you think that metal is now? Think about it--when metal gets heated and bent, then bent again, what do you think happens to that spot? Try using a little thought process on this one.

Oh, and in case you still do not get it, it is not normal for a brand new manifold to fail like this. The fact that it did once already after VERY little use should be a no-brainer to you that a new manifold is what is deserved. Stop acting like Glen was doing this guy some big favor--he was supposed to be standing behind his work. That isnt a favor--it is what a good business SHOULD DO.

wow....just wow....

OK, let me spell this out for you. Apple(Glen) provided a manifold that was faulty. Apple(Glen) then VOLUNTEERED to make the new manifold to make things right. Apple(you guessed it, Glen) said "I will have your new mani in your hands in ____ time." Apple FAILED to live up to his word. How is that the customer's fault? hiboost "made the decision" based upon Glen's word of X time. Then, X time came and went, and Glen's apparent response was "we will get to you when we get to you, your part is a free one so you can wait". Now, get your friendship out of the way here because it is coloring your posts--that is piss-poor business and you know it.

Now, for the absolute last time, stop making excuses for your friend. He made a promise. He chose not to live up to it. That was GLEN'S CHOICE. This is the part where you leave this thread alone from now on.

Glen offers this same exact manifold for sale on his website. Does he need EVERY customer to send in their existing manifold before he can build them? Come on, how about you use a little common sense already. He already knows the dimensions of the part, and if a certain flange would be needed based on turbo choice, then he would know to go with the correct one.

Like hiboost told you, you should have read the whole story before you jumped on someone's sack like you did. Yes, he did give Glen the mani back. Read for yourself--it was in the first post:

so, here he told you he chose to wait the month and left the mani over there. So yes, you are mistaken.....more:

If he never left the mani over there, how could he pick up the manifold and done deal"....? Next time, before you try to speak for your friend, do yourself a favor and don't. You didnt even care enough to bother to find out what actually took place here, and you still charged in.....not the way we do things around these parts.

And yet, youre the only person thats "reading this thread", that has been attacking the OP. I wonder why that is. Note this--I never said you didnt have the right to read the thread. I said that you dont have the right to try to speak for your friend, or to criticize the OP because you were not a part of this transaction--THAT is what I meant when I said you dont have a dog in this hunt. If you need more explanation than that, then I dont know what to tell you.

Clearly he felt himself that more needed to be done, since it was Glen that offered, of his own free will, to make a better manifold for free....I wonder why you havent considered that? Then again, I already addressed this earlier up.

Then why would he feel the need to make the offer? The offer that he failed to honor? THAT IS NOT REPUTABLE BUSINESS--when you offer something and then fail to deliver, THERE IS NOTHING REPUTABLE ABOUT THAT. Can you hear me now?

The point was not whether or not he would do so--it was me telling you as one of the staff of this forum that you WILL NOT CONTINUE TO DO SO. Consider this your final warning.

Um, dude, you agreed to follow the rules of this forum when you joined it. And the rules of this forum clearly state that moderator instructions are to be followed, period. They also clearly state that this is not a democracy--that you are not free to do whatever you please here. If you cannot handle the rules, then seek life elsewhere. NOTHING IN THIS FORUM grants you the right to attack a fellow member because you "choose to defend your friend". Like you said, no one has the whole story--and that includes you. So, stop speaking against the OP and leave this one alone.

um, no, you have NOT done that at all. You have not posted one word in this whole thread about your experience with Glen. I had to look through your posts elsewhere on the forum to see what you have had Glen do business-wise for you. All you have done is attack someone because he said something unflattering about your friend. And before you get on this "not as a friend" crap, you yourself just said you were "choosing to defend a friend".

Providing your experience would have contained nothing about faulting the OP. It would have been you telling us about your transactions with Glen. So, at least be man enough to stop lying to me.....

The guy has already told you that he is having his mani built elsewhere. He is clearly not trying to get anything from Glen at this point---all he did was post his experience! Now, STOP making baseless accusations against hiboost and find another thread to populate

You will follow the rules here AND moderator instructions or you WILL be seeking another forum to hang out on. THAT is what will happen. Get that part right.

So let me get this straight. You freely admitted that you dont have any details from Glen, and yet you STILL tried to call hiboost out as if he is being dishonest? Now youre REALLY beginning to piss me off.....if you cannot see the error you have made there, then you CERTAINLY are not in any position to speak about someone else.

And where I come from, you dont blindly charge in trying to "take care" of a friend without having the first clue what even took place. IF YOU CARE ENOUGH TO GET INVOLVED, THEN YOU CARE ENOUGH TO GET THE CORRECT INFORMATION BEFORE YOU ACT. Damn, what did you do in the Corps? When do Marines EVER act without first getting proper intel? And yet that is exactly what you have done here. Think it over, chief....

Oh, and since you feel the need to talk about what it takes to figure things out, a former SEAL like myself has plenty of experience to get the big picture. but hey, dont let me stop you, you were just educating the rest of us about what it takes a Marine to figure out....good call, jarhead. Typical Marine....leading with your ego. :icon_tup:

Now, let's wrap this steaming turd of yours up. you admit to not knowing anything of Glen's side of the story. You admit that you were not in any way personally involved with this transaction. And at the same time, you have tried to fault hiboost at every turn--speaking against him without even being told anything from your "friend" as to what is true and what is not.

I, on the other hand, have more than two dozen emails that have been forwarded to me. These emails support what hiboost has said here. The time frame is nearly two years for this engine build--a build that wasnt even completed as promised. The guy spent nearly $20,000 with Glen, and the project went WAY over time, over budget, and wasnt even completed to boot. And THEN, when the work is finally done, the mani fails on nothing more than a dyno run. YOU KNOW IF THIS WAS NOT A FRIEND OF YOURS YOU WOULD SEE THIS COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU HAVE INDICATED HERE.

1--do you admit that a shop should stick to a promised timeline whenever possible? What about a budget--unless there is a significant change in the work requested, should the shop's actual bill be nearly DOUBLE the estimate? BE HONEST.

2--if you got a new mani, and it failed on the first use, would you expect that shop to stand by their work? AGAIN, TELL THE TRUTH.

3--if that shop promised to make you a new mani for free, within one month, would you or would you not expect that to be done as promised? AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.......

I am looking at the chat log right now--hiboost merely asked for an update on the manifold progress. Glen said there was no progress yet, but he had to build a couple manifolds the following week. Hiboost asked if his would be done with those, or if those would delay his from being built. This, word for word, was Glen's response:

How in the world is that an acceptable answer when someone is asking you to keep YOUR PROMISE that YOU MADE of your own free will?

Glen has made some statements here too....and the emails I am reading do not match up with his claims. First, he claims that for four months they had no money. I just read an email from that time frame where hiboost asked "do you need more money?", and Glen's answer was "no need for money right now". Glen said that the timeline was not truthful, and that hiboost greatly exaggerated, but the emails confirm that the engine was dropped off March 2007. Glen sent an email to hiboost on 23 May, 2008, saying "your short block is finished, now we have to work on fuel and turbo installation". Think about this now--that is 14 months between engine dropped off and SHORT BLOCK completed. Glen sent an email on 8 July 2008, saying "I will be done by the tenth". Thats July 10, 2008. So, I have to wonder then, why this engine--that was to be completed on July 10, 2008, was not ready for hiboost to pick it up until May 2009?

Is THAT "reputable service"? I think not.

Last word on this post--Glen has been asked to post details. You can see his participation in this thread. Not much. Unlike you, I did not merely charge forward blindly without asking both sides what happened.....let this be a lesson to you. And from now on, limit your responses in these threads to YOUR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, NO MORE.

Are you looking to get banned or something? This has NOTHING to do with friends! It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that you dont have clue one as to what has even happened, and you have spent this whole time criticizing the OP anyways!

GET OUT OF THIS THREAD. YOU HAVE REFUSED TO LISTEN TO WHAT THE STAFF HERE HAVE TOLD YOU. NEXT STOP IS A BAN. I dont want to have to go that way....but if you cant respect the rules of this forum, then you do not need to be here.

WOW....all I can say is that the truth is becoming clearer and clearer by the minute...

;)

I'm jumping in here because this is completely ridiculous.

1. I can pretty much guess who pm'd you. It was Darren. His MO is so transparent its ridiculous. If you have lots of messages, TROT THEM OUT... I can assure you its Darren or one of his cadre of nutswingers trying to use you as a pawn for their AZRR smear campaign and you are too gullible to see it. If you are man enough to send Roller the emails, lets get the PMs out too.


2. I am Glen's friend. Lets get that out now. However I am also smart enough to know that when you run a business and one that deals in the volume that AZRR does, sometimes you get a squeaky wheel. Its just going to happen. Whats funny about this is the shellacking AZRR is getting over ONE UNHAPPY CUSTOMER. Lets drop some Military phraseology here since I happen to still be on active duty. "Takes a whole lot of atta boys to get rid of one OH SHIT". In business, especially in the automotive industry, happy customers generally dont go onto forums to praise business because they are too busy enjoying their new car.

3. So, are we going to categorically dismiss AZRR over one unhappy customer even though given the volume of business he probably has a 99% satisfaction rate? Not even too mention that said customer made it clear he was going to come on here to complain? Its amazing how quickly people on this forum will turn on a business over an isolated incident.

And what truth is that? AZRR had one unhappy customer? Shocking revelation.....

Unhappy customers happen. As long as the business is not making a habit or pattern out of mistreating customers and it truly was an isolated incident... then I see no reason to smear his entire name. However, if the company is unwilling to fix the problem, then its time to send a warning out.

I am not going to side one way or the other, due to not having read the whole thread, nor have I been involved in any way. I just hope to see the end result of this thread is that the business and customer reach an amicable agreement and the whole thing can become water under the bridge.

Notice how I left that alone completely? In case there is any confusion here, allow me to clear it up--my interest in this thread is to get THIS ONE TRANSACTION resolved fully. It is not to bash AZRR over a bunch of nameless complainers. And since no one else has gone that way either, I fail to see how this is such a big point to complain about. As for "trot them out", I disagree. It is one thing for someone to bring out their own conversation. It is another entirely for other people to anonymously complain about a business like this. I agree with what hiboost said--those people themselves need to step up, grow a pair, and go public. If they do not, then we have no reason to worry about their claims.

First off, I dont see anyone giving AZRR a "shellacking". I made it quite clear in my own posts that what took place in this deal is not good business, because it isnt. But I made this equally clear in my posts to Glen:
I didnt knock him in any way....in fact, I asked him all kinds of questions because, just as I stated, I want to get to the bottom of this. It isnt my fault that he doesnt have any answers now that we are getting contradicting information....

Second, this isnt just "one unhappy customer". This is a nearly TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLAR DEAL. The vast majority of people who do business here will never see a deal that involves this much money. And where I sit, this isnt something that can be let off.


Well, for one thing, we do expect forum vendors to be held to a higher standard than others who sell here. The reason for this is simple--we are essentially endorsing them. Next, I did not at any time dismiss AZRR, but the fact does remain that Glen has stopped trying to work this out. Why dont you take yourself out of the perspective of "Glen's friend" and put yourself in the spot of a guy that dropped twenty large, starting in 2007, and now, in 2011, you still cannot even drive your car? You HONESTLY cannot tell me that Glen did not handle this poorly.

After being kept waiting, broken promise after broken promise, and then basically being told to piss off when Glen failed yet again to live up to his word, what the hell do you expect him to do? YOU BET he had the right to complain here. And you know damn well that if this happened to you with a shop, you would have things to say about it too! Once again, you cannot speak accurately about this point because you are speaking as Glen's friend.

Yeah, thats almost as amazing as when friends of someone who did not follow through will ignore even the obvious, and try to defend their friend blindly in a $20,000 deal that still isnt finished after more than three years.....



And what truth is that? AZRR had one unhappy customer? Shocking revelation.....[/QUOTE]

i dont think anyones bashing AZRR , im actually the one who reserected this thread after over 2 months when i noticed glenrx7 didnt follow up on his comment of "will be posting all the details soon" whether he was too busy working on cars or whatever...looking back my response was a bit harsh,it seems like hiboost is a bit reluctant to follow thru with this also which is a bit crazy to me considering 20K+ was spent,i know i would be doing more than blowing off steam..maybe theres a happy medium somewhere so both parties can be satisfied?

That post wasn't even directed at you but you had to get personal? Jesus......

I can defend Glen against any baseless accusations I care too. Namely the alleged PMs that OP has outlining the NUMEROUS offenses against other members.

Jrat you are the same I nicely contacted for help with tunning few years ago and you turned me down saying thay Glen is your best friend and do not want to deal with me for whatever reason... Please leave my tread kindly. I do not want only Glens friends to post here, they could say anything they want to and misslead the whole tread.

What is this? Corrupted government?

This entire thread wasnt directed at you, and that didnt stop you from getting personal yourself. As one of the moderators here, it is much more my business to post in this thread than it is yours. So, just as I said to the last "Glen's friend" to post here, kindly step aside. These threads are not here so that the friends of the shop in question can tee off "in defense of their friend" at will.

No, actually, you cannot. This is not a democracy. You are subject to the decisions of the staff here. And if that is a source of discomfort for you, you are always free to seek another forum to post on. This aint a free-for-all. Another of Glen's friends was asked to stay out of this. He refused. He was then given a final warning before he got the boot. The same now applies to you. If ANYONE is to speak for Glen, it will be Glen himself. If you choose to continue, I'll be happy to show you the door on your way out.

Oh, and as for your big complaint, get real already. The guy dropped 20 grand at your friend's shop and still, over three years later, has yet to get what he paid for....and your one and only concern is bitching about pm's from other people? And ALL in a transaction you had no part in whatsoever....take the hint, already, and let this one be.