RiceRacing System Installed, observations
RiceRacing System Installed, observations
Howard & all:
finally completed my install (I was out of town for 3 weeks). See the link for more photos.
Also,see comments at end of post.
http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/d...g%20H2OAuxInj/
The most difficult part of the install was finding space for the tank (must be under the hood). Purchasing/modding a tank that would fit was tough! As we know, underhood space is at a premium.
RiceRacing recommends : 1) the tank volume is less than 5.5 liters (1.3 gal), 2) for cylindrical tanks, diameter to height ratio of 3/1 (slosh concern), 3) be pressure rated to 3x max boost pressure, 4) be located underhood to minimize delay times (this system is pneumatic, no pumps).
I found a used rectangular 1 gallon drag fuel cell that would fit (barely). I modified this, to fit with the v mount IC, and it's dimensions are 6"x6"x10". It has foam blocks (anti-slosh), so I did not follow the 3/1 cylindrical tank recommendation.
Installed an indicator light, near the boost gauge, that indicates when the solenoid is on (ie water flowing). Also, added a "cobrahead" intake coupling for cold air intake.
Road tuning will begin this week. RiceRacing recommends ignition upgrades, for this system. I may need an HKS twinpower or ? tbd..............
finally completed my install (I was out of town for 3 weeks). See the link for more photos.
Also,see comments at end of post.
http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/d...g%20H2OAuxInj/
The most difficult part of the install was finding space for the tank (must be under the hood). Purchasing/modding a tank that would fit was tough! As we know, underhood space is at a premium.
RiceRacing recommends : 1) the tank volume is less than 5.5 liters (1.3 gal), 2) for cylindrical tanks, diameter to height ratio of 3/1 (slosh concern), 3) be pressure rated to 3x max boost pressure, 4) be located underhood to minimize delay times (this system is pneumatic, no pumps).
I found a used rectangular 1 gallon drag fuel cell that would fit (barely). I modified this, to fit with the v mount IC, and it's dimensions are 6"x6"x10". It has foam blocks (anti-slosh), so I did not follow the 3/1 cylindrical tank recommendation.
Installed an indicator light, near the boost gauge, that indicates when the solenoid is on (ie water flowing). Also, added a "cobrahead" intake coupling for cold air intake.
Road tuning will begin this week. RiceRacing recommends ignition upgrades, for this system. I may need an HKS twinpower or ? tbd..............
Drove it yesterday, with my existing pfc tune (Steve Kan from former owner).
At 12 psi peak boost (to4r), drove fine, no ignition breakup (stock ignition 10 mm wires ngk 105 plugs). 55 degrees F ambient air, good a/f ratios, no knock readings, so retune is not needed.
Next step increase boost to 14 psi, with existing tune. This is my standard setup, for street. If I don't have ignition breakup, I will run the system as is. I'm using this water AI for reliability only. .
Peter at RiceRacing insists that MSD dis2 ho and greddy race plugs are best/needed for high boost (18-24 psi), at his water injection levels. If I decide to tune up to this level, I will need to upgrade the ignition first.
At 12 psi peak boost (to4r), drove fine, no ignition breakup (stock ignition 10 mm wires ngk 105 plugs). 55 degrees F ambient air, good a/f ratios, no knock readings, so retune is not needed.
Next step increase boost to 14 psi, with existing tune. This is my standard setup, for street. If I don't have ignition breakup, I will run the system as is. I'm using this water AI for reliability only. .
Peter at RiceRacing insists that MSD dis2 ho and greddy race plugs are best/needed for high boost (18-24 psi), at his water injection levels. If I decide to tune up to this level, I will need to upgrade the ignition first.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
congrats on getting up and running. we are all very interested in your setup.
i have some of the Greddy plugs which i will be testing in a couple of weeks but generally run the excellent NGK 6725 plugs in 10.5 heat range.
i run and recommend the Jacobs FC3000 amp as it puts out as much if not more juice than the MSD but also has an acceleration/load sensing circuit that goes to full elec output. this is helpful as if you put alot of elec power into your ignition it is busy wiping out your $30 plugs while you are cruising.
Jacobs was bought out and i don't know if the box is offered currently. i suggest you call Chris or Ari at Rotary Performance as they are up to speed on Jacobs. be sure and ask them if the other FC varients include the cruise circuit.
BTW, i really like MSD and run their coils (#8253) on my lead plugs and 8.5 Superconductor wires.
good luck and keep your comments coming.
howard
i have some of the Greddy plugs which i will be testing in a couple of weeks but generally run the excellent NGK 6725 plugs in 10.5 heat range.
i run and recommend the Jacobs FC3000 amp as it puts out as much if not more juice than the MSD but also has an acceleration/load sensing circuit that goes to full elec output. this is helpful as if you put alot of elec power into your ignition it is busy wiping out your $30 plugs while you are cruising.
Jacobs was bought out and i don't know if the box is offered currently. i suggest you call Chris or Ari at Rotary Performance as they are up to speed on Jacobs. be sure and ask them if the other FC varients include the cruise circuit.
BTW, i really like MSD and run their coils (#8253) on my lead plugs and 8.5 Superconductor wires.
good luck and keep your comments coming.
howard
Howard C,
thanks again excellent info/advice (saved a lot of research/time ).
I will call Rotary Performance (excellent vendor).......... I did a quick search and saw the fc 3000 on aus ebay. I see what you mean, the output voltage is similar to the MSD dis2 HO, and the Jacobs accel feature makes sense (not available with MSD as far as I know).
R-R-Rx7,
The RiceRacing system is an engineered solution, to be installed/used pre-turbo only.
thanks again excellent info/advice (saved a lot of research/time ).
I will call Rotary Performance (excellent vendor).......... I did a quick search and saw the fc 3000 on aus ebay. I see what you mean, the output voltage is similar to the MSD dis2 HO, and the Jacobs accel feature makes sense (not available with MSD as far as I know).
R-R-Rx7,
The RiceRacing system is an engineered solution, to be installed/used pre-turbo only.
Darkside FD
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: AZ
I would red loctite the crap out of those screws that hold the injection nozzle to the filter. The last thing you need is one of those coming loose and going through your turbo. Heck, I might loctite them AND safety wire them on the outside. I have seen setups like that send a bolt or nut through the compressor...it is bad news.
If you ran a little smaller intercooler you could run the tank for the W/I in the spot where the stock battery went. I bet that would work with any of the SMICs that retained use of the stock battery (ie. M2 medium, PFS, Greddy SMIC, etc.)
I like the simplicity of the setup. Keep us updated on how it performs.
If you ran a little smaller intercooler you could run the tank for the W/I in the spot where the stock battery went. I bet that would work with any of the SMICs that retained use of the stock battery (ie. M2 medium, PFS, Greddy SMIC, etc.)
I like the simplicity of the setup. Keep us updated on how it performs.
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Looks good. Keep us posted.
I made a similar setup that I've been running. I used a polypropylene tank
which seems to work good.
Where did you connect your pressure source for the tank/atomizing nozzle? I ended up tapping the turbo to get the highest pressure possible, though it probably doesn't have a huge effect on overall flow.
Have you noticed any drop in intake temps with/without the WI?
I made a similar setup that I've been running. I used a polypropylene tank
which seems to work good.
Where did you connect your pressure source for the tank/atomizing nozzle? I ended up tapping the turbo to get the highest pressure possible, though it probably doesn't have a huge effect on overall flow.
Have you noticed any drop in intake temps with/without the WI?
Cosmo: yes, I agree
I used locknuts, and a "double nut", but will use loctite or saftey wire. I considered welding a bung on the metal connector tube (between filter and cobrahead connector) for the nozzle mount. Rice recommends that nothing extends within the intake as well, but I went with the above mounting.
Yes, my tank location is a compromise. If I remove my ps, then that space may be a good location for a tank, something others FDers might want to look at.
RXHEAVEN: thanks........ Peter knows his stuff.
Dudemann: No but Peter has several excellent data logs on RiceRacing's website (part of development). The pressure tap is the brass "t" fitting shown on the top of the ic inlet tube (connects to nozzle and top of tank). The ic inlet tube has a welded 1/8" npt boss for the t fitting.
I used locknuts, and a "double nut", but will use loctite or saftey wire. I considered welding a bung on the metal connector tube (between filter and cobrahead connector) for the nozzle mount. Rice recommends that nothing extends within the intake as well, but I went with the above mounting.
Yes, my tank location is a compromise. If I remove my ps, then that space may be a good location for a tank, something others FDers might want to look at.
RXHEAVEN: thanks........ Peter knows his stuff.
Dudemann: No but Peter has several excellent data logs on RiceRacing's website (part of development). The pressure tap is the brass "t" fitting shown on the top of the ic inlet tube (connects to nozzle and top of tank). The ic inlet tube has a welded 1/8" npt boss for the t fitting.
400Rwhp Seq Twins Baby!!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
From: "Sunny" ol England
Finally somebody willing to share info about the Rice kit! Im planning on running the Rice also and would like a little info 
Any significant differences to AIT?
Lower knock levels?
Any gains in HP?
Loss or Gain in throttle response?
Overall performance before and after??
Any significant differences to AIT?
Lower knock levels?
Any gains in HP?
Loss or Gain in throttle response?
Overall performance before and after??
Rixio Scion:
1. I will run some datalogit files to document intake temperature change.
2.Yes, knock levels are almost zero, at 14 psi, with pump premium. (using a new oem knock sensor, and PFC readout)
3. I may raise boost to 18 psi, from the current 14 psi. On my car, should raise whp from 409 to ~470 whp, reliably.
4. Overall performance before/after? Really no change. As shown above, the big change will come with an increased boost setting, 18 psi. I will need an ignition upgrade first, and retune to do that.
1. I will run some datalogit files to document intake temperature change.
2.Yes, knock levels are almost zero, at 14 psi, with pump premium. (using a new oem knock sensor, and PFC readout)
3. I may raise boost to 18 psi, from the current 14 psi. On my car, should raise whp from 409 to ~470 whp, reliably.
4. Overall performance before/after? Really no change. As shown above, the big change will come with an increased boost setting, 18 psi. I will need an ignition upgrade first, and retune to do that.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,326
Likes: 9
From: Australia - Perth
Also another good read.
http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.p...402&start=1020
Im sure Jase is around this forum to talk about his setup for himself,
But he made 552rwhp with pump fuel and RR Water Injection setup as well.
http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.p...402&start=1020
Im sure Jase is around this forum to talk about his setup for himself,
But he made 552rwhp with pump fuel and RR Water Injection setup as well.
Yeah I noticed he has the same Race Only banner. I'm reading through the thread skipping 5 pages at a time cause its like 50 + pages..
I managed to join the site using my t-mobile email. It's kinda crummy how their site makes you use ISP emails. Not everyone has that. Many people just bum off their neighbors wireless internet...
I managed to join the site using my t-mobile email. It's kinda crummy how their site makes you use ISP emails. Not everyone has that. Many people just bum off their neighbors wireless internet...
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
i read thru most of the thread last night. it is always especially nice to see a genuine developmental thread from near start up as you gain a better sense of the efforts made to achieve a goal. i am delighted the trip ended with a win.
what timing (lead and trail) is Jason running around 8000? i know he had to throttle it back around peak torque due to the dyno.
does Jason have any kind of knock sensor?
howard
what timing (lead and trail) is Jason running around 8000? i know he had to throttle it back around peak torque due to the dyno.
does Jason have any kind of knock sensor?
howard
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: qld aus
i read thru most of the thread last night. it is always especially nice to see a genuine developmental thread from near start up as you gain a better sense of the efforts made to achieve a goal. i am delighted the trip ended with a win.
what timing (lead and trail) is Jason running around 8000? i know he had to throttle it back around peak torque due to the dyno.
does Jason have any kind of knock sensor?
howard
what timing (lead and trail) is Jason running around 8000? i know he had to throttle it back around peak torque due to the dyno.
does Jason have any kind of knock sensor?
howard
i am more than happy to answer any questions u have as everything is done by me and the tune is a rice racing advised tune.
as for timing i run at 20-24psi - 5deg lead timing till 7000rpm,then 6deg upto 8500rpm.this is with a split of 10deg.
no,i dont have a knock sensor,hence my tune is very conservative.
the 550rwhp run is -
5-6deg advance
10.2afr
24psi boost
880deg egt (measured in each runner)
there is mch more in,so much more its not funny but as it is now it spins at over 200kmh,so even at 550rwhp its just a number thats not relevant.i will be going back in a few months and using his new 1200hp dyno so i dont have to pull torque out of the bastard.
then i will work on the transient afrs and timing and also if its proving reliable i will increase another 2-3psi and bring timing back to 5deg total again.this should see a comfortable 575-600rwhp.
Last edited by rotorpsi1; Apr 17, 2009 at 05:15 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: qld aus
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
welcome to the forum. thanks for the info.
wow... 6 degrees lead w a 10 split.
i am dropping my max-motor into my car saturday (tomorrow). it will be interesting to compare our dyno sheets as i run methanol as an injectant and you run water. last year i made 498 at 20 psi but i had stock port timing and was on a very conservative tune. i was also out of wastegate spring. this year i have 23 degrees more intake timing and much superior exhaust ports. the motor is very fresh and i am running NRS one piece ceramic apex seals.
anyway, the point is.. water versus alcohol. i have no agenda other than maxxing out my setup. after doing that i might even try water.
i will be most interested in how the timing lays out water v alcohol. i am running 14 w an 11 split.
i do log digitally both front and rear pre turbo egts. my egts at 8200 were 1550 F preturbo at 11.3 AFR with no knock.
the Rice setup is very neat, having no pump to fail.
consider that you made 4 hp per cubic inch!!!!!!!!!!! on pump gas.
you have to love it.
i should be running sunday and hope to dyno within a week.
again, congratulations and enjoyed your thread. BTW, that has to be crazy in a 2100 pound first gen.
howard
wow... 6 degrees lead w a 10 split.
i am dropping my max-motor into my car saturday (tomorrow). it will be interesting to compare our dyno sheets as i run methanol as an injectant and you run water. last year i made 498 at 20 psi but i had stock port timing and was on a very conservative tune. i was also out of wastegate spring. this year i have 23 degrees more intake timing and much superior exhaust ports. the motor is very fresh and i am running NRS one piece ceramic apex seals.
anyway, the point is.. water versus alcohol. i have no agenda other than maxxing out my setup. after doing that i might even try water.
i will be most interested in how the timing lays out water v alcohol. i am running 14 w an 11 split.
i do log digitally both front and rear pre turbo egts. my egts at 8200 were 1550 F preturbo at 11.3 AFR with no knock.
the Rice setup is very neat, having no pump to fail.
consider that you made 4 hp per cubic inch!!!!!!!!!!! on pump gas.
you have to love it.
i should be running sunday and hope to dyno within a week.
again, congratulations and enjoyed your thread. BTW, that has to be crazy in a 2100 pound first gen.
howard
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: qld aus
welcome to the forum. thanks for the info.
wow... 6 degrees lead w a 10 split.
i am dropping my max-motor into my car saturday (tomorrow). it will be interesting to compare our dyno sheets as i run methanol as an injectant and you run water. last year i made 498 at 20 psi but i had stock port timing and was on a very conservative tune. i was also out of wastegate spring. this year i have 23 degrees more intake timing and much superior exhaust ports. the motor is very fresh and i am running NRS one piece ceramic apex seals.
anyway, the point is.. water versus alcohol. i have no agenda other than maxxing out my setup. after doing that i might even try water.
i will be most interested in how the timing lays out water v alcohol. i am running 14 w an 11 split.
i do log digitally both front and rear pre turbo egts. my egts at 8200 were 1550 F preturbo at 11.3 AFR with no knock.
the Rice setup is very neat, having no pump to fail.
consider that you made 4 hp per cubic inch!!!!!!!!!!! on pump gas.
you have to love it.
i should be running sunday and hope to dyno within a week.
again, congratulations and enjoyed your thread. BTW, that has to be crazy in a 2100 pound first gen.
howard
wow... 6 degrees lead w a 10 split.
i am dropping my max-motor into my car saturday (tomorrow). it will be interesting to compare our dyno sheets as i run methanol as an injectant and you run water. last year i made 498 at 20 psi but i had stock port timing and was on a very conservative tune. i was also out of wastegate spring. this year i have 23 degrees more intake timing and much superior exhaust ports. the motor is very fresh and i am running NRS one piece ceramic apex seals.
anyway, the point is.. water versus alcohol. i have no agenda other than maxxing out my setup. after doing that i might even try water.
i will be most interested in how the timing lays out water v alcohol. i am running 14 w an 11 split.
i do log digitally both front and rear pre turbo egts. my egts at 8200 were 1550 F preturbo at 11.3 AFR with no knock.
the Rice setup is very neat, having no pump to fail.
consider that you made 4 hp per cubic inch!!!!!!!!!!! on pump gas.
you have to love it.
i should be running sunday and hope to dyno within a week.
again, congratulations and enjoyed your thread. BTW, that has to be crazy in a 2100 pound first gen.
howard
my car weighs 1145kg with me in as it drives.and yes,the car is ****** retarded to drive.cant get any grip in any gear so far with drag radials on it on 24psi.
im keen to see what u make on dyno?
i ran same setup as now but stock ported on 24psi and with 12psi backpressure and it would have been around 450rwhp.the port sure helps torque spread and peak power gets out to 7400-7600rpm ,so extra pweor via rpm aswell.
400Rwhp Seq Twins Baby!!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
From: "Sunny" ol England
Rixio Scion:
1. I will run some datalogit files to document intake temperature change.
2.Yes, knock levels are almost zero, at 14 psi, with pump premium. (using a new oem knock sensor, and PFC readout)
3. I may raise boost to 18 psi, from the current 14 psi. On my car, should raise whp from 409 to ~470 whp, reliably.
4. Overall performance before/after? Really no change. As shown above, the big change will come with an increased boost setting, 18 psi. I will need an ignition upgrade first, and retune to do that.
1. I will run some datalogit files to document intake temperature change.
2.Yes, knock levels are almost zero, at 14 psi, with pump premium. (using a new oem knock sensor, and PFC readout)
3. I may raise boost to 18 psi, from the current 14 psi. On my car, should raise whp from 409 to ~470 whp, reliably.
4. Overall performance before/after? Really no change. As shown above, the big change will come with an increased boost setting, 18 psi. I will need an ignition upgrade first, and retune to do that.
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