lzamboni

iTrader: (8)

Hi Richard, I just sent you a PM asking a couple of questions regarding the Aquamist 2d.
And regarding the name of the Summer in England, don't you guys have lots of fog in London? It could be called Fogger
Leo

Richard L

Answered your pm.

London is normally OK in the summer bit in winter, it is foggy. Fogger: Good name!

marco137

iTrader: (1)

ok sort of related, sort of thread hijack, so sorry in advance!
I need to run a second HSV with its own FIA, does anyone know what else i would need- i am presuming that the DDS3 system isnt required, but can i shortthe grey trigger wire to activate the FIA2? looking at the diag, i should be able to splice in another flow sensor to the FIA2, and this should give blocked jet warning- is this correct? so by my reckoning i need HSV,FIA2, flow sensor and associated piping. anything i have missed?

Richard L

Marco,

Can you give me some background as to what system you currently have. This way I can relate to your above post better.

marco137

iTrader: (1)

richard i sent you a couple of emails regarding this, I currently have a HFS5 kit that is in the process of being fitted, but want to drive one HSV from the primaries, and one from the secondaries. as they would be running in parrallel i would need two flow meters, but dont want to go down the complexity (and expense) of running two DDS3 systems.

Richard L

Marco137,

I still think we can achieve this without having to doubel up everything. What about have user adjustable two trip points based on the output from the summer?

Monitoring the fuel % gives a very consistant account of your power level regardless of RPM, boost or gearing.

What do you think?

marco137

iTrader: (1)

Richard,
The problem is that I want to inject preturbo whilst running sequential. As such the control of the HSVs has to be separate- yet still tied into the amount of fuel. in effect what I am looking to do is have X% fuel/water ratio, but below a certain threshold have all the water being controlled by one hsv, and above the threshold have the amount of water split, and be controlled by the second. For example if we assume 3500rpm,

Below 3500 rpm 15% (of fuel) water through HSV1
Above 3500 rpm, 7.5% water through HSV1, and 7.5% through HSV2.

So unless the summer could split the duty cycle like this, I can’t see how it would work. The ideal solution would be to have a controller that could run two independent PWM maps simultaneously; I don’t think yours can do that can it?

Which is why I was thinking of using the primary and secondary injectors- the total amount of fuel is controlled by the ecu, and above a set duty cycle on the primaries, the secondaries kick in. so I have the separation of duty cycles that I need! However it will need a lot of fettling with regard to injector sizes (both fuel and water) and getting the switch over point right, but I still think it is a viable solution


marco

blitzboy

careful Marco I think you are trying to over complicate your proposed setup, do one or the other (pre or post turbo)
Also at 3500rpm I think its too early to inject personally, what turbo do you run and what porting?

marco137

iTrader: (1)

mate will throw you a pm over on MRC!

efiniste

Richard,

A quick question. I'm taking my car in for mapping this weekend and could do with setting up logging on the Summer beforehand. What are the parameters I need for 0v and 5v to get the correct readings from the water flow sensor?

thanks,

Steve

Richard L

If the overall deliver is more or less tagged to the fuel %, it might be easier to just add a MSV (Medium Speed Valve, costing less than a quarter of the price of an HSV), your set up will be a lot cost effective.

All you need to do is select a suitable point to open up those valves to perform the pre-turbo work.

Those valve will be fed from the outlet of the HSV. The HSV can deliver over 1500cc/min.

Next step will be We finding an appropriate signal to trigger those MSVs. I can help you fabricating a controller when necessary. Monitoring the primiary or secondary wastergate control valves signal or just the onset of the primiary and secondary fuel injectors (user adjustable of course).

Richard L

Please use 0-5V input for all logging parameters.

efiniste

Thanks Richard, that's what I'm using. I need to know what 5v equals in cc though. When powered up I'm reading 0.5v with no flow so can put that in on my logger: 0.5v = 0cc
I then need to add 5v = ?cc
From memory the label on the flow sensor reads 4.5v = 420cc but the Shurflo pump flows more than that easily so I'm assuming that's an out of date spec?

Steve

marco137

iTrader: (1)

Richard,
forgive me if I got the wrong end of the stick, but I was under the impression that the amount of water discharged was dependant on the nozzles used? so if I have a secondary valve then when it opens it will increase the total flow rate, and so the water/fuel ratio will be thrown? Or can the flow be choked upstream of the nozzles so that total flow is maintained regardless of the number of nozzles downstream? And if this is the case would the switching in of a seocnd nozzle reduce the pressure in the line and impair the atomization?
What cost am i going to be looking at for a HSV and an FIA(or summer) set up? i had guessed it would be below £200, which in my mind is a fair price. I think by the time i have put in a MSV and built control logic for it (and accounting for my time) it will come to something similar! I think it would be better if we continued this over a phonecall, do you have a number I can use to contact you?

Richard L

The answer is 5V = ?cc/min is dependant on the "scaling" potentiometer (SC).

The flow sensor's output is 0.5V to 4.5V. Flow detection range is between 100-2000cc/min.

Due to the wide operating range, we introduced a "scaling" input so that the sensor can be retained the same 0-5V output at a smaller flow.

Your gauge has this scaling potentiometer called "SC". I am certain you have already calibrated this for your failsafe window agaibst your current flwo range. I advise you to leave this alone.

As regarding setting your 0-5V logging multiplier, it will depend on your current maximum fluid flow through your jet under boost. Let say you are using a 500cc/min jet, displaying 5 bars on the gauge.


Since full 8 bars displayed on the gauge is equvalent to 4.5V. So 5 bars = 2.8v or 500cc/min.

Based on above example, your logger mulituplier should be set to: 178.57cc/Volt.

Richard L

Marco,

My phone number is 01273 581007

Richard

Richard L

You are absolutely correct, although the HFS-5 mirrors the fuel injector, throwing in an extra nozzle midway will alter that ratio for sure.

The HFS-5 pump can maintain 125psi of water pressure in excess of 2000cc/minute. So you don't have to worry about the pressure drop until you are running multiple jets, totalling beyond of 2000cc/min.

I guess the only way to achieve a fixed water/fuel ratio is using two HFS-5 and two summers. We can discuss this over the phone. By then I might be able to figure out an alternative method costing less.

I should be in the office tomorrow, If not you will gaive you an alternative phone where you can reach me on.

Richard

efiniste

Ah, I didn't realise the SC pot affected it. Makes sense now, thanks Richard.

Richard L

If possible please email me the logged chart or post them here.

I have not yet seen any chart since the Summer was released. Don't forget to insert the restrictor so that the flow will be linear to the IDC.

Here is a chart to help you matching the jet to the restrictor.

money

iTrader: (2)

richard... i have send you an email .. so please repond back.. cause i think there is a part that missing in my packet.

Richard L

Money, which part is missing?

I have a question, who is Money?

efiniste

I'll post a chart up Richard but I have some faults to sort out first. I'm getting (what I assume to be) noise on the readings from the flow sensor. I think it's noise as the trace is slightly erratic even when there's no water flowing. Consequently the flow trace isn't much use as it's all over the place. I'll do some checking of the wiring and earths to see if I can find the cause.

Steve

Richard L

If the logging device can share the same ground/earth as the Summer, it will eliminate most noises.

Marcel Burkett

Richard , U got mail.

efiniste

Everything (Summer, ECU, Logger, ) is earthed to the same point, hence my confusion. I'll do some checking this weekend.