AEM methanol kit thoughts
 

Hi Gang,

I'm thinking of picking up this AEM water injection kit (link) and this filter ( ) to go with it.

I'm looking for extra insurance (not to tune to the water) when running 12-13lbs on stock twins and then eventually about 16 on BNRs. I doubt that I'll ever go past the BNRs. Shoot, it'll be a while before I go past the stock twins.

After some looking around, the above kit seems to be the best bang for my buck. It's a step above a cheap on/off boost switch equipped model but doesn't have all of the fancy software gauges, logging and other things that I just don't think that I'll make good use of ... just an injection curve that's based on boost pressure.

Is there anything else that I should consider? Functionality, best place to purchase, use the search function :lol: or ???

thanks all,

James

I think the premium that aquamist has is worth it. I always recommend going with an HFS + rx7 summer. Injecting meth based on injection duty rocks and the flow gauge is awesome. My intake charge is in the mid to high teens on incredibly hot days when I boost and this is with my constantly heat soaking tiny greddy/trust SMIC in slow to moderate traffic. I just need a small patch of road to put enough load to set off the water injection without boosting and my temps are back down to the 10s. It's probably the only mod I've done that makes me feel safe driving my car in any situation.

Beautiful cal Supernaut.

I had an Aquamist 1s in my fist FD ... good stuff.

The system that you're using is a bit rich for my budget at $700ish.

Injector duty is a great feature. I could see this being a great supplemental fuel system. Never say never, I may just have the need for that one day.

I have the kit, I would buy something different. I have had problems with the progressive controller, its also hard to read and set the start boost and full boost settings. The bad controller led to damage to my turbo compressor wheel, it was setup pre turbo and spraying for a second or two every time the key is turned on or off, so I hooked up a boost activated switch to bandaid that problem. And the built in check valve had a oring problem and that caused water to be sucked into the engine under vacuum and the ic accumulated a spuddle of water which was then forced into the engine and then my engine was down on power and compression a little. But the kit did allow me to achieve good numbers for a little while on pump gas.

I have the 30-3002 kit with no tank and its worked well for me. I use the medium nozzle (315cc I think) with water only on a 35r at around 16psi. I use the stock front washer tank and one track session goes thru about 1/2 the tank. The issues tom94RX-7 mentions isnt good tho, I will be checking my kit to ensure everything is well.

If you're just using it for added security then I think its a good kit. That was my main purpose when i bought the aem one. However, if you decide to change that in the future (which I suspect you will) you will probably need a different kit. I suggest just getting an aquamist right from the get go for just a few hundred bucks more.

i've installed a number of the AEM progressive kits and haven't heard any issues with them, i also used to recommend the Devil's own as an alternative but after one controller blew up when first powering up the pump i was a little disappointed(this was after they changed the pump controller and run no fuses now).

Allrotor93 has an Aquamist DDS3 with an FIA2 kit available for sale right now. It's a slightly used unit but comes with new hoses and nozzles. Sized for a 20B so it would work for you.

Good feedback.

Not 100% what I wanted to hear tom94RX-7, but I'm glad that you said it. How long did you have the kit when you noticed the trouble?

DriftDreamzSS, let us know what you find and drop me a line if the FD makes it down near Chatsworth.

Thanks Karack ... considering the amount of work that you've done and that you have to deal with problems later your input means a lot.

Damn it Mitchocalypse and David ... I'm PMing Allrotor93 now ... you really want me to buy the Aquamist, don't you. :-)

James, we have installed many of the AEM kits and no issues with them. For the money they work well. You might consider getting the one without the tank and using the window washer tank in the car. Makes it a lot easier than finding a spot for the AEM tank.

Jason

Just my luck then haha. Very little use before I had problems with the controller. When I told the aem techs about it they said they never heard of that problem.

more to think about ...
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/water-me...n-systems.html

Can you provide more information / direct me to a guide to using the AEM kit with the window washer tank? Love the idea of OEM look. :icon_tup:

Also, not the rear tank unless it's Euro spec. I used to use the rear tank for my kit. I'd run out of juice very quickly.

We mount the pump at the bottom of the tank, on the frame of the car. As I recall there is already a nipple on the bottom of the tank that you can run to the pump. Then go from the pump up to the elbow or intercooler pipe.

typically i find an old mitsubishi with a slanted washer reservoir in the wreckers that fits the storage bins without much modification. i like the stock washer reservoir idea but it sits quite low in the car and to me it seems it has to be topped off early to prevent pump starvation.

made a decision
 

Hi team Rx7,

I surprised myself and picked up a used Aquamist DDS3 with an FIA2 kit today. It might have come from someone who posted on this thread. :cool:

Here's what changed my mind:

1) The PWM vs variable pump atomisation. Check the link that I posted earlier in this thread.

2) Basing the flow rate on the maps that I set in my PFC rather than boost. Admittedly the install will be a little more complex but this should produce predictable results very effortlessly. If I change my PFC map, the Aquamist will follow suit.

3) A very good deal both in $$$ and an customer service.

I think that you may have just called it Mitchocalypse. I'll probably feel comfortable enough to tune to it a bit given the feature set (failsafe) of the Aquamist. Well, that'll happen a bit later but it's a great option.

I'll post back some general impressions once I've installed and used the kit for a bit.

peace,

James



Here's a couple of videos that sold me on the improvment that PWM gives over motor speed control:

kit installed, part 1
 

Hi all,

Thought that I would share my experience installing a used Aquamist HFS5.

First, thanks to David Hayes. My wholehearted recommendation to him as a seller.

Here’s what I purchased in a picture. Here’s the manual for those interested in the details.

If you’ve read this thread all the way through, you know that I started out with an AEM kit in mind. I believe that this kit would have required less that 50% of the effort that that Aquamist kit did. This is true mainly because the AEM kit is less complex. It's controlled only by boost, doesn’t display flow or have any safety (boost cut) features. There’s just a lot less to hook up.

Total install time was about 16 hours, not including a lot of online reading, shopping for parts, reading the factory wiring diagram and looking the car over to help decide where it was all going to be installed. Dale Clark’s water / meth thread was a huge help with both fitment as well as planning for a clean, quality install.

More soon … I’m off to spend some time with my other half.

James

Glad to have helped James. Your knowledge and patience is what won the day though :)

The kit I sent to James was not complete and we worked together to make it right. Happy it is all working out. James is a great guy and a knowledgable rotary head.

kit installed, part 2
 

Hi all,

Thanks David!

A few observations:

1) My car, not unlike most FDs with the typical bolt on mods, occasionally pops when getting on and off of the gas. You know the usual mild FD backfires that are the norm after a downpipe and cat back. Anyway, the water injection seems to eliminate 80% of these. Quite a nice side effect.

2) The car's wideband is logging AFR's that are in the neighborhood of 1 AFR richer (under full boost) than before the H2O injection. I'm only running distilled water at this point so it's not extra fuel from the injection system. The intake temps aren't any different that several cold morning runs that I've done recently. I need to look my logs over and think about it. At first glance, the PFC seems to have pushed the duty cycle from 80% to 85% so there's definitely extra fuel.

3) It's obvious to the old time AI / WI fans but the intake temps drop fairly quickly to 45C during extended boost runs. Even a short run will bring it from 60C to 50. Nice, just the like the Aquamist 1S system that I used to have. Nice, I seem to have the equivalent of an FMIC.

OK ... more about the install in a bit.

James

For those interested, AEM sells a failsafe kit, but good on you for buying the HFS-5. You can find the HFS-3s for $400 up and the HFS-6s for $500 up used.

That is interesting as you are only injecting water. Is the PFC somehow compensating for the H2O?

My AFRs actually went in the opposite direction with a 50/50 mix. After the install, AFRs went leaner according to the wideband and were up about 1 point into the low 12s on WOT. This really freaked me out and I never got a clear answer on why this happened. The general consensus was the wideband was calibrated to gas and the meth mix registered differently but I am not sure about this.

We retuned the car and now see 11.2 at WOT with the meth mix.

James,

assuming the IAT sensor is downstream from your AI injection point my guess is the IAT correction table is reading colder temps and enrichening your mixture...

howard

David figure out if your wideband reports a lamba corrected to 14.7, or if it actually reports the A/F, or just switch it to lambda because it's the easiest way to tune for two fluids with different stoichs

Well, it's the PLX wideband:

Wideband AFR, Air/Fuel Ratio, UEGO, Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor, Wideband Oxygen Sensor Control Kit - PLX Devices Inc - USA

Does both AFR and lamba but outside of that, I'm pretty clueless with the "stoichs" issue.

I think that you're dead on. I have a Triumph sensor in the stock location. I'm also adjusted the air temp vs. fuel table in the PFC to accommodate this. I think that I need to work on it a bit more. I started reading my tuning notes and I did some recent tuning when the air temps were a bit warmer out. I normally tune on the same run to work every morning ... when it's cooler. Bottom line, I suspect that the PFC is pulling too much fuel when it's warmer. If I tune when it's warmer there's too much fuel when it's cooler.

I'll verify this and if correct add a bit of fuel in the higher temp portion of the air temp vs. fuel table.

For now I've gone back to a tune that I had just before I moved from the stock SMIC to an SR Motorsports SMIC. Like magic the AFRs are back to normal. Well, they're a bit lean but between a conservative tune and WI I'm not too worried. I'll continue my slow and methodical approach until I have it corrected.

kit installed, part 3
 

OK, so the kit was used and needed a bit of love to complete it. I picked up a welding bung for the injector, water tank adapter + tubing connector, some weather pack connectors, a fuse holder for the pump, another for the junction box, and lastly a relay for the pump. Hmm ... I also made a few trips to Lowes for stainless steel hardware (pump mounting), tie downs for the tubing and rubber pump mounts.

Add to this some spare fuses, cat 5 Ethernet wire (for the low current stuff), a bit of 18 gauge cord to drive the water solenoid, wiring loom and some heat shrink tubing.

I decided to stick with the included 1mm jet for now ... after reading this. I have a 180psi pump so 1mm is a bit too much water, probably spot on when I start running 50/50 meth / water and then a bit too small when i move from 550/850 pri/sec to 550/1300 pri/sec. I'll deal with that last piece when I get there though.

Why post all of this? I think that far too many people dive into a project without thinking it through. Even with a brand new kit there are likely to be parts that are needed. Take your time, read, research and plan.

I'll add some picks of the system soon as well as walk through the install a bit. I'm planning on keeping it high level wit a few tangents ... unless someone starts to ask about specifics.

Excellent start to the write up James. This will help a lot of other guys. The links are really nice also.

kit installed, part 4
 

Hi all,

Here's a few more details, via pictures ... but first, check out Dale Clark’s water / meth thread. I'm not going to go crazy with each bit as this thread covers most of it.

First up, here's the system sitting on my battery tray. The battery is in the passenger bin. The 18 gauge wire is used to drive the high speed solenoid as it draws about an amp and pulses rapidly. I'm sure that smaller wire would work ... goggle for wire size vs voltage drop ... this is what I have in my garage. Yep, fuse is spelled with an "s" and not a "z".

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1342760797

Next, here's the nylon tie down that I used to hold the water tubing down. Notice that I locked the screws down by tightening a wing nut into a regular nut. I did this as I couldn't tighten down the nylon straps very much and didn't want them to vibrate loose. The same could be said for the nuts holding the pump. These are nylon lock nuts. There are rubber plumbing washers under these nuts to isolate the pump's vibration. Since these cant be squeezed much, I'm relying on the nylon lock nuts to prevent it from coming loose. Last note, all of the hardware is stainless. This might be overkill but I like knowing that the install won't rust.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1342761482

Here's a look at the injector in it's bung. I used Alumiweld to attach it.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1342761610

Here's the wire loom diving into my drivers side fender well. There's an unused rubber plug just below this entry point. The plug leads to the drivers foot-well, just above the fuse block. This is where I installed the control box that drives the whole setup. While I had the fender liner off I pulled the windshield washer tank, removed the pump, installed the Aquamist water tank adapter in it's place and lastly installed the water sensor per Dale Clark's instruction.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1342761940

Here's a weather pack connector (un-assembled), Ethernet (cat 5) cord with the ends cut off, wiring loom and lamp cord (18 gauge).

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1342762132

I'm not showing the water tank as I didn't snap a pic before installing it ... check Dale's thread for that. The only thing that I did differently was to draw the water via the washer pump's mounting hole. Also, I haven't shown the connections to the fuel injection system. I'll post this soon.

Nice work James. Interesting place to install the pump - don't think I've ever seen anyone use that location but it is close to the water/meth source so should be ideal.

The kit definitely went to the right person :)

kit installed, part 5
 

Thanks David!

So, I wanted to point out to the group where I had taped the secondary injectors to feed the FIA2 and then where I had spliced the Aquamist's junction box's boost control relay into the wiring for the RX7's waste-gate control solenoid but my HSV died, my work week was crazy, I went on vacation, --- list next ecuse here --- :lol:

OK, next time. This time, replacing a dead HSV (Aquamist's high speed valve) and first impressions of 50/50 water / meth (Boost Juice).

So, I'm happily boosting along, working my way through a few gallons of distilled water and adjusting the flow gauge scale and safety cuts when the gauge shows no flow under boost. :(

I went through the system, piece by piece, checking fuses, bypassing the pump relay to test it, etc. The HSV seemed to be frozen but the coil passed electricity. After a bit of Googleing I found a confirmed that this was a common issue and that this (link) is the replacement.

The new valve appears to be an improved version of the old one in the sense that the coil is much larger and external. I'm guessing that Aquamist beefed it up a bit to prevent failure. Anyway, here are some pics: (the old valve is on my workbench and the new is installed ... just in case it isn't obvious)

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1343451990https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1343451990

So, about the boost juice (50/50 meth and water). Wow ... temp drops like a rock under boost. After boosting the hard pipe before the inter-cooler is too hot to touch. The pipe after the water / meth injection is maybe tepid! This UIM is also only warm! The engine seems to love this. The hot engine (200f) has the same pull as it does just after thermostat opening (180F). Good stuff!:icon_tup:

I'm now working my way through the fuel map in the PFC and slowly pulling fuel to bring the AFR's into check. They were approaching 10 in places that should have only been 11.87 ... conservatively. I'm so happy that I picked up a system that atomizes well and has a fail safe (the junction box's boost control). I wouldn't have been comfortable pulling fuel from the map without both of these.

I may even have enough injector duty left when I'm done to move from 10psi to 12. My stock (cleaned) injectors, intake, DP and cat back had opened the car up so much that I was already hitting an 85% duty cycle at 10 PSI.

Oh, and David ... don't even think about refunding money for the HSV. You've been more than fair so far. I tested the spare FIA2 that you gave me. It works great. I'll sell this and call it a day!

You read my mind James :) Glad to see it is all working out. Your thread is a great primer for those that want to install water injection.

Keep up the posts.

Im a little late to this but have installed probably 6-8 of the AEM kits with only one small issue. They have been great for me and I run one on my personal FD.

I see you went another direction and im sure you will be happy.

For those reading and who have a touring edition car I found a great way to hide the whole setup which is utilize the rear windshield wiper tank and mount the pump below the tank in the spare tire area. The one down side to this is that the tank doesnt hold that much liquid but the entire setup is hidden and done very clean. Some would prefer the tank/pump be closer to the injector but for the guys with nice street cars that want a clean setup it works great.

I have a one year old aem progressive kit i will be selling that I just pulled from my car that I'm parting out.. Seemed like a good system

amazing