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I don’t get how that makes sense. Even if you are running more alcohol fuel into the engine, hence more premix too, that’s also more alcohol fuel solvent working to wash away premix oil in addition to the fuel dryness characteristic. So my feeling has always been the premix needs to be heavier with alcohol fuel, but I’m still another month or two out from starting to collect my own data on it.
I emailed Redline with a few premix questions today. Their response:
"Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, our products including the Two Stroke Alcohol Premix don't have a shelf life.
It is still available, we don't currently list it on our site but can be ordered by calling the office, 800-624-7958.
In a rotary engine using alcohol a mix of about 5/8 to ¾ ounce per gallon should be sufficient.
When mixing with gas in a rotary engine the Two Stroke Race Oil is used about 1 ounce per gallon."
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
I don’t get how that makes sense. Even if you are running more alcohol fuel into the engine, hence more premix too, that’s also more alcohol fuel solvent working to wash away premix oil in addition to the fuel dryness characteristic. So my feeling has always been the premix needs to be heavier with alcohol fuel, but I’m still another month or two out from starting to collect my own data on it.
I agree. No way does that make sense for alcohol (methanol). I called as well just to see what they'd say and it was very concerning to hear their reasoning. They are under the impression that methanol has lubricating properties similar to gasoline and because the fuel volume/requirement for methanol is so much higher than for gas that you need less premix oil per gallon of methanol. 100% incorrect.
It's obviously widely accepted and understood that alcohol/methanol has zero lubricating properties and in fact acts as a solvent and is highly corrosive.
We stand by Red Line Two-Cycle Alcohol Premix for E85/E98/Methanol. We premix 3 oz of Redline to 1 gallon of methanol plus 1 oz VP Racing M2 Top Lube to 5 gallons methanol, and 2 to 2.5 oz of Redline to 1 gallon Race E85 with no Top Lube.
Yes it smokes a little.
And just to be clear, we're running a FuelTech FTSPARK-4 CDI and have zero issues with fouling or build-up on the plugs.
When we were running an inductive ignition with IGN-1A coils at 2 oz to 1 gallon of E85 the plugs would have some build-up. Hope this helps!
IG: https://www.instagram.com/landspeedrx8/
I’m surprised there hasn’t been more activity on this newer option. Was hoping there might be more feedback on it by now, other than the usual merchandizer types I’m not so quick to trust, coupled with the “G” word marketing schtick:
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Bio-Rotary Racing Premix is designed specifically for rotary engines. This technology addresses the three major concerns in the rotary community: (1.) proper lubrication, (2.) issues with carbon buildup, and (3.) premix compatibility with any type of fuel. It also protects against corrosion in fuel systems, and has a fuel conditioner built into the product. Renewable Lubricants offers the only sustainable, carbon negative, (green) premix designed for high performance rotary engines.
PROVEN BENEFITS
Longer trouble-free engine life
Lowers emissions (burns clean) and improves fuel economy
Best in class apex seal lubrication
No exhaust smell
Reduces and cleans carbon deposits
Lubricates entire rotor and housing
Sustainable, carbon negative formulation
Helps keep spark plugs clean and increase plug life
Compatible with ALL fuel types (Gasoline, Ethanol Blends, and Methanol)
I’m surprised there hasn’t been more activity on this newer option. Was hoping there might be more feedback on it by now, other than the usual merchandizer types I’m not so quick to trust, coupled with the “G” word marketing schtick:
.
Bio-Rotary Racing Premix is designed specifically for rotary engines. This technology addresses the three major concerns in the rotary community: (1.) proper lubrication, (2.) issues with carbon buildup, and (3.) premix compatibility with any type of fuel. It also protects against corrosion in fuel systems, and has a fuel conditioner built into the product. Renewable Lubricants offers the only sustainable, carbon negative, (green) premix designed for high performance rotary engines.
PROVEN BENEFITS
Longer trouble-free engine life
Lowers emissions (burns clean) and improves fuel economy
Best in class apex seal lubrication
No exhaust smell
Reduces and cleans carbon deposits
Lubricates entire rotor and housing
Sustainable, carbon negative formulation
Helps keep spark plugs clean and increase plug life
Compatible with ALL fuel types (Gasoline, Ethanol Blends, and Methanol)
.
I've been using it now for over a year at their recommended ratio. I opened my motor around December of 2022 and noticed no build up or any other issues. So far, so good.
wow, at the 1/2 oz per Gallon ratio? With what apex seals and what fuel?
I meant to mention that the recommended mix rates were lower and I had some concerns on that as well:
TREAT RATES
Use 1 oz. of premix to 2 gal. of fuel for alcohol fuels (High Ethanol Blends or Methanol), for track use or spirited driving with modified and boosted motors
Use 1oz. of Premix 4 gal. for regular fuel (Gasoline), for daily drivers that are non-modified, N.A. motors.
I've been using it now for over a year at their recommended ratio. I opened my motor around December of 2022 and noticed no build up or any other issues. So far, so good.
Assuming by your signature that you are on E85. Is your OMP removed? What seals are you using?
I've been using it now for over a year at their recommended ratio. I opened my motor around December of 2022 and noticed no build up or any other issues. So far, so good.
I too have been using renewable lubricants. Running 1oz per gallon with NO OMP. About 4000 miles so far strictly Ethanol from Thornton's gas stations. OEM seals on an 80,000 mile 6 port engine with stock ports running E85 at 12psi.
wow, at the 1/2 oz per Gallon ratio? With what apex seals and what fuel?
I meant to mention that the recommended mix rates were lower and I had some concerns on that as well:
According to the MSDS it has a higher lubricity then other leading brands. Hence the ability to run a lower amount per gallon. I am still running 1oz per gallon in my street car making just under 300whp with e85.
I'm also using Bio-Rotary Racing Premix. Nothing bad to say about the product. Besides all the advertised benefits, being able to use one pre mix for pump and E85 is nice! I do plan on using 2 Oz per gallon when on E85 though.
I'm also using Bio-Rotary Racing Premix. Nothing bad to say about the product. Besides all the advertised benefits, being able to use one pre mix for pump and E85 is nice! I do plan on using 2 Oz per gallon when on E85 though.
2oz is the ratio the claim to use in their drift program and 4x their recommendation for street duty cars. Any reason why you're going so high? I was running 2oz/gal when I was using super techniplate.
2oz is the ratio the claim to use in their drift program and 4x their recommendation for street duty cars. Any reason why you're going so high? I was running 2oz/gal when I was using super techniplate.
I've warped apex seals in two previous engines. Not to say it was a premix problem but I now have trust issues... I know 2 Oz per gallon on E will not hurt anything and I would rather have more lubrication than too little. I'm sure I'm being overly cautious.
there have been numerous tests or situations running over 4 oz./gal on race engines with regular premix
so 2 oz. is within that window relatively speaking, Al Gore might fly over in his private jet to give you a climate change lecture though 🤣
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Off topic from a performance standpoint... I ran 2oz / gal the other day on the dyno and the Renewable premix smells fantastic with Ethanol. I was always a fan of Klotz Techniplates aroma but I think Renewables burns cleaner. Cost is premium however...
Off topic from a performance standpoint... I ran 2oz / gal the other day on the dyno and the Renewable premix smells fantastic with Ethanol. I was always a fan of Klotz Techniplates aroma but I think Renewables burns cleaner. Cost is premium however...
-M
The cost is the main reason I was attracted to their ratio! Curious on hearing more results because if others are having issues at the recommended, I may as well shift back to super techniplate if the ratio isn't working.
I think you may have misinterpreted what he was saying.
It’s been proven to be acceptable to run higher for racing; higher engine duty loads, slight improvements in power/rotor sealing, no concern for smoke out the tailpipe within reason. I want to say that Racing Beat ran even higher ratios on their Bonneville FD3 car.
On the street you shouldn’t need to run that high. He’s just choosing to do so on his own.
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I think you may have misinterpreted what he was saying.
It’s been proven to be acceptable to run higher for racing; higher engine duty loads, slight improvements in power/rotor sealing, no concern for smoke out the tailpipe within reason. I want to say that Racing Beat ran even higher ratios on their Bonneville FD3 car.
On the street you shouldn’t need to run that high. He’s just choosing to do so on his own.
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Fully understood now. I do up the ratio for the dyno but I was under the impression it was being noted for all uses. Thanks for the clarification!
04-08-20, 07:48 PM
100% incorrect.
