crispeed

Ford Mustang at 30 psi on E-85.

Turbomustangs.com along with Steve Cole Enterprises Inc (username: Karl Hungus) has completed some preliminary testing with the environmentally friendly, cheaper than 91 Octane, E85 fuel blend.
First off what is E85? E85, is a motor fuel blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline to be used in flex-fuel vehicles. Ethanol is alcohol used in transportation fuels. It is a high-octane, liquid fuel, produced by the fermentation of plant sugars. In
the United States, ethanol is typically produced from corn and other grain products, although in the future it may be economically produced from other biomass resources.

Benefits:
It has a motor octane rating of 104-108, it is also quite cold to the touch. It is currently about 1.99 per gallon, while 91 Octane is approximately 3.30 a gallon. E85 is cleaner burning, emitting a lot less greenhouse gasses. It is also a renewable resource. To top it off it is made 100% within the confines of the USA.

Cons:
It takes more of this fuel to create the same energy as regular gasoline. Therefore your car will use more fuel and you will see a decrease of approximately 10-15% in fuel economy. To make big horsepower you will need more fuel pump and more injector. Many people state that the fuel is corrosive and it could have adverse effects on aluminum fuel rails, injector o-rings and fuel lines. But so far in 9 months of testing we have seen no such side effects.

Test Car
1995 Mustang GT street car, 331 cubic inch, custom twin turbo system with twin T70 p-trims w/ .58 AR, T56 tranny, solid roller: 242/236, .600 lift.
Fuel System: 3, 255lph Walbro in line fuel pumps, 160# injectors.
No alky, no nitrous, no ice on the intake, etc.

The first thing we did was add 40% fuel to the fuel map under WOT. We also added about 20% fuel in part throttle areas. We were tuning using a regular gasoline wideband air fuel ratio of 14:1 at part throttle. On the dyno the car made the best and cleanest power at 12:1.

At 6 psi of boost and 35 degrees total timing the car made 575rwhp from 6000rpm until 7500rpm. The power never fell off. We tried less timing but the car didn’t respond well and the power curve was sloppier. At 13psi and about 29 degrees of timing we made 872rwhp. At 20psi and ~24 degrees of timing we made 989rwhp.
At 30 psi and 20 degrees of timing we ended up with 1066rwhp. The fuel injectors were at 75% duty cycle at this power level. Whereas with gasoline they were at about 55%. The fuel pressure was also slightly falling off at the top. The lack of a large power increase from 20-30psi is due to the tiny exhaust housings on this street car.

In total we made 16 dyno pulls and we never heard any detonation, but we did hit fuel cut a few times during testing. The next day the spark plugs were pulled and there may have been slight detonation in 2 of the cylinders because the porcelain was speckled. However the car still runs fine. This is definitely a very impressive fuel.

To learn more about E85 and to check for stations in your area please go here:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85t.../e85_fuel.html

PLEASE CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE DYNO RUNS IN .JPG FORMAT:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techart...5/coleruns.jpg

Video:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techart.../stevedyno.wmv

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

These guys are already putting down OVER 1,000 Wheel Horse Power with E85. They also talk about E-98, E-99, E-100.

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...?topic=47094.0


Cris, I hope you post your results man. I'd love to run this straight.

We have E-85 where I'm at.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Crap, too late

zinx

iTrader: (3)

So what do you think would be a good premix ratio for a rotary running on E85 assuming the OMP has been removed?

I'm assuming that only Castor oils should be used as a premix with E85 instead of the usual TCW-3 premixes.

crispeed

Choice of premix lube is dependant on user results. I prefer castor because of the results I've experienced. Everyone got their own choice.
As for pre mix with E-85 that's still debatable. I would probably start with the same amount of extra fuel needed so in other words at least 25-30% more premix.
On 100% methanol I normaly use a 100% increase in pre-mix at minimum over what I would use say on regular fuel. On regular fuel premix at minimum would be 1oz per gallon of fuel. That ratio also changes dependant on motor output/useage and also type of lubricant used.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Cris, how about some information on the car you'll using as the test mule ?

crispeed

Or that's easy.
Bet you can guess it correct the first time.
It's easy because this one runs on c-16 all the time with a minimum boost of 25-27psi.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Hmm, I would guess your car but then I see your IRS Car in your sig........... hmm ?

frode

V8KILLA :-)

We've had no problems with aluminum surgetanks/rails/whatever and E85.

crispeed

Bing Bing Bing!!!!

We have a winner! Actually a good guesser.

crispeed

That's very good to know.

Well as of today 'V8 Killa' is being fed a steady diet of Corn Juice!
All I can say is that I'm amazed at the results so far.
First off I don't think it's as corrosive as some people have assumed. The exhaust fumes are almost non existent. We were able to stand right next to the exhaust and we could not tell the car was running when comparing it to the regular fuel it was on before. I had to actually put my hand and nose into the tail pipe to get a wiff of the stuff. It reminds me of the county buses and vechicles that run on E-85.
On the initial startup I added 30% fuel. It started right up and came to a perfect idle. It was little on the rich side at around 12.0 AFR vs 13.0-13.5 AFR it was at previously. After leaning out the mixture it was very noticable that the idle was much smoother and the idle vacume had increased over what it was before on regular fuel. The egt's are also lower at idle.
That's basically it for today. Can't wait for tommorow to keep messing with the corn fuel.

frode

What ignition setup are you using? In our experience you need a lot of power to get the mixture ignited under boost (again piston engines).

frode

What did I win?

crispeed

It's even worse on a rotary.
Same as before. MSD 6A's and MSD coils.

frode

Should do the job. Will be interesting to see (or at least get some info) on the ignition curve you end up with. The piston engines likes more of a flat curve on e85. More timing on low load and idle and less at high load when comparing to regular pump fuel.

crispeed

From what I was told most use the same timing they would on high octane 112-116 fuel. The properties of E85 does/should allow more ignition advance than say on low octane pump fuel.
I would not dare even try the timing I use on 100% methanol fuel applications.

Lasse wankel

I have a 96 FD strapped on my RotoTest today that was dynoing with 98 octane gasoline. It made 378 hp@16 psi boost. Easy to start no really problems unless it was 10.3 AFR. Then switched to E85 and added 30% more fuel to the whole map. Injectors are 850-1680 cc. Result, the car would not start anymore today! I tried 8-15BTDC L and T 10 deg less, no start. Tried then to lean out 10-15% fuel engine still don't want to start. When dynóing on gasoline the engine have HKS RE50 (think it,s 10.5 NGK wise) spark plugs. Can this be to cold plugs? The engine was between cold and hot.Apexo Power FC is being used. Someone have a clue why not the engine will start?

/Lasse

crispeed

It's in the tuning.
Make sure you add fuel to the crank maps also.
I'm running the same timing as before presently. Spark plugs are NGK 11.5's
Straight 100% Methanol cars start perfect here with cold plugs but I've been told that if it's extremely cold you may have starting problems. What's the temperature there?
Another thing is that your injector combo might be a little on the small side but you should have enough to at least crank and idle.

Lasse wankel

Thank's Chrispeed! Yesterday it was 20 deg celsius, but now here in Stockholm i think it will only be 10deg celsius in the dyno room that's cold!I will try as you said add a little more fuel on cranc and retard the L ignition from 15 to 8 as that was the motor started on gasoline. I also plan on injecting starting gas in the 2 holes in the upper manifold. Hope this will make to start the engine today?

/Lasse

btleier

great to see all of this info. I will be tuning my single turbo fd on e85 on monday, and hopefully will have good result to post.

crispeed

Good luck.
Can't wait to see the results.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Using crispeed's cost for E85 and needing 33% more, then the equivalent price per gallon compared to gas is $3.39. Many people overlook the extra cost due to needing 33% more.

frode

Very convenient getting "race fuel" on the local gas station, and very cheap comparing to other fuels with the same performance. Many people overlook that too!

crispeed

For me being able to make 6-700hp for a lot less than race fuel not to mention the added reliabilty E-85 should provide is well worth it. If I could have ran 100% methanol on a street applicatrion even at 120% increase in volume needed it's still less than 50% the cost of race fuel and I'm not going get into the positives for running Methanol.

13B-RX3

iTrader: (2)

That must be Puerto Ricans #1 best kept secret.