Icemastr

iTrader: (2)

I am thinking about purchasing an LS1 FD or putting an LS1 into one and doing a single turbo with a T88 or a T51R turbo. Hoping to have A/C, power steering etc. as well as a large FMIC. Any guesses how easily or difficult/ possible it will be to fit? Also I am curious how much boost a C5 LS1 with an FMIC will be able to handle stock and what upgrades I would need to do internally to run a lot of boost on pump gas.

dvls-7

You wouldn't need that big of a turbo...unless you are looking for something that is almost completely undriveable. Those V8s respond well to boost.

wingsfan

Weel, you'll likley have to lose one of the items you're talking about keeping.

I'm fabbing a single setup for a GT45 for my LS1 converted FD. AC is the one that has to go in my case. There simply isn't enough underhood room for the PS, and AC. You could relocate the alternator to the passenger side head and maybe keep all of those, but then the exhaust piping mihgt get a little tricky.

Finding room for a large frame t88 will be a challenge too. I'm going to have to get creative even with my mid frame sized gt45.

1point3liter

I'm building a turbo LS1 FD right now. My engine is almost completely and I'm very close to starting on the turbo plumbing. It will fit.

Turbowise, imo you may want to consider a larger turbo. I'm unsure of the specs on a T51R (I do know it's expensive). If you're reffering to a Greddy t78's/ T88's. I believe they share the same compressor wheel. It's around 65mm so basically a T-66. A single T-66 will work, but a lot of people are having great luck with larger turbos. 76mm turbos are very popular. How much power are you looking to make?

You shouldn't have trouble making 500-550rwhp with a stock engine if you do your homework and build it right. Bolting on a set of aluminum 6 liter heads will help as they lower your compression and flow better. If you're planning on stock internals, at least use ARP rod bolts. The are around $80 and usually the first part of the bottom end to let go.

If your serious about this project, read more here.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9

We usually see the same questions weekly (sometimes daily) so use the search feature before asking.

Also, feel free to ask away here if you have more questions. I've been researching turbo ls1's for months now and don't mind sharing.

1point3liter

drewman? lol

wingsfan

Just now figuring that out Bryan? Wingsfan was already taken over at TC. Same at LS1Tech.

Sure you don't. That's why all the secrecy with your current project. JK.

1point3liter

yea, I haven't kept up with this forum as much. What's your name on ls1tech?

I actually like the layout of this board a ton better than TC. The only problem here is that rotards ocassionaly chime in with "you've taken the car's soul".


What fun would it be to tell everyone exactly what I'm doing. There will be plently of pics of EVERYTHING when it's finished and possibly a few during the fabrication process of the turbo setup. I just find it more fun this way since you guys have no clue how simple or extreme my setup will be. lol .

wingsfan

Same as TC, Drewman. I don't post much there. I mainly just lurk and try to garner as much info as I can. There's a lot of really knowledgeable people there. Lots of morons too, so sometimes it's tough to sift through the chaff.

I agree. That, and the PMs from time to time telling me they hope I wreck my car gets really old. As a result I don't post here as much as before.



Just giving you a hard time. I'm sure your **** will turn out nice. I have a hard time staying quiet about what I'm doing just 'cause I'm excited about it. I have thought once or twice about shelving the turbo for a different project and just building a stroker and putting the AC back in. But that's probably because it's firggin hot here during the summer, so I haven't had a chance to use my car that much.

Also, I'm a couple months from building everything since the upfront cost is so high. Since it's just a hobby for me I've got to meter out the appropriate amount of monthly expense towards everything.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I'll have to give you a call at some point and pick your brain about some things. I've got 99% of my details worked out, but it's always those last few things that kill you.

TTYL.

Icemastr

iTrader: (2)

I am quite serious about this. Originally I was planning on doing a 396 or 427 stroker and make as much HP as possible naturally aspirated but I am just addicted to turbos. I have been reading up on LS1tech for awhile but I have a lot more to learn. I just mainly posted on here to figure out about the space issues before I planned anything. I am curious to find out what response of a large turbo is on a 5.7 V8, I didn't think a Greddy T88 or T51R would be too laggy, but maybe I am wrong? I havent had any experience with it but I figured it would be better response than on a 20B. Its just since the engine has 10:1 compression stock I would be limited to lower boost and have no idea how much power the car will make since on 13B's the T51R KAI only makes around 450-470rwhp @15psi. Just trying to figure out if if will be smarter to throw the turbo on and run it around for awhile on low boost for awhile then upgrade the motor to handle higher boost later, or upgrade the motor at the same time. So it will be very difficult to keep A/C and Power Steering.

1point3liter

There are assloads of turbo ls1 dyno plots on ls1tech if you poke around. That will show how they respond. You'll make over 500 easily on a stock motor if you do your homework.

What kind of rotary setup did you have? Why are you set on an over priced greddy or hks turbo?

Icemastr

iTrader: (2)

I have had several setups. Last car I just sold was stock twins and stock motor made 350RWHP best of 12.6 on street tires and 11.7 on mickey thompsons. I have a lot of spare turbo parts in the garage include a T51R KAI turbo that I want to make use of but might get an SPL. I was going to put it on my 13B setup but with the stock ports I didn't think I would like the lag so I was gonna do a 20B, but sold that car because it had too many miles then I had a 95 rolling chassis that I was planning to do a 20B on but I never bought a 20B motor and I moved from Washington to California because of work so I sold the chassis to a shop and now I am looking for another 3rd gen RX-7 to buy so I will either buy a car with a 20B in it already or most likely buy a nice condition low mileage 93-95 car and drive it until december or january and do the V8 swap or buy one with a LS1 already in it. The V8 swap just seems more appleaing to me plus seems like a bit less expensive as well. I have been dealing with small displacement motors for so long I want something with a V8 but Camaros and Corvettes arent my style so I figured a motor I love with a car I love will fit nicely, plus add a sweet sounding turbo with the right setup so the car goes fast then just goes faster would be cool. Got a 2.5L 4 cylinder with a T04E turbo pushing 25PSI in another car and putting a 1.3L Whipple supercharger in my ladies 2.0 miata so she can compete in CSL next year so I am no stranger to boost.

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

The Precision Turbo & Engine T70-GTQ or T76-GTQ is another good option and well priced. This version of the T-70 makes over 80-100hp more than a similarly spec'd T-70 using older "wheel" technology. Either should make 550-650rwhp easily and spool quickly with an LS1 breathing on it. That is what I would use.

You could always build a budget motor with .005" overbore, Diamond or JE forged slugs, aftermarket rods, stock crank, balanced assembly, Total Seal file fit rings and make crazy power.

There is a write up of one of these shortblock similar to this with hydraulic roller cam and ported heads/LS6 intake making 1000hp+ with over 30 dyno pulls. They plan to race the car (full weight Camaro) and go 8's.

-GNX7

Icemastr

iTrader: (2)

What turbo are you going to be using 1point3Liter and where are you going to mount it in the engine bay? What location options are there for mounting the turbo?

NoOne

I still think from a weight standpoint NA Big cube is the way to go.

I'd love nothing more than a turbo LS1 again, but dropping a good 60-70lbs on the conservative side over the front end just doesn't make sense.

When you look at what you can get out of a smaller turbo LS1 versus a big cube Ls1, your both about 470-500rwhp, one weighs less, has less heat issues, and is easier to tune.

If your looking at a bigger unit and over 550rwhp then its a different story.

I'd see how pricing of 408ci LS2 strokers come out, I bet they'll be cheap for a good NA motor.

wingsfan

I agree that for 500rwhp it'd be a waste of money to go the turbocharger route. It just wouldn't make sense if that was your goal. If you're willing to step up to a t76 or larger (which I have) then we're talking a different game.

And I hope (and sort of doubt but won't know until I'm done) that the net exchange in weight is not more than say 75 pounds or so in the front. I'm not too terribly concerned with weight distribution either as I'm of the opinion that it's one of the most overhyped selling points of the 7 anyways.

Skeltah

I hope you crash you car wings.. j/k hows the car coming along man? I havent seen you on the boards in a while.

Matthew Walsh

wingsfan

I'm around.

Car's the same as always. Haven't started tearing into it to make my turbo setup just yet. I've been focusing on accumulating all of the things I need for Jim's Cobra IRS swap.

NoOne

You've got me thinking again now that I've seen these 6 liter turned around manifold setups to put the turbo up front.

It looks super simple if it would fit.

2 6 liter manifolds, turned around, very small 2 into 1 y pipe with a flange, pop a turbo on there, down into the intercooler and back up top.

I bet, if it really would fit, you could make one cheap *** turbo setup that might make you not care about the weight.

wingsfan

Well, I don't think the 6.0L manifolds will fit turned around (they're too wide, or at least edelbrock shorties are), but that's the general idea anyways. I know for a 100% fact that my turbo will fit where I want it, it's just a matter of getting creative with the plumbing to fit both a manifold and a downpipe in on the passenger side. The driver side is a non issue.

I take it you saw wheel to wheel make 1300+ hp with the stock truck manifolds huh?

NoOne

Yep and I started putting numbers together.

If it was that easy, 6 liter manifolds are a dime a dozen and its 80 percent of the headache right there.

A good intercooler, those guys are grabbing OBX's for 275, some pipe...injectors, turbo with integral wastegate, external boost control and a blow off, you might be able to do this yourself REAL cheap, far cheaper than a 404 stroker LS2 without having to take the motor out.

wingsfan

Well, I'm going to pick a set up off of ebay and find out. They can be had for about $35, so it's not a real big investment. I'm going to build a set of tubular manifolds anyways, but if a set of 6.0L manifolds can get me running in the meantime, that's the way to go.

I picked up an OBX this weekend. They look reasonalbly large, and a bunch of the supercharged guys seem to like them. I figure for $300 I can't go too wrong. Hell, I was going to make my own using a core from Bell intercoolers, but the core itself was $900+. For that kind of $$$ it's worth trying the OBX.

Between that and the GT45 I picked up for $700 I've saved about $1500 off of my initial budget ($1300 for a t76 and $1200 for the IC) for the project.

The only problem I see with the setup you're describing is the internal wastegate. All of the appropriately sized turbos that I know of use an external WG.

Oh... and just about anything is going to be cheaper than an LS2 at this point. Maybe that won't be true in a year or so, but for now they're pretty $$$$ (except I realize you might have connections because of your line of work? ). The other **** for the turbo project will nickle and dime you to death though.

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

The good thing about the 6.0 truck manifolds is that they are cast and won't crack. They obviously flow well from the results wheel to wheel found.

If they do clear..... you can bet there will be a few insane LS1 FD's running around.

FYI- An .005" overbored LS1 with stock cast crank, better forged rods/pistons, rings, ARP main studs, mildly ported heads, small hydraulic roller cam, LS6 intake (modded/epoxy'd), ported stock TB, custom headers, single InnovativeBB 80mm turbo, DFI, 60# injectors, liquid PTE intercooler and T56 went 9.80's@146mph in a 3800lb Camaro with about 20psi. I believe he has spun the motor to 7200rpm as well quite a few times. He said full boost was achieved at about 3500rpm..... whoosh!

Seems to be holding up fine and oil pressure looks good. Even though the stock crank is cast it has rolled fillets on the rod/main journals which help to add a lot of strength. Buick GN Turbo V6 guys run stock cranks that have the rolled fillets and are making 700rwhp+ with less main caps to support the load.... How long... they never really talk about that part.

But if you detuned the setup in this guys Camaro you could run it for a long time... and I'm sure turn up the wick only at the track. Imagine an 8 second LS1 turbo FD with a 6speed that is a street car...... basically the same setup as above with a 2800lb FD.

Wingsfan- PM me with the results you find with the 6.0 truck manifolds. Thanks...

-GNX7

wingsfan

At almost 1400 hp, I'd say they aren't going to be the limiting factor.

You think? FWIW I already knew I was insane!

Matt Harlan is running 8.8X seconds @~160mph in his Fbody on a stock crank. Again, I don't think it's a limiting factor at all. I'm still going to stroke the motor to 6.3L though :p

Obviously forged internals are a good idea, but you can still make good power without them (for awhile anyways). Rob Raymer made 750+ rwhp on a bone stock motor with hs wheels slipping all over the dyno, so it can be done...for awhile anyways.

If you haven't already checked this out you shuold:

http://www.dmperformance.org/

That girdle should help out a ton with the block integrity. And for $400 + the price of the special set of studs it's pretty cheap insurance if you want to run a built motor ($$$).

Don't you want to share with everyone else Mark?

I went ahead and picked up a set of manifolds. They ran me $53 delivered (shipping was $23!!! ) If they work they're a steal at that price. If they don't, well back on ebay they go.

FWIW, when I get started I plan on photo documenting everything both here and over at torquecentral. I'm sure someone will find it usefull.

wingsfan

Well, my truck manifolds got here today. There's good news and bad news.

Good news is it looks like they will fit no problem. Side clearance shouldn't be an issue at all. I won't know for sure until I actually take things apart and put the manifolds in, and I'm not doing that until after October 24th (autocross event on the Texas Motoro Speedway Road course that I'm not missing for anything. Unfortunately it's a huge PITA to drop my exhaust manifolds, so I'm only doing it once.

Now the bad news. The driver's side manifold (old passenger side manifold turned backwards) points right at the alternator. I mean right at it. So the alternator needs to move. Not that big of a deal since there's room for it on the passenger side cylinder head. It just means a custom bracket and belt. No big deal really.

wingsfan

Some quick specs on the manifolds. They weigh a ton (32#), and they have a 1 5/8" inlet, and 2.5" outlets.

They're off of an 02 Chevy z71 pickup, which is a 5.3L vortec engine, but supposedly all of the truck manifolds are the same. I hoep so. Anyhow, they look like they should work just fine to get me up and running.