XS Engineering tuning.... how much???
10-06-04, 11:05 PM
#26
The Laser Man
Thread Starter
A Dataliggit huh??? Are they easy to do it yourself with the help of the other PFC owners?? Man... I heard its dangerous to do that if you don't know what the hell you are doing but if I play with it with other people who had used the data loggit before I think it would be ok.
Oh and about the settings on my PFC I got it when I bought the car... the previous owner said the car is running real rich so my idleing is bad because of that.... so.... the maps I believe are not just a fresh new PFC map... I believe it has been altered a bit.
Oh and about the settings on my PFC I got it when I bought the car... the previous owner said the car is running real rich so my idleing is bad because of that.... so.... the maps I believe are not just a fresh new PFC map... I believe it has been altered a bit.
10-06-04, 11:37 PM
#27
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well that is fine if it is altered. if you are driving the car now, you can just take some readings from the ways you currently drive it....if any of the readings show the car running lean...add some fuel in the appropriate cel for boost and rpm. if its rich (under 11.2:1) then remove some points of fuel....take some other readings...make little baby step adjustments... and i mean little baby steps (ie the smallest increments possible til you see how it works)....once you get that dialed in...work on pulls thru the rpm/boost range...starting at the very lowest and inching your way up.
It is actually fun to do yourself because you can see what your car is doing and you know for a fact that your **** is dialed in right...
however, there is a level of understanding that the tuners have...especially steve kan in my experience...that make me appreciate what they are capable of doing with these cars.
J
J
It is actually fun to do yourself because you can see what your car is doing and you know for a fact that your **** is dialed in right...
however, there is a level of understanding that the tuners have...especially steve kan in my experience...that make me appreciate what they are capable of doing with these cars.
J
J
10-07-04, 12:08 AM
#29
Ghost Ride the Whip
I had my car datalogitted after they tuned my car. The maps in there are fine although quite rich. I put the car on a dyno up here adn the AFR were high 10's. I beat the **** out of my car on a regular basis and so far there has been no problems. If I ever got a bigger turbo or did any major changes to my car I wouldn't mind taking my car back to them.
Originally Posted by artguy
well whether yours made it there or not, the fact of the matter is that we were told they never pulled more than 360 rwhp from a car with an m2 large. your comment supports my point. the m2 will work fine on high hp cars.
as far as the SMIC on the dyno...nothing a bag of ice and a giant fan wont cure. so what..you have to wait a few minutes for temps to come down after each pull....thats what they are paid to do. to tune your car.
you spent two trips to xs at 350 each....thats seven hundred bones. kan tunes for half that much and it gets done right.
honestly man, i think you should datalog your maps and see what is done to timing and fuel.
Jason
as far as the SMIC on the dyno...nothing a bag of ice and a giant fan wont cure. so what..you have to wait a few minutes for temps to come down after each pull....thats what they are paid to do. to tune your car.
you spent two trips to xs at 350 each....thats seven hundred bones. kan tunes for half that much and it gets done right.
honestly man, i think you should datalog your maps and see what is done to timing and fuel.
Jason
10-07-04, 12:09 AM
#30
Ghost Ride the Whip
oh yeah, the first time I went to XS is because I didn't have any ignition, plugs, wires so the car misfired so they could only tune it to 10psi. I went back a second time after I got all my ignition stuff sorted out and my car has been fine since.
10-07-04, 12:44 AM
#32
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Originally Posted by akiratdk
Who is this Steve Kan dude and where is he located at??? Does he have a store or is he just a RX7 enthusiast like us???
! Call him up. here is the link to the home page : http://www.gothamracing.com/catalog/I guess you could call him a "enthusiast"
Here is a link to a tune session in colorado.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=338418
Last edited by BigIslandSevens; 10-07-04 at 12:49 AM.
10-07-04, 01:10 AM
#34
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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i wouldn't mess with the PFC unless you feel compitent with it.
And while Steve can't stop you from watching what he does... i doubt you'll be able to remember or replicate it.( No offense... I wouldn't be able to either ) Plus once he does the tuning for you. There is really no need to change things.
And while Steve can't stop you from watching what he does... i doubt you'll be able to remember or replicate it.( No offense... I wouldn't be able to either
) Plus once he does the tuning for you. There is really no need to change things.
10-07-04, 08:19 AM
#36
John
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Ralph at Ground Zero Motorsports in Portland Oregon is probably the most confident guy you'll ever meet that can tune the PFC right. This guy runs a 700rwhp 13b, street driven. Kind of a far drive but he will be strait up with you and won't risk your engine. Last time he charged $400 and we were on the dyno having fuel issues for over 5hrs. He's a very fair guy
10-07-04, 04:29 PM
#38
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Way back in the day when the PFC first came out and we didnt have a datalogit I sent my PFC to XS twice for thier mail order tuning maps. They were **** and both of them blew an engine within 2K-4K miles. Lucky for me after the second engine blew my car was down for a while and the datalogit came out, I bought that and had Steve tune it. Matter of fact it was the first PFC and datalogit that Steve Kan tuned and he did a great job. I made 400+rwhp with the stage 3 BNR twins.
And yes, there was a lot of negative split in the XS maps and it was in some bad areas too.
And yes, there was a lot of negative split in the XS maps and it was in some bad areas too.
Last edited by SPOautos; 10-07-04 at 04:31 PM.
10-08-04, 06:59 AM
#39
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i can vouch for jason and zavier's tuning skills. i sent my power fc to jason when i had my stock twins and when i got it back, i was running low 12's, high 11's on my a/f ratio and it was as smooth as could be.
they also tuned my car for $300 after i installed my t78. i've since then put about 9k miles on the car and it's still running perfect
they also tuned my car for $300 after i installed my t78. i've since then put about 9k miles on the car and it's still running perfect
10-08-04, 03:01 PM
#40
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mail order tuning is nothing but guessing. if they hit it spot on it was pure luck. sticking a mail order map in there will save some time at xs...though not a lot..cuz they just will dump the map and plug in one of their own...just like they did with me. matter of fact, they erased all my maps and had to start fresh (increased dyno time i guess).
there have been many motors lost on these boards due to mail order guess maps. they are a fine place to start...but you will need to adjust them in order to get a clean map in there which is why jason suggests that you at least check them at xs. pay for a dyno pull and see where you are at least.
there have been many motors lost on these boards due to mail order guess maps. they are a fine place to start...but you will need to adjust them in order to get a clean map in there which is why jason suggests that you at least check them at xs. pay for a dyno pull and see where you are at least.
Last edited by artguy; 10-08-04 at 03:07 PM.
10-08-04, 03:19 PM
#41
Originally Posted by poo_on_u
has anyone had their cars dynoed at Autotech Motorsports or Sport Car Motion in San Diego ?
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260617
Originally Posted by akiratdk
Who is this Steve Kan dude and where is he located at??? Does he have a store or is he just a RX7 enthusiast like us???
lol! sell your car man...
J/k I'm just messing with you
10-08-04, 11:57 PM
#42
John
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Originally Posted by artguy
mail order tuning is nothing but guessing. if they hit it spot on it was pure luck. sticking a mail order map in there will save some time at xs...though not a lot..cuz they just will dump the map and plug in one of their own...just like they did with me. matter of fact, they erased all my maps and had to start fresh (increased dyno time i guess).
there have been many motors lost on these boards due to mail order guess maps. they are a fine place to start...but you will need to adjust them in order to get a clean map in there which is why jason suggests that you at least check them at xs. pay for a dyno pull and see where you are at least.
there have been many motors lost on these boards due to mail order guess maps. they are a fine place to start...but you will need to adjust them in order to get a clean map in there which is why jason suggests that you at least check them at xs. pay for a dyno pull and see where you are at least.
11-09-04, 05:51 PM
#43
XS experience
Here's my $.02. Take it for what it's worth. I'm just trying to be informative. These comments are simply my opinion and hopefully will help someone else make a more informed decision.
First off, my car never actually got "tuned," so these comments are a bit more general. XS is not cheap by any means. As someone else pointed out, they will do a comprehensive diagnostic on the car to make sure it's in running order, and will suggest fixes or changes based on what they see. I have no problems with this, and it's a good way for them to limit the chances they get blamed for pre-existing problems. Most people know FDs are not bulletproof when carelessly modified. They did this with my car and most of the items they pointed out were fair. I agreed with some of them and had them done. Other "optional" changes I declined and got no hassles.
The rates they charge can be high. I'm not a mechanic and have very little basis for arguing how long it takes to install various pieces. However, $700 to install a fuel pressure regulator seems somewhat egregious to me. A top notch, very experienced mechanic who works on FDs nearly every day and has owned several agreed. Nevertheless, that is what I was charged to put one on. I have an M2 IC and got no hassles about it. I had no products from XS on the car and got no hard sell to put any on. In fact, there was an opportunity to have them do custom work on the car and they never pushed for me to do it (more on that later).
I had several problems with the car holding boost down, so they were never able to fully tune the car. However, they did do a LOT of other work, and had to load and unload my car from the dyno twice. I got charged each time - the basic hookup costs plus a minimum of one hour, even though the 2nd time the car was on the dyno for about 5 minutes. No breaks. I'm not sure you can fault them for this since they were up front about the costs, but personally I would have liked to see some flexibility since I was dropping a LOT of money there.
My biggest complaint was more about their level of customer service. Do not get any false impressions about your value as a customer to them. They are a well known shop that has a lot of business. They have a line of cars in their lot waiting for work. If you walk away, they have more than enough work to fill in the gap that you have left. In fact, I got the impression that they would rather NOT do some of the work on my car because it disrupted their schedule and delayed the completion of other cars. The overall impression I got was that my business was not in the least bit important to them. They could take it or leave it. That's a nice position to be in, and you decide if you want to fault them for that. When I was there in person, they treated me well. On the phone, it was sometimes different and easier for them to be less customer friendly.
My bill was over $2K, and it seemed clear to me that that level of business is not a lot to them. They had several FDs there in various stages of completion, several Lexus', STIs, Evos, and even an R34 Skyline, all with extensive mods. I'm sure many of these customers were spending far more than me.
You make the call. Did they seem knowledgeable? Yes. They are very familiar with FDs and the PowerFC, which is a definite plus, but then again, I didn't get a full tune. Did I get a hard sell for their stuff? No. Are their prices high? Probably, but they can charge it and people pay it. Are they a customer centric organization? In my case, no. If you drop over $10K there, who knows? Sorry for the length.
First off, my car never actually got "tuned," so these comments are a bit more general. XS is not cheap by any means. As someone else pointed out, they will do a comprehensive diagnostic on the car to make sure it's in running order, and will suggest fixes or changes based on what they see. I have no problems with this, and it's a good way for them to limit the chances they get blamed for pre-existing problems. Most people know FDs are not bulletproof when carelessly modified. They did this with my car and most of the items they pointed out were fair. I agreed with some of them and had them done. Other "optional" changes I declined and got no hassles.
The rates they charge can be high. I'm not a mechanic and have very little basis for arguing how long it takes to install various pieces. However, $700 to install a fuel pressure regulator seems somewhat egregious to me. A top notch, very experienced mechanic who works on FDs nearly every day and has owned several agreed. Nevertheless, that is what I was charged to put one on. I have an M2 IC and got no hassles about it. I had no products from XS on the car and got no hard sell to put any on. In fact, there was an opportunity to have them do custom work on the car and they never pushed for me to do it (more on that later).
I had several problems with the car holding boost down, so they were never able to fully tune the car. However, they did do a LOT of other work, and had to load and unload my car from the dyno twice. I got charged each time - the basic hookup costs plus a minimum of one hour, even though the 2nd time the car was on the dyno for about 5 minutes. No breaks. I'm not sure you can fault them for this since they were up front about the costs, but personally I would have liked to see some flexibility since I was dropping a LOT of money there.
My biggest complaint was more about their level of customer service. Do not get any false impressions about your value as a customer to them. They are a well known shop that has a lot of business. They have a line of cars in their lot waiting for work. If you walk away, they have more than enough work to fill in the gap that you have left. In fact, I got the impression that they would rather NOT do some of the work on my car because it disrupted their schedule and delayed the completion of other cars. The overall impression I got was that my business was not in the least bit important to them. They could take it or leave it. That's a nice position to be in, and you decide if you want to fault them for that. When I was there in person, they treated me well. On the phone, it was sometimes different and easier for them to be less customer friendly.
My bill was over $2K, and it seemed clear to me that that level of business is not a lot to them. They had several FDs there in various stages of completion, several Lexus', STIs, Evos, and even an R34 Skyline, all with extensive mods. I'm sure many of these customers were spending far more than me.
You make the call. Did they seem knowledgeable? Yes. They are very familiar with FDs and the PowerFC, which is a definite plus, but then again, I didn't get a full tune. Did I get a hard sell for their stuff? No. Are their prices high? Probably, but they can charge it and people pay it. Are they a customer centric organization? In my case, no. If you drop over $10K there, who knows? Sorry for the length.
11-09-04, 06:00 PM
#44
Originally Posted by akiratdk
Who is this Steve Kan dude and where is he located at??? Does he have a store or is he just a RX7 enthusiast like us???
11-09-04, 08:18 PM
#45
Ghost Ride the Whip
I think you hit everything right on the spot.
$700 for a fuel pressure regulator install? DAAAAAAAAAAMN!
I totally agree about the customer service too. While Koji, Pete, Reggie, and Eric are very friendly, some other people (unnamed) are not very customer service orientated at all.
However, when all is said and done, I am still very happy with the tuning they did on my power fc. The car made good power and ran really smooth also so no complaints there.
$700 for a fuel pressure regulator install? DAAAAAAAAAAMN!
I totally agree about the customer service too. While Koji, Pete, Reggie, and Eric are very friendly, some other people (unnamed) are not very customer service orientated at all.
However, when all is said and done, I am still very happy with the tuning they did on my power fc. The car made good power and ran really smooth also so no complaints there.
Originally Posted by mavila
Here's my $.02. Take it for what it's worth. I'm just trying to be informative. These comments are simply my opinion and hopefully will help someone else make a more informed decision.
First off, my car never actually got "tuned," so these comments are a bit more general. XS is not cheap by any means. As someone else pointed out, they will do a comprehensive diagnostic on the car to make sure it's in running order, and will suggest fixes or changes based on what they see. I have no problems with this, and it's a good way for them to limit the chances they get blamed for pre-existing problems. Most people know FDs are not bulletproof when carelessly modified. They did this with my car and most of the items they pointed out were fair. I agreed with some of them and had them done. Other "optional" changes I declined and got no hassles.
The rates they charge can be high. I'm not a mechanic and have very little basis for arguing how long it takes to install various pieces. However, $700 to install a fuel pressure regulator seems somewhat egregious to me. A top notch, very experienced mechanic who works on FDs nearly every day and has owned several agreed. Nevertheless, that is what I was charged to put one on. I have an M2 IC and got no hassles about it. I had no products from XS on the car and got no hard sell to put any on. In fact, there was an opportunity to have them do custom work on the car and they never pushed for me to do it (more on that later).
I had several problems with the car holding boost down, so they were never able to fully tune the car. However, they did do a LOT of other work, and had to load and unload my car from the dyno twice. I got charged each time - the basic hookup costs plus a minimum of one hour, even though the 2nd time the car was on the dyno for about 5 minutes. No breaks. I'm not sure you can fault them for this since they were up front about the costs, but personally I would have liked to see some flexibility since I was dropping a LOT of money there.
My biggest complaint was more about their level of customer service. Do not get any false impressions about your value as a customer to them. They are a well known shop that has a lot of business. They have a line of cars in their lot waiting for work. If you walk away, they have more than enough work to fill in the gap that you have left. In fact, I got the impression that they would rather NOT do some of the work on my car because it disrupted their schedule and delayed the completion of other cars. The overall impression I got was that my business was not in the least bit important to them. They could take it or leave it. That's a nice position to be in, and you decide if you want to fault them for that. When I was there in person, they treated me well. On the phone, it was sometimes different and easier for them to be less customer friendly.
My bill was over $2K, and it seemed clear to me that that level of business is not a lot to them. They had several FDs there in various stages of completion, several Lexus', STIs, Evos, and even an R34 Skyline, all with extensive mods. I'm sure many of these customers were spending far more than me.
You make the call. Did they seem knowledgeable? Yes. They are very familiar with FDs and the PowerFC, which is a definite plus, but then again, I didn't get a full tune. Did I get a hard sell for their stuff? No. Are their prices high? Probably, but they can charge it and people pay it. Are they a customer centric organization? In my case, no. If you drop over $10K there, who knows? Sorry for the length.
First off, my car never actually got "tuned," so these comments are a bit more general. XS is not cheap by any means. As someone else pointed out, they will do a comprehensive diagnostic on the car to make sure it's in running order, and will suggest fixes or changes based on what they see. I have no problems with this, and it's a good way for them to limit the chances they get blamed for pre-existing problems. Most people know FDs are not bulletproof when carelessly modified. They did this with my car and most of the items they pointed out were fair. I agreed with some of them and had them done. Other "optional" changes I declined and got no hassles.
The rates they charge can be high. I'm not a mechanic and have very little basis for arguing how long it takes to install various pieces. However, $700 to install a fuel pressure regulator seems somewhat egregious to me. A top notch, very experienced mechanic who works on FDs nearly every day and has owned several agreed. Nevertheless, that is what I was charged to put one on. I have an M2 IC and got no hassles about it. I had no products from XS on the car and got no hard sell to put any on. In fact, there was an opportunity to have them do custom work on the car and they never pushed for me to do it (more on that later).
I had several problems with the car holding boost down, so they were never able to fully tune the car. However, they did do a LOT of other work, and had to load and unload my car from the dyno twice. I got charged each time - the basic hookup costs plus a minimum of one hour, even though the 2nd time the car was on the dyno for about 5 minutes. No breaks. I'm not sure you can fault them for this since they were up front about the costs, but personally I would have liked to see some flexibility since I was dropping a LOT of money there.
My biggest complaint was more about their level of customer service. Do not get any false impressions about your value as a customer to them. They are a well known shop that has a lot of business. They have a line of cars in their lot waiting for work. If you walk away, they have more than enough work to fill in the gap that you have left. In fact, I got the impression that they would rather NOT do some of the work on my car because it disrupted their schedule and delayed the completion of other cars. The overall impression I got was that my business was not in the least bit important to them. They could take it or leave it. That's a nice position to be in, and you decide if you want to fault them for that. When I was there in person, they treated me well. On the phone, it was sometimes different and easier for them to be less customer friendly.
My bill was over $2K, and it seemed clear to me that that level of business is not a lot to them. They had several FDs there in various stages of completion, several Lexus', STIs, Evos, and even an R34 Skyline, all with extensive mods. I'm sure many of these customers were spending far more than me.
You make the call. Did they seem knowledgeable? Yes. They are very familiar with FDs and the PowerFC, which is a definite plus, but then again, I didn't get a full tune. Did I get a hard sell for their stuff? No. Are their prices high? Probably, but they can charge it and people pay it. Are they a customer centric organization? In my case, no. If you drop over $10K there, who knows? Sorry for the length.
11-09-04, 09:06 PM
#46
Rotary Freak
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I was going to get my car tuned at xs engineering a couple of month ago and they quoted me from $600 and up.They said about 3 hours of tuning,75 diagnostic,and 75 to put it on the dyno, but it could be a little more depending on my car.
11-09-04, 10:36 PM
#47
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Christ - after hearing all these horror stories, I wouldn't let them tune my car even if it was free! Not worth it, when there's a possibility of a blown motor involved.
08-22-05, 03:57 PM
#48
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I'm driving over to ss-8 next month and was thinking about going to XS or Steve to get tuned. I got my answer now. I have the Xs turbo but I rather have Steve tune it than XS.
08-22-05, 07:26 PM
#49
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well, you are signed up for the tuning secession that we have set up with Steve Kan during the day's surrounding SS8! if anyone else wants to get a tune done to their car's the right way, pm me or check out this thread.. but we are almost full.!!!
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...7&page=1&pp=15
thanks!
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...7&page=1&pp=15
thanks!
08-22-05, 07:29 PM
#50
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Originally Posted by 1revn3rdgen
I was going to get my car tuned at xs engineering a couple of month ago and they quoted me from $600 and up.They said about 3 hours of tuning,75 diagnostic,and 75 to put it on the dyno, but it could be a little more depending on my car.
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