Wont go in gear while running
 

Hi all, after 5 years I finally got my hands on an FD again for a steal of a price but unfortunately I had to tow it home...Anyways my current problem is that I cant put the car in gear while the engine is running. The clutch pedal almost seems to do nothing. With the engine turned off I can shift into all gears rather roughly and pushing the clutch in makes no difference as far as ease of shifting goes. Ive been reading for hours now trying to figure out what might be the cause. The car had been sitting for 2 years. I tried starting the car in gear with clutch to the floor but it jumps like its in gear and stalls out as if the clutch isnt working. I took a video of the clutch being pushed while i film looking through the peek hole in the transmission and it seems to be working...maybe its not pulling it out enough? Any ideas? Hoping I wont have to pull the transmission but it might be my next step. I also did not try bleeding the system since everything seemed fine fluid wise.

Link to video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-xvOBGTAyk

There is a rod under the dash on the clutch pedal. It goes thru the firewall and into the master cylinder. What's happening is the clutch is not disengaging far enough to allow you the go into gear. If you loosen the nut on the rod, and adjust the rod a couple turns clockwise, it should give you a bit more travel to disengage the clutch. If it still won't work then there is a failing component, ie master or slave cylinder most likely.

Don't forget to bleed the slave cylinder first to make sure there is no air, but everything stated above is correct.

I actually just had to take mine in this week for the same problem.
I had them replace the master cylinder, but that was not the only problem.
I think it might be the clutch in general. I will let you know when they call me today to tell me what the damage is on the car.

But more than likely, you might as well replace the clutch entirely.

This sounds exactly like what happened to me at the beginning of this summer - couldn't get the car in gear while running, clutch had no effect but still felt fine. I tried replacing both the clutch and slave cylinders with brand new units - no effect. Thought maybe the clutch fork had cracked - I looked through the peephole, and the fork moved perfectly fine as a friend depressed the clutch.

It turns out that the pilot bearing had grenaded in the eccentric shaft, which caused the input shaft of the transmission to bind to the eccentric shaft. The remains (mostly dust and a couple rollers) of the pilot bearing fell out of the eccentric shaft as a friend helped me drop the transmission. By remains, I mean the destroyed inner race of the roller bearing. I had to DREMEL out the outer race of the bearing - I couldn't find a single bearing puller that would grab onto it.

If the trans had some loud whirring at idle, with the clutch engaged, then the pilot bearing probably gave out.

You can try the other things suggested as well, but I think you'll end up pulling the transmission. I wouldn't waste my time with the hydraulics, if the clutch still feels fine.

search for "clutch fork". That is usually the problem.

alright so i tried a few thing suggested here. Adjusted the pedal itself and that made no difference. I then tried to bleed the slave cylinder and it was air free and that made no difference as well. So I decided to pull the slave cylinder off to see in what condition it was in and it looked fine.

I had some one push the clutch in and it seemed to work fine. So i left the slave off and worked on something else for awhile and came back and pushed the clutch in maybe 8 times or so and next thing I know there's massive leak under the car. Seems the slave cylinder split in half which im assuming is not something that should be able to happen so easily or just by pushing the clutch a few times. So my guess is I need a new slave and will be ordering one today. Does this seems about right?

Is is brake fluid that is leaking? You can see where the split is?

Also did you try to start the car with it in gear with the brake pedal pushed? Since the car has sat for a while perhaps the PP and the clutch is rusted to the flywheel?



John

oh also while bleeding the slave cylinder, I would open the bleed nipple and have someone push the clutch pedal in and the clutch pedal would stay to the ground on its own then I would close the nipple and then you would have to pull the clutch pedal back up then it would snap back to its usual spot. Rinse and repeat. Is this how it works when bleeding a clutch as I have only ever had to bleed brakes and when bleeding brakes the pedal does not stay pushed in on its own like the clutch did.

Yes its the brake fluid thats leaking from the slave. My slave is currently in 2 pieces.

i also did start it in gear with ebrake on. Was not pushing in the brakes thought. Would it make a difference ebrake vs just brakes?

^ only if the car moved when you tried that.


John

The slave cylinder will come apart if you pump the pedal with no resistance against it. you can reassemble it but they are cheap enough to eliminate it as a possibility altogether. Could also be the fork as previously stated.

'the car did move when I put it in gear and started it.

Well I looked into the price and for a new one im looking at 110$. So maybe I should just reassemble it as it didn't seem to be a problem.

Did you verify that the pressure plate is engaged? It's only held on there by a little wire ring and if it's bent it can pop right off.

I think its engaged, isnt that the small ring in the video? Looks engaged I think. Im debating pulling the trans since its going to take awhile to get parts in anyways. Im guessing a few hours should do the trick to pull the trans. Never done it on the car just out of the car which was very quick and easy enough...

Interesting that it wasn't the hydraulics. ;)

The wire ring is on the opposite side of the pressure plate (you can't see it), but yes, it does look to be engaged from that video. If it weren't, the throwout bearing would slide on the input shaft without pulling the PP.

Hard to tell from that video, but it looks like the fork is pulling the clutch back far enough. You need to get back under the car and verify that there are no cracks in the clutch fork. If there are no cracks and the fork is fine, then your pilot bearing is likely toast.

From this point forward, you will be removing the transmission. It took me a full 12 hours to do the job with the trans in the car. Go take a look at the FSM, section J. I recommend you yank the trans before parts come in. The sooner you can verify the proper function of the bearings and clutch fork, the better.

Don't forget to get new trans and differential fluid.

What have you ordered so far?

so far im ordering slave and master cylinders just in case.

Also Ive pulled my shifter area apart and boot is torn and shifter itself it chewed up and everything looks beat up. Could that be part of the cause or is that just a different problem unrelated to current one?

Since the car's been sitting a while, I guess it's still a good idea to replace those cylinders.

Define chewed up.

Is the lower nylon bushing on the shifter itself intact? If you look in the FSM, page J-58, I am talking about the item labeled 12 - the shift seat.

I'd also check into renting a mazda pilot bearing puller, its tough to get out but takes 10 seconds with the right tool. There are some places that rent them out but cant remember off the top of my head, otherwise it's a $100+ dollar once in a blue moon tool.

I didnt pay too much attention to that, ill have to check again. I think it was fine. Im guessing that would cause major issues.

When I say chewed up I mean like item 11 theres like a strip cut out in it to slide into place. Well the strip it all chewed up. Maybe a picture will be best. Boots are all torn too and item 8 i believe is broken in half.

If the shifter seat is broken, you will not be able to select gears (easily - will feel very loose). Sounds like your stock shifter has some problems though. If it works well enough to select gears (you can hear and feel well enough to know if it's working), this is not the major issue at hand. Still, you would want to address the shifter sooner than later. Maybe get a short shifter kit? Preferably one with a metal shifter seat.

I wouldn't worry too much about the boots being torn, these are mostly to keep noise, vibration, and debris out of the cabin.

+1 to what twinsinside said. If I had access to a Mazda style puller, that might have done the trick. I didn't, so I had to use a dremel. I was very careful to only cut the outer race, and it took a couple diamond bits. My eccentric shaft was unblemished.

Make sure the transmission is very well supported when you take it out and put it back in. You will need something to support the engine, or at least keep it from tilting forward when you remove the trans. Will otherwise strain your motor mounts.

When are you going to search for clutch fork so that you can stop chasing your tail on the hydraulics. :)

lol, yes i did lots of reading on the clutch fork and inspected it as best as I can through peep hole and it looks fine. You never know though so thats why I want to pull tranny just to make sure everything is fine in there.

Keep us updated! With pics!

Fixt. :dunce:

If you do pull the tranny (you are probably going to have to sooner or later), validate that you have the clutch disc installed the proper direction. Having it installed backwards will give similar symptoms:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/clutch-problem-have-searched-any-knowledgeable-suggestions-669426/