Sprockett

Hey guys,
I took my car to Chris Sanders of Banzai Racing today, and after three hours this is what he found (and fixed)

- 10-15 vacuum lines were connected incorrectly
- 2 vacuum lines were not connected to anything, and were just stuffed into a tight space to hold in place
- 2 vacuum hoses were blatently forgotten about, and were disconnected
- 1 vacuum line was missing a one way check valve - to replace it, the dealership decided to stick a bolt in one end to clog the line and left the other line open
- the intake cover was not bolted down
- they used the wrong bolts to bolt things down (random sizes)
- The O2 sensor wire was severed, and replaced with a terrible wiring job with regular wire (not insulated), and one side was not even connected to the O2 sensor wire (just pulled out). Also, bare wire was exposed, leaking to the outside and laying right next to bare metal
- Charge Relief valve hooked to EGR valve spot
- y-coupler was not tightened down
- did not replace or catch a vacuum line with 2 cracks
- broke off solenoid mount
- BOV and ABV hooked up to wrong spot - all boost was coming out through the BOV
- wastegate precontroller connections switched
- charge relief valve hose was not clamped at all

before fixes I was running 5-2-0, and after 10-7-9 (turbos are getting a little weak)

Basically, before - everything was f*cked up, no boost
Now - boosted and loving it - back to 100%, or as close to it as I have been so far.


Let this be a lesson to you who want to take your FD to a dealership - trust me, most of them don't know a rotor from their *******. Unfortunately, I had to learn that the hard way
- Tyler

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Nice writeup Tyler. Don't take your car to a dealership unless you know the mechanic is experienced with these cars. Not many are qualified.

spurvo

So in the end, what did this cost you dollar wise. Gotta be a lawsuit here...

Felix Wankel

Be sure to let your dad know, since he seemed to prefer the dealer to work on it...

LAracer

glad you got it all worked out finally.

skunks

it never crossed my mind to taking my car to a dealer

AMRAAM4

I won't have major work done at a dealer, but more simple stuff I take it there to be done. Because after all, even if **** is done wrong I can take it back to them 5-6 times till they get it right as opposed to waiting 3-4 months until it can get in for its initial work (i.e. every shop around here just about). Besides, I document everything and should something go catastrophic, they will be paying for a dream motor....but not installing That would reeeeeally be a kick in the *****

SleepR1

It depends on the Mazda dealer. We're lucky in Indy to have two Mazda dealerships with experienced FD Rx7 techs. Tom Roush Mazda (Westfield IN) has Pete DuShong. Tom Wood Mazda (Indy's east side) has Larry "the Legend". I've never had trouble with either dealership, but I do like Roush more, cuz Pete's "the man"

vudoodoodoo

Wait were you the one that had your car at the dealer for like months to replace the motor?
Damn, about damn time you got that **** back~~!
I agree with Felix Wankel, go bitch at your dad!!!

Sprockett

Yep - the car runs beautifully now. Actually, it's the first time I've ever driven it with full boost. Before the engine blew, there was a nasty hole in the y-pipe coupler, and after getting the car back from the dealership the turbo system was never hooked up right. Basically - today was my first experience in a working FD. It took my breath away - literally. First words that came out of my mouth when the primary turbo spooled up in second - "OH MY GOD!!!"

Tyler

PS - I wrote to my dad, my mom is letting her lawyer deal with this, and hopefully I'll get some money out of the deal - at least enough to buy a second car for everyday driving (like a civic or something), or maybe they'll just give me a new mazda6 (probably not). That's my first goal - to get another car to use as a daily driver. Second, I need money for college, and third, modifying my car. I wish it was the other way around, but reality has a way of biting you in the ***.

911GT2

I'm glad it all worked out for ya, and glad to know that mazda stull sucks

Flybye

I've had my good and bad takes with dealers.
When I don't have the time or space to do something, I give it to them. Funny thing is, I always did a FULL tech inspection myself before driving off with the FD.

The oil pan was leaking. They were checking inside the bellhousing just to make sure it wasn't the real seal. These fools forgot to put back the plate on the bellhousing.

With all the stupids little things I sometimes find, I usually get a free oil change or radiator flush or something along those lines

Sprockett

OK- be prepared for a long post....just a warning.

I tried to do a writeup of the problems and notes about them (what I tried to pick up from Chris) to give to my mom's lawyer who is looking into this for me (and for my own records). Let me know if this all sounds OK...

Banzai Report

1.) 10-15 vacuum lines were connected incorrectly
2.) 2 vacuum lines were not connected to anything, and were just stuffed into a tight space to hold in place
3.) 2 vacuum hoses were blatantly forgotten about, and were disconnected
4.) 1 vacuum line was missing a one way check valve - to replace it, the dealership decided to stick a bolt in one end to clog the line and left the other line open
5.) The intake cover was not bolted down
6.) They used the wrong bolts to bolt things down (random sizes)
7.) The O2 sensor wire was severed, and replaced with a terrible wiring job with regular wire (not insulated), and one side was not even connected to the O2 sensor wire (just pulled out). Also, bare wire was exposed, leaking to the outside and laying right next to bare metal
8.) Charge Relief valve hooked to EGR valve spot
9.) Y-pipe coupler was not tightened down
10.) Did not replace or catch a vacuum line with 2 cracks
11.) Broke off solenoid mount
12.) BOV and ABV hooked up to wrong spot - all boost was coming out through the BOV
13.) Wastegate precontroller connections switched
14.) Charge relief valve hose was not clamped at all

15.) Before fixes the boost pattern was running 5-2-0 (psi), and after 10-7-9 (psi). Stock twin turbos are supposed to run the pattern 10-8-10 (psi).
NOTES:
1,2,3,4 - all vacuum lines have a purpose. All of them have a starting point (point A) and a finishing point (point B). None are left open to the air (negates boost/vacuum system). The ones they forgot about may be a little excusable, but not very. The ones they tried to hide and stick in a place where nothing was just to make it look like they were connected are completely inexcusable, and were done only because they refused to take the time to do it right. The improper connections are also inexcusable because Chris followed the same chart they would have had and was able to find points A and B very quickly with care and precision. Also, Thelen told me that everything was connected properly, which was a bold-faced lie – they knew they had not connected everything. Number 4 is a great example of the type of work Thelen did on my car. Not only did they lose a part (the check valve), but also they refused to order a new one, and instead clogged the line with a small bolt (which I kept).

5 - Case of them losing a bolt and rather than finding another one, left it loose
6 - More cases of them losing parts and trying to find a "quick fix" by using mismatched, wrong sized bolts (which I kept). All bolts like that in the car are 10mm, and the ones they used were not.
7 - This is a MAJOR problem. Chris said that it looked to him like they dropped out the exhaust without disconnecting the O2 Sensor, which happens to be the second most important sensor in the car. Doing this severed the O2 sensor wire. They attempted another "quick fix" by splicing the two severed ends together with regular 12-gauge wire (which I kept). The problem is, the original O2 wire was covered in two layers of insulation, which kept engine vibration and heat from interrupting the sensor from the O2 sensor to the ECU. The wire they used was also exposed (the actual copper part), and was left lying on top of other metal surfaces. The wire was also not routed the way it should have been, around the ABS system (they had it going through this system). These problems could have caused the O2 sensor's signal to be lost or corrupted, which would have caused the ECU to think that it needed to add more fuel, making the mixture extremely rich (lowering fuel economy and causing damage).
8 - Just another example of carelessness - hooking up hoses and lines to the wrong spot would obviously cause that to not work correctly, and would cause a problem
9 - This coupler is under a lot of pressure when the turbos are running correctly. Having this loose would cause a major boost leak, decreasing performance
10 - They might have broken the line or they might not have. This was a major vacuum line that was, because it was cracked, leaking out turbo boost pressure. Even if it was not their fault, they still should have caught and replaced the line.
11 - The solenoid mount on the driver's side was fine when I took it to them, but broken off when I got it back. Vibrations of these solenoids caused by them not being secured can cause them to fail, causing the engine to overboost, which would quickly lead to engine failure.
12 - Again, parts hooked up incorrectly. Chris said that all of the boost was blowing out the Blow-off valve (BOV), which it is definitely not supposed to do. The BOV is only designed to relieve backpressure when the turbos are suddenly cut off (during a shift or when foot is taken off of the gas)
13 - These connectors were clearly marked with their connections. One connector had a white mark on it, and one connection had a similar white mark. These markings helped to signify which connector went with which connection, yet somehow the mechanics at Thelen had them switched. This caused the secondary turbo to not function at all.
14 - This hose was not clamped at all. The clamp must have been lost and never replaced. Again, like number 9, this part is under a lot of pressure when turbos are functioning, and having it not clamped would have resulted in a turbo boost leak. Also, the possibility was present that the hose might come off while driving, because it did not take much force at all to pull it off.
15 - what this means is basically when I brought the car to Chris, it was under little to no turbo boost (basically Naturally Aspirated or NA). The stock primary turbo and secondary turbo are supposed to run at 10 psi, but my primary was at less than 5 psi and my secondary was not working at all. Afterwards, the primary ran 10 psi, and the secondary ran 9 psi (not 10 psi on secondary turbo is getting old, but 9 is still a lot better than 0).


Also, in the boost pattern (10-8-10) what does the middle number stand for? Is that the pressure during the switchover from primary to secondary?

artowar2

The last time a dealer touched my car was back in 1996. I had them replace the snake-head emblem on the rear bumper after some punk pried it off. They did a fine job, and if anyone wants a reference for a dealer that can put an emblem on your rear bumper without damaging something else on the car, just send me a PM

Since that time, it's been Tri-Point or me (mostly me for the last few years).

Now, to be fair to the punk that stole my emblem, I will say that he did a wonderful job-- no scratches, dents or left over adhesive...

johnchabin

iTrader: (2)

Yes.

Crionics

Hmm...I figured most of the 3g guys knew better than that. I have a 2g and have had good and bad dealer experiences - more bad than good. Needless to say, 6 months later, there is still a lot to learn.

HDP

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like some of the stuff I found while doing my silicone hose job, but I also had several bolts that the heads were JB welded back on to hide the fact that they were broken. The previous owner took this car to the dealer for EVERYTHING including changing wiper blades... I have the folder he gave me full of dealer receipts (more than 80) to prove it, so I know that's where all this b.s. was done.

Sprockett

By the way, I want to thank everyone who helped me through this whole ordeal. A lot of you gave me some very good advice, and even directed me to Banzai Racing. I have learned a lot from this experience. To those of you who have been following the story since day 1, I thank you for your attention, compassion, and helpful suggestions

Chris Sanders, if you are reading this, I want to thank you most of all for doing more in 3 hours than the dealership did in 5 months. You're a great guy to work with, and know your stuff.

Thanks again, guys -
Tyler

911GT2

God damn, I just read that again and came up with an idea. Come up with a nice lawsuit against the dealership, and then maybe Mazda will rethink its training program for techs, and we can all have someone close to home who actually knows how to work on our cars.

DomFD3S

Were any pictures taken to document the "problem areas"? Like the random bolts and loose vacuum lines?

Sprockett

no - I did not take any pictures. Now that I think about it, that probably would have been a good idea, but I do have a sheet with the problems written down and signed by Chris. I guess, if I needed to, I could just ask him nicely to write down a statement and sign it, but I think what I have is good enough. I also have the fact that I took it back to the dealer within 20 minutes of getting it back and told them something was wrong with the turbos. I told my dad this, too when I got home. That kind of shows that there was a problem right away, and that it couldn't have happened later (and like I would go out and switch all the hozes and vacuum lines anyway - nope.).

andy_guerriero

Sorry for your ordeal, man.

I'm originally from Frankenmuth, Saginaw, and Bay City, and I know Thelen has a terrible reputation in almost all aspects of service - even their sales department.

I wish I would have known you were going to take it there before you did.

I guess that's further proof that anyone considering taking their rotary in for service should get a recommendation from another rotary owner first.

xstacy7

I took my 7 to the dealership a while back because it wasn't starting and I didn't know anything about the RX-7 at the time. So I had it towed to Mazda and they kept it for a week. They said that they changed the plugs and the rear rotor was "bad", they even printed out a sheet saying this. So I come back to pick the car up and I see them trodding around in it (with two mechanics, like one wanted a ride or something) they pull out to the front and I walk back to the service department, all of the sudden I hear this hidious sound like a messed up old truck go flying by the back garage door, I'm like man that doesn't sound too good. I hear the sound again and I go look out the door....It's my 7!!! I tell them to stop and park it. I paid and got out of there. Ok, after I got it back it was really bad, it was limping around hesitating a whole lot. I took it to a shop the next day and they found this...1) There were 3 trailing spark plugs, and one leading, 2) there was one spark plug wire left totally off, and one loose. The mechanic I took it to put a new spark plug in (leading) and hooked all the plug wires up right, then the test drive...ahhh 10lbs at last! Now I'm doing the engine replacement and I found out why my second turbo was not running....ever, it was a vacuum line that was totally blown off the nipple, so long the nipple was rusted. It's gonna be nice when I get done, sooo nice!

TTurboXfd3s

sucks =/ and they MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD over price! they charged me $435 for an airbox! WTF! and i didn't even use it. what a waste!

Rated R1

That's not a snake head it is the toilet bowl. LOL