Whats the difference, how does it work, and what does it do?

Thanks

 

I'll be doing water/methanol(80%/20%) injection with a Aquamist 2s kit.

See this for details.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk

Ken

 

Doesn't it say not to use methanol (wood alcohol) but it's ok to use ethanol (grain alcohol) in the manual, or did I get these mixed up. I don't have my manual on hand.

 

where does the water spray to?

 

so how does the alcohol effect the intake charge compared with the water?

Is the install on the basic kit very involved?

I've been told that the stock IC is good for no more then 12 PSI. If I ran the water injection w/ a stock IC what would be a safe boost level? I'm planning on getting a better IC + water injection, but I'm just wondering.

 

Yes i 2 would like 2 know exactly how involved this kit is on the install side.. What all does the kit come with?

 

If you do a lot of digging at the Aquamist site you'll find an article that says with about 10-20% methanol in your water solution you effectively raise your octane rating a few points. This is valuable for our cars. I bought a 3-gallon fuel cell and it's in the back of the car. I will not use the washer fluid thing. I will be using water/methanol at varying rates of flow starting at 5psi. At high rpms and boost I will be probably dumping 320cc/min. Dave from KDR will be doing the programming of it with help from the vendor that is an exprt in this. He has used it on their Saab turbos for years. If you dig into the site it will show that it can cut input air temps as much as 70 degrees F. To me for every 10 degrees cooler the input air temp is that's 1-2% power improvement. So at high rpms and boost that's 7-14% power gain, that's worth a few $$$. Cleans your combustion chamber also. My car is only waiting on the AEM EMS which is not being delivered yet. If their delivery date is too far out I'll just go with my current ECU and upgrade next year. I bought 4 temp probes and a gauge to measure air temps at 4 locations. I will know what my SMIC is doing to cut input air temps and what the water is doing to help. I will also know the air temps coming out of my XS T04e single turbo kit. I will post all the results once I get my car back.

Ken 57 years young,
'94 white, pep, red leather,
mods: Street port and polished stage II, upgraded coolant seals, Hurley 3mm racing apex seals, XS T04E Turbo Kit, GReddy SMIC, Pettit ss resonated MP, Pettit ss cat-back, RP Racing fuel pump, Aquamist 2s water injection kit, under pulley kit(no air pump), Pettit short shifter kit, boost gauge, AEM EMS, 3-bar MAP Sensor, Profec B(12-2?psi), 1600cc injectors, LaBreck bushings, Evans coolant. http://nopistons.com/luv94rx7.html

 

i was reading the site and its not abundantly clear how to get a hold of one of the systems. it gives suppliers but none of them seem to be rotary oriented.
which system did you get LUV94RX7? i'm heading to KD on the first and would love to add one of these. prices look like $300-$500, how much does KD want for the install? its a little beyond me right now.
thanks for the great tip and info!!!

SYSTEM 1s consists of an ERL high-pressure electro-magnetic water pump, adjustable pressure switch, plus all the necessary hardware to form the basis of a starter kit.

SYSTEM 2s A fully-mappable water-injection system, pre-pressurized system, equipped with diagnostic circuitry, able to detect blocked water-jet and abnormal operation problems.

SYSTEM 2c Designed for use with third party Engine Management System. The kit provides all the necessary hardware to interface with the PWM output signal.

 

Currently I have the 2s kit. Bought it from Brad at I think KC Saab in Kansas City. It's listed on the Aquamist site.

Have to talk to Dave at KDR for the other info.

Ken

 

Does anybody know what the typical temp range is for the intake air at, say, the throttle body?

I ask because I want to look into modifying an existing water temp guage to read air intake charge. A HKS USA rep swears up and down that temp should be about 110 F and know this is NOT true of turbo cars. He says that existing water temp gauge range values fall outside that what I need to measure intake temp.

Any ideas/thoughts on monitoring air temps?

My Aquamist system will be used strictly for anit-det purposes - I'm not going to tune around it.

TIA!

 

Hey, that's a cool idea. I wouldn't mind adding an aftermarket water temp gauge if I could make my old one do something useful like this! Keep us updated if you make it work.

Also, what are the downsides to water injection? Seems like this is almost a too-good-to-be-true scenereo. If it was all it's cracked up to be, I would expect lots more people to be doing it. I talked to an old-timer (ok, my dad) and he said it's been around since the 60's but that it would crack pistons if you injected too much (like if it malfunctioned). Something similar happen to rotaries?

And how frequently would you be filling up the tank? If it's spraying all the time I would think you'd go through it a lot faster than something like NOS. Is the alcohol cheap, like maybe the type you'd buy in a hardware store, or is it special?

Sorry if this is all on their site, but it seems like everything I click on just gives me errors. Might be our firewall....

 

Yea i was wondering if you would have a switch to turn if off and on when you wanted to 2 override the fuel sys. that you hook it up 2.

 

The Aguamist system activates on boost, which you set. I'll probably set mine to a couple psi below max boost.

As for the temp gauge - I *think* the only thing that needs to be done is swap the fluid temp sensor for an air temp sensor, then figure out a way to adjust the output values of teh new sensor to match the old.

Doesn't the sensors work on the principle of changing resistance/impedance?

Looking at Omori's air intake guage (I know, I know - but I want all my gauges to match, ok? Besides, their's only available in 52mm http://www.omori-na.com/catalog/spec...intaketemp.htm ), the air intake values are close to that of water temp guages...

 

Gmonsen's kit allows the ECU(Haltech) to control the flow of water injection. He has not installed it yet. Wants 8-10% water to fuel ratio on boost. My expert recommends advantages on 5psi and up. My kit allows progamming the amount on injection varying on rpms and boost levels. In other words not much a low rpms and 5psi but alot at 15psi and 6k rpms. You get the idea. Would be nice if people already using water injection give there stories. I know one guy with a souped up FC credits water injection as a reason why he has not bown up his engine.

Ken

 

Yeah - the basic kit (which I have) injects based on boost pressure, the others are more sophisticated.

The aussies seem to swear by it, and its much more popular down under it appears....

 

Ya and the Aussie's modded motors seem to last longer.

Maybe water is one of their secrets.

Ken

 

The reason it can damage is that water is, for practical purposes, not compressable. Too much in a piston engine will result in holes in the pistons. For a rotary you'd probably blow the apex seal.

This shouldn't be a problem as long as the system is designed properly. The only real hazard I could see is if you have everything tuned expecting to get the cooling and then run out of water/alcohol.

I think that's why you never saw this type of set up in a vehicle sold to the masses. Most auto owners can't even change the oil as often as they should.

 

Another reason I using a 3 gallon fuel cell instead windshield washer joke.

Ken

 

just jumping in to be able to easily archive it myself latter.

 

I'm so glad I started such an informative post.

What about alcohol makes it good to mix with water for the injection system? I thought alcohol retained less heat before it evaporates when compared to water.

 

Use methanol. It boosts your octane a few points. If you dig into the aquamist site and read the articles you'll see methanol is the best with water.

Ken

 

I'm the guy that started the Group Buy on Aquamist about a year ago on the BIG LIST. We had about 8-10 buyers. We got about 30% off of list. I had hoped to have my car back by now and be able to post all it's benefits. As I said before I have all the air temp probes etc to measure everything. I'll post tons of stuff when I get my car which hopefully will be in the next couple of months. I'd have it now but I was hoping to get the new AEM EMS, but delivery is being delayed. If they can't deliver I'll go with what I have now and have my car in a month. I'm trying to be patient but not having my car for over a year is wearing my patience.

Ken 57 years young,
'94 white, pep, red leather,
mods: Street port and polished stage II, upgraded coolant seals, Hurley 3mm racing apex seals, XS T04E Turbo Kit, GReddy SMIC, Pettit ss resonated MP, Pettit ss cat-back, RP Racing fuel pump, Aquamist 2s water injection kit, under pulley kit(no air pump), Pettit short shifter kit, boost gauge, AEM EMS, 3-bar MAP Sensor, Profec B(12-2?psi), 1600cc injectors, LaBreck bushings, Evans coolant. http://nopistons.com/luv94rx7.html

 

Maybe once the results get out there we might want to get a group buy going.

Ken

 

That would be great! 30% off a $300 dollar kit. That makes it $210!

 

anybody have pics of it installed on an FD?