At what RPM does the boost come up after u go non-sequential?
04-24-05, 11:33 PM
#76
Rotary Enthusiast
Originally Posted by bfeito
I went non sequential recently, and was very worried about how the setup would effect my car. After driving it for a few months, I will say I am definately very happy with the mod. Disclaimer-If you are considering it, Do the full conversion, if not, it is a waist of time. The reason I went non-sequential is because I decided to switch to a Microtech LTX-8, which does not have the capabuility of running a sequential setup.
-I get full boost at about 3500 RPMs, with noticiable boost by about 2200-2500.
-There are many arguments against non-seq which have many valid points, I think the most important part your decision for the conversion is truly personal preference, and how you drive your car.
-When I first decided to go with it, I was scared shitless I would not like it, and it would be too laggy, mostly because of the opinions expressed on the forums. I found that while the opinions are based on fact, through "the forum effect" they have become very overexagerated.
-1. Not having good responce on highways, making passing difficult.
-Not sure about you guys, but my cruizing RPM on the highway is at about 2500-3000 RPMs. (70-80 MPH). At that RPM I find that my car has PLENTY of responce, in fact, it is quite nasty. Takes no time to get up full boost and fly. I really feel that the lack of tourqe is not really noticable after about 2500, I have enough boost at that time to do anything I need......................Brent
-I get full boost at about 3500 RPMs, with noticiable boost by about 2200-2500.
-There are many arguments against non-seq which have many valid points, I think the most important part your decision for the conversion is truly personal preference, and how you drive your car.
-When I first decided to go with it, I was scared shitless I would not like it, and it would be too laggy, mostly because of the opinions expressed on the forums. I found that while the opinions are based on fact, through "the forum effect" they have become very overexagerated.
-1. Not having good responce on highways, making passing difficult.
-Not sure about you guys, but my cruizing RPM on the highway is at about 2500-3000 RPMs. (70-80 MPH). At that RPM I find that my car has PLENTY of responce, in fact, it is quite nasty. Takes no time to get up full boost and fly. I really feel that the lack of tourqe is not really noticable after about 2500, I have enough boost at that time to do anything I need......................Brent
Originally Posted by bfeito
-I also agree that once the power comes on it is excellent, very smooth. When I man the car on a nice tight road I don't miss sequential at all, don't even notice its gone. I am generally above 3000 all the time when I am getting down, so the boost is instant and very powerful. I am usually tearing some serious *** out of that corner.
Not bashing well done NS like yours, just elaborating on what your statement suggests. It would be informative to compare "time to 10 psi" from no load in 3rd at 3100 rpm for a well set up NS, and my seq sys.
04-25-05, 12:27 AM
#77
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Originally Posted by Mahjik
Yes, but you can't really compare most larger aftermarket turbos to the stock twins running parallel. While a larger turbo may be making the same or less PSI at the same rpms, the CFM is going to be different (i.e. 10 PSI on a T-78 is not the same as 10 PSI on the stock twins).
Nah man, I meant to compare other stock cars' boost response to a non-seq FD. At what RPM do cars like Supras, Eclipses, 300ZX's, and MR2 (2nd gen) make full boost?
04-25-05, 12:41 AM
#78
Originally Posted by F0RSAKEN
Nah man, I meant to compare other stock cars' boost response to a non-seq FD. At what RPM do cars like Supras, Eclipses, 300ZX's, and MR2 (2nd gen) make full boost?
04-25-05, 01:41 PM
#79
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K2-I definately agree that no matter what a sequential system would certainly build boost alot quicker, no doubt. I would definately like to test the two against eachother and really get a solid comparison. The question is, how much more responce will you get with the sequential, and how much different it will feel? Could be little, could be alot, must get toghether to find out. you are in Delaware, which is not too far from me( northern VA), sometime we should get toghether and find out.
Brent
Brent
04-25-05, 02:23 PM
#80
Super Snuggles
The question is, how long does it take each configuration to reach an equal boost level (10 psi, for example). From a standing start, and from a rolling start at, say, 30 mph in 3rd gear and 60 mph in 5th.
Keep in mind that when non-sequential people talk about reaching full boost, they're usually not talking about only 10 psi. In my case, it was 15 psi. That's 15 psi well before the 4,500 rpm transition in a sequential system where it would start building to 15 psi.
I think you'll find that the spool time depends greatly on configuration, and that a non-sequential car with no pre-control gate, a downpipe, a midpipe, and a free flowing catback and intake will have no problem pegging the boost gauge at full boost in the 3,500 rpm range. Some sooner, some later, depending on how they're controlling boost, but 10 psi would come even sooner.
In my case, I was bleeding off almost all boost pressure from the wastegate actuator with an open bleed "line" (vacuum hose). The wastegate didn't start opening until much higher pressures, and I was limiting boost with an insert in the line (no valve), an enlarged wastegate, and some backpressure in the exhaust (RB twin tip). Boost response was incredibly good on my car. 0-150-0 repeatedly on a 0.6 mile access road good.
Keep in mind that when non-sequential people talk about reaching full boost, they're usually not talking about only 10 psi. In my case, it was 15 psi. That's 15 psi well before the 4,500 rpm transition in a sequential system where it would start building to 15 psi.
I think you'll find that the spool time depends greatly on configuration, and that a non-sequential car with no pre-control gate, a downpipe, a midpipe, and a free flowing catback and intake will have no problem pegging the boost gauge at full boost in the 3,500 rpm range. Some sooner, some later, depending on how they're controlling boost, but 10 psi would come even sooner.
In my case, I was bleeding off almost all boost pressure from the wastegate actuator with an open bleed "line" (vacuum hose). The wastegate didn't start opening until much higher pressures, and I was limiting boost with an insert in the line (no valve), an enlarged wastegate, and some backpressure in the exhaust (RB twin tip). Boost response was incredibly good on my car. 0-150-0 repeatedly on a 0.6 mile access road good.
Last edited by jimlab; 04-25-05 at 02:27 PM.
04-25-05, 05:20 PM
#81
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Wow Jim. that is quite a nasty setup, nicely done. I am getting 10 PSI at 3500 with only a downpipe, so I am anxious to see what happens when I throw on the cat-back on which is in my garage, but I am waiting on that until I get a high-flow or a midpipe. Can't boost more than 12.5 with my current setup, but I usually just keep it on 10 anyways (Turbo XS manual controller w/ switch). Good call on the inserts, a buddy of mine has a 300 ZXTT, and those guys use inserts all the time or "Boost Jets"(Thank God most seven owners don't try to make things sound cooler than they really are, lol)-When you say boost responce was good, when did you start getting really noticeable boost? Highly intrigued by your (old i take it?) very excellent setup.
Brent
Brent
Brent
Brent
04-25-05, 06:35 PM
#82
Rotary Enthusiast
Originally Posted by bfeito
K2-I definately agree that no matter what a sequential system would certainly build boost alot quicker, no doubt. I would definately like to test the two against eachother and really get a solid comparison. The question is, how much more responce will you get with the sequential, and how much different it will feel? Could be little, could be alot, must get toghether to find out. you are in Delaware, which is not too far from me( northern VA), sometime we should get toghether and find out.
Brent
Brent
Based on what I've heard, your NS low end response will improve significantly when you add a HFC and cat back. I've sampled the po' man's NS in 3rd bliping the rpms to lock in NS mode, and with intake and full exh (no MP), my car pulled strongly from 3500 rpm.
04-25-05, 08:15 PM
#83
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I don't see the point of arguing this. 2 equal drivers on a road course would attain nearly Identical lap times... with either set up. You have to know where your tourqe curve is in relation to your surrounding.
This is a preference thing... There is no right or wrong answer here. No test anyone does will make a difference or proove anything.
It is all driver preference
This is a preference thing... There is no right or wrong answer here. No test anyone does will make a difference or proove anything.
It is all driver preference
04-25-05, 08:17 PM
#84
Originally Posted by Josh T
I don't see the point of arguing this. 2 equal drivers on a road course would attain nearly Identical lap times... with either set up. You have to know where your tourqe curve is in relation to your surrounding.
This is a preference thing... There is no right or wrong answer here. No test anyone does will make a difference or proove anything.
It is all driver preference
This is a preference thing... There is no right or wrong answer here. No test anyone does will make a difference or proove anything.
It is all driver preference
Road course maybe.
Auto-x course no.
04-25-05, 08:51 PM
#86
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Originally Posted by Josh T
I don't see the point of arguing this. 2 equal drivers on a road course would attain nearly Identical lap times... with either set up. You have to know where your tourqe curve is in relation to your surrounding.
This is a preference thing... There is no right or wrong answer here. No test anyone does will make a difference or proove anything.
It is all driver preference
This is a preference thing... There is no right or wrong answer here. No test anyone does will make a difference or proove anything.
It is all driver preference
Oh, and watching a non-seq car at an auto-x would be painful!
05-01-05, 11:31 AM
#88
Rotary Freak
Other aspect of a non seq set up. How does it affect mileage? Assuming your driving a seq and non seq car thesame way.
I could imagine that, with a good tune on a non seq, mileage downtown would be better as you're not in boost every time you touch the gas pedal.
Anyone has any experience with that?
I could imagine that, with a good tune on a non seq, mileage downtown would be better as you're not in boost every time you touch the gas pedal.
Anyone has any experience with that?
05-01-05, 01:33 PM
#89
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Originally Posted by rynberg
Oh, and watching a non-seq car at an auto-x would be painful!
05-01-05, 01:35 PM
#90
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Originally Posted by Speedworks
Other aspect of a non seq set up. How does it affect mileage? Assuming your driving a seq and non seq car thesame way.
I could imagine that, with a good tune on a non seq, mileage downtown would be better as you're not in boost every time you touch the gas pedal.
Anyone has any experience with that?
I could imagine that, with a good tune on a non seq, mileage downtown would be better as you're not in boost every time you touch the gas pedal.
Anyone has any experience with that?
I wondered about that as well actually. On the freeway with my car as is (sequential), I cruise at 2.5k-3k in 5th gear, so even slight dips into the throttle bring on the boost. On a non-seq car, that wouldnt be the case (well, not to the same extent as seq), so theoretically youd get better gas milage, but less power for 5th gear passing, or accelerating up inclines etc....
05-01-05, 04:26 PM
#91
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by F0RSAKEN
On a non-seq car, that wouldnt be the case (well, not to the same extent as seq), so theoretically youd get better gas milage, but less power for 5th gear passing, or accelerating up inclines etc....
05-05-05, 12:26 PM
#92
Rotary Freak
If I could pay someone to re-covert my turbos back to Sequential operation with a boost pattern of 14.5-13-14.5 and maintain it...I'd do it. But until then, I'm sticking with my Po' man's NS turbos until they die.
Last edited by jpandes; 05-05-05 at 12:28 PM.
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