What else do I need to build a dual oilcooler setup
 

This is the list so far. I am not sure if im going with a thermostat because it adds about 120 bucks to the cost or building. Also I want to make sure I got the adapters right for the block: 18x1.5. Also what degree are the fittings on the oil coolers if im i have the fitting on top. I have there 150 degrees. Will that work or with the 120 degree be better.

21900erl - 19 Row Oil Cooler x 2
400100erl- 10 PeformOFlex Per Ft. 20 ft
585110erl- 10 adapter fitting for cooler x 4
809110 erl- 10 90 Degree tub swivel seal x 2
815010 erl- 10 150 degree swivelseal x 4
9919ffkerl- 10 AN to 18mm 1.5 adapter x 2

Will that do?

You absolutely should run a thermostat....my oil temps border on too cold WITH a thermostat (I have dual 25-row coolers).

Also, IMO, 19-row is probably a bit on the small side if they will not be ducted. If you are building from scratch, I would go with 25-row coolers.

Also, your part numbers indicate "narrow" Earls coolers. Those aren't big enough, you should use the "wide" coolers (model numbers beginning with 4).

You most definitely do not want to use 120-deg fittings, it's too shallow.

Yeah, my oil temps when highway cruising in ~70F weather are 140F with a thermostat. They would be way too cold without one.

I think I have a 120 degree fitting at the oil filter pedestal. There are two straight fittings on the rear side of the thermostat. The rest of the fittings are all 90s. Here's my web page about the CWR kit:
http://maxcooper.com/rx7/parts_info/...lers/index.htm

-Max

Max, he is trying to orient the coolers with the fittings up, so the 90-degs won't work...:)

Thanks a lot for your responses.
The reason why I choose the 19 row becuase they are going to be ducted, im pretty good with fiberglass and i have an idea how to make it.

Also as for the thermostat, I live in miami and the car is street driven every day. With the temps here in miami i didn't think i would worry about it getting too cold, it almost never gets cool. But now I'll consider the thermo a little more.

And for the fittings on the block will thost be 90* or 120*.

Thanks again.

Miami or not, you should definitely run a t-stat.

True story...even twin 19-rows will be enough to over-cool the oil when its 60-65F outside there in January.

Living in New Orleans, I can tell you a thermostat is needed. It's $89.99 ffrom Racer Wholesale.

Jack

Mocal 19 Row -10 AN Oil Coolers $139x2

-10 AN stainless $109.95 (20 feet)

Fittings $69.99

Mocal Oil Thermostat $89.99

Russell M18X1.5 AN Adpater $4.89X2

I need to add a thermostat to mine. Been blocking the passenger during the night.

Just wondering if someone has info on the proper way to cut these stainless steel braided lines. When I lost my last engine the line popped off at the fitting.

You can use bolt cutters. I used craftsman scissors that use a razor blade and then the bottom part is flat metal. You can get a cheaper replica from harbor frieght tools (in an ugly bright orange). After that I used a dremel and a stone to grind off any threads that poked outwards.

To put the fittings on I used teflon tape wraped once on the edge and then some mm oil over that to slip it in easily.

There's nothing wrong with dual 19rows. I have a 2nd 25row for the passenger side and it's very big. I may not even hook up the second cooler. I don't see it being needed except for track only car.

Another thing to add on your list is an oil temperature gauge.

Jack

And adapter with ports for oil pressure and temperature.

what do you mean an "adapter?"

You'll need one of
these or one of these .

If you go with an earl's oil thermostat it has 3 1/8" NPT ports, perfect for oil temp and pressure. No need for adaptors or extra fittings that way.

We should make a sticky of this thread for people who want to upgrade their oil cooler! Good info!

for the 18mm X 1.5 fittings on the oil pedestal and front cover are crush washers needed?

TIA

Tape off where you're going to cut with electrical tape and use a cut off wheel or a hacksaw.
I purchased the Gotham duel oil cooler kit from a member and would like to know how you guys mount them. I know you have to fab brackets, how do they look?
Just noticed this is an old thread. Question still stands though......anyone?

Gotham now sells the bracket kit if you are interested. Not sure the specs on it.

Thanks bro! Will give them a call.

Here is my parts list for an Aeroquip/Mocal dual oil cooler set-up from Racer Parts Wholesale
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com

Aeroquip Socketless Hose
FBV1000
$3.51 ea. x20ft $70.20

FCM1514 (used for the back of the T-stat)
-10 St. Hose End
$5.65 ea. x2 $11.30

FCM1534
-10 90 Hose End (1x-front cover, 2x-t-stat, 4x-coolers)
$18.77 ea. x7 $131.39

FCM1544 (used off the oil pedestal)
-10 120 Hose End
$21.17 ea. x1 $21.17

adapter (front cover and oil pedestal)
FCM2245 metric adapter -10AN to 18mm X 1.5
$8.82 ea. x2 $17.64

MOC25210 (25 Row)
Mocal Cooler
$189.05 ea. x2 $378.10

MOCAL Theromostat (180 degree)
MOC10AN
$89.99 ea. x1 $89.99

GRAND TOTAL = $720 (just need to fab mounting brackets (or use the ones Mocal sells $25ea. x 4) and no ducts required with coolers this size)
Using the AQP hose not only reduces cost, ease of assembly increases while the tools required drops to almost nothing.

Another reason I choose to go with an oil cooler set-up of this size...I use a SMIC, which sits on top of my radiator. Oil cooling can account for as much as 40+% of rotary engine cooling...if my coolant doesn't have to dump as much heat, my poor SMIC won't get soaked as much.

Could anyone please draw a pic of where you would put the T-Stat in all these. All i know is that the oil from the oil pan will go to the oil cooler 1 and then to oil cooler 2 before it goes to the oil filter so basically its a loop but where does the T-Stat come in to play? And how would you go about making it work?

You put the t-stat in the line between the pan outlet and the first cooler.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...alclrTstat.jpg

there isn't a pan outlet...it's actually on the front cover.

the purple arrow is the path when the oil isn't up to temp.

Correct, I was just being short. :) Nice diagram. I'll be linking this and a few other threads to the FAQ thread.

n/m

wow. really nice diagram

I am currently running RE 25 row Dual Oil Coolers without the thermostat, as this is how I installed it when I put in my rebuilt. (I'm at 1,300 miles on my break-in) Upon startup, it takes about 5 minutes for the oil temps to reach 140 degrees F and it's a pretty choppy startup. The normal operating temps that I see are 160-180 F. The maximum temp that I see is 220 F. Next time I go diving into my engine bay, I'll put the thermostat in, but until then, how harmful is it to my engine?

220 is pretty high. i wouldnt be comfortable with temps like that

What makes you say that 220F is too hot for oil?

Here is some oil temp info I found in a Mazda competition preparation manual, dated 1980. Note that this is for a non-turbo 12A peripheral port motor in a racing environment:
Warm the engine up at an idle speed of 2000-2500 RPM, until the oil temp reaches 160F (70C).
Recommended oil temperature (oil pan): 195-230F (90-110C).
Max oil temperature: 250F (120C).
Recommended coolant temperature (outlet side): 160-195F (70-90C).
Max coolant temperature: 205F (95C).



-s-

Every oil cooler setup I have ever seen on here has the inlets/outlets either on the bottom or the top of the oil cooler. Mounting on the bottom means that you run the risk of smacking the fittings off. Running on the top isn't as bad but it means that you can't drain all the oil from the coolers when you change your oil. So the question is this......instead of running a short and wide oil cooler....why not run a tall and narrow oil cooler and mount it 90 degrees such that the inlets and outlets are on the side? Seems like it would be the best of both worlds. Why isn't this done? DamonB....you must know. Are oil coolers even commonly available in this configuration? Just curious......

On the subject of oil coolers. I have a second driver side oil cooler laying around. If I use this and plumb it up as a second, do I want to remove the T-stat since there will be one in the driver side? I don't mean to thread jack but it looks like the question has been mostly answered..

last winter (wisconsin) i acquired a driver's side oil cooler and fixtured it to fit the pass side. i am very happy w the setup. i adapted the pass side duct, straightened the fins on both and for approx $200 of fittings and aeroquip line have what i think is an excellent setup. i did not remove either thermostat. i did put some SS mesh on the face of both coolers after seeing how the fins get mashed.

howard coleman

How are you hitting 220F? The hottest I've ever seen in street driving with my RE dual 25-rows is about 200-205F, and that was from sitting in stop-and-go traffic in hot weather. It takes driving on the track for several minutes for my oil temps to get in the 210-215F range. The hottest I've ever seen was 235F oil temps, and that was with my water temp also hitting 235F (running Streets of Willow on a 103F day).

I hit 220 F when I let the car sit, idling for about 10 minutes. (Like if i run in the store to grab some shit) Once I get back on the gas and start driving ,the temps drop to 160-175 ish. If I'm cruisin the highway, temps are 140-150. The highest temp I've seen while driving is about 180 F..I was waiting for you to chime in Rynberg, you always make good points....Lemme know what you think...TIA....Ben

You leave the car idling for 10 minutes to run into a store? Bad idea! Completely aside from the theft issues, you are just heat soaking the poor car by doing that. Just turn the car off. :)

Theft?....NRG Quick release hub lock! HAHA.....From now on, I'll just turn the car off. I need to install my turbo timer this weekend!...Thanks for your input Rynberg.....Peace

Won't make any difference. When you drain the oil you're only draining out what happens to be in the pan at the time. Unless the coolers are mounted really high gravity is never going to empty their contents back into the pan anyhow.

All the coolers people see are merely miscellaneous models; they're not built for a specific application. There's absolutely no reason you couldn't weld over the stock ports in an aftermarket cooler and then weld new bungs onto the tanks in a safer and more convenient orientation for your specific application, but I've never seen anyone smart enough to do it that way even though there's all of these FD specific "kits" offered. There's nothing FD specific about any of the oil cooler kits I've ever seen save Crooked Willow and even then it was just the ducts. Nothing was special about the harware at all (and their method of mounting the thermostat was abysmal).

A TT is a waste of money. Not necessary on these cars.

At least with the RE kit, the hoses were all the correct lengths, the proper angle fittings were included, specific brackets were included, and Chuck had custom fittings to go between the lines from the front cover/filter pedestal to the AN lines.

As far as oil draining, you can blow through the SS lines and it will get most of the oil out.

DamonB....Where would you suggest mounting the thermostat? Why is it "abysmal?" HAHA....Please elaborate....

^ Crooked Willow hung the thermostat right off an elbow fitting screwed into the front cover oil bung. The thermostat was not supported; it just hung out in space from the fitting. This meant that the weight of the thermostat and its hoses was hanging off of a swivel fitting not designed to support that weight. At minimum vibration over time would tend to make the thermostat swivel around. At best the fitting could loosen and leak, weeping oil. At worst the fitting could fatigue and crack, instantly dumping all your oil.

Bolt the thermostat to something solid and dress any flexible oil lines with plenty of Adel clamps so there is no chance of them moving around and chafing through themselves or any other hoses or electrical nearby. Keep in mind the engine moves slightly in its mounts. Leave enough slack in the hoses where they connect to the engine so that they are not stressed.

http://www.wilemanaircraft.com/cat_i...el%20clamp.jpg

Exactly, I'm surprised they did that. The RE kit connects to the ends of the two soft lines right in front of the engine. Although there is no mounting provision for the t-stat in the RE kit either. You pretty much zip-tie it to the top of the sway bar. Although mine has never moved or done anything bad in 3 years.

What are the dimensions on the Mocal 25 row?

This is kinda crazy but would an Earl's cooler with 25 rows and a 14 x 7.75 core work?

The RE kit uses the Earls coolers....correct size is the 25-row "wide" part number. Part #42510ERL I believe.

Wow thanks, did you actually have that memorized? That core is 13x7.75 so...using the infallible logic of bigger is better, 14x7.75 would be better.

If you can provide enough ducted air to the larger cooler....

Earl's doesn't make a 14-inch wide 25-row cooler. The part # I listed has a core of about 9-10" wide. They do make a double-width cooler that has a 14-inch core. It wouldn't fit so don't try it. Use the part # I provided, trust me. :)

It seems like they do, unless this is the double wide you mentioned:
summit link

Part #: 82510ERL

Total size is 15.25 x 7.75

I'm not fitting it in the stock locations, I've got about 20in width. Definitley don't want to go over 8in tall.

Yep, that's the one. You going center mount somehow? The 42510ERL is about as big as you can fit in the stock locations (width and depth, you can go up to 34-row tall with compromises).