Water Injection Installed
04-20-04, 09:49 PM
#1
Water Injection Installed
So I finally got around to installing the Aquamist 2s water injection unit I bought 6 months ago 
All Pics can be seen here
http://www.goldenautomart.com/WI.htm
Special thanks to my buddy Rzograbian who spent countless hours helping me install, diagnose, and finally get it running.
Despite what you may have heard, the actual tuning of the 2s unit is very simple. With that said however, the biggest challenge was "engineering" a clean looking install, and deciphering the directions that were obviously written by an engineer.
After a failed attempt to make a customized pump-mounting platform where the battery used to be, it was decided that we would just use the Cruise Control housing to mount the pump.
In the end this kept the install very simple. (Just for clarification though, The CC bracket was our initial plan, but someone had a too much Starbucks that morning, and got to thinking
)
We cut and used a small piece of sheet metal to cover up where the Cruise Control cable used to be. The unit was then painted black, and the pump was mounted.
I wanted to use the windshield wiper bottle for the water tank. Again, this was with the idea of keeping it simple. However, this part was not in the directions and turned out to be one of the biggest issues with the entire install. It took us 2 electronic geniuses forever to figure out how to make it work.
First the wiper bottle pump had to be used to prime the main Aquamist pump. Second, a pulse extender had to be made. This is a small electronic device that triggers the wiper bottle pump to work for a couple of extra seconds. This primes the Aquamist pump, and allows you to mount the water tank below the high-pressure pump. You can't really see any of this stuff, but trust me it’s there. : )
Even though the 2s system has the ability to build a 3d map, I decided to go for a simple 2d set up. For this I used a pressure switch they provide. (This is the 11th pic down from the top) I mounted this where that frame stabilizer thingy used to be To do a 3d map, you just need to need to tap into the map sensor.
After Roman and I got everything loosely in place, it was then taken all apart. So that I could cut all the wires to length and wrap every thing that was exposed. I also wired in an emergency on off switch in the cabin, and installed the yellow system fault lamp in my boost gauge pod. (This is the 14th pic)
More to follow
All Pics can be seen here
http://www.goldenautomart.com/WI.htm
Special thanks to my buddy Rzograbian who spent countless hours helping me install, diagnose, and finally get it running.
Despite what you may have heard, the actual tuning of the 2s unit is very simple. With that said however, the biggest challenge was "engineering" a clean looking install, and deciphering the directions that were obviously written by an engineer.
After a failed attempt to make a customized pump-mounting platform where the battery used to be, it was decided that we would just use the Cruise Control housing to mount the pump.
In the end this kept the install very simple. (Just for clarification though, The CC bracket was our initial plan, but someone had a too much Starbucks that morning, and got to thinking
) We cut and used a small piece of sheet metal to cover up where the Cruise Control cable used to be. The unit was then painted black, and the pump was mounted.
I wanted to use the windshield wiper bottle for the water tank. Again, this was with the idea of keeping it simple. However, this part was not in the directions and turned out to be one of the biggest issues with the entire install. It took us 2 electronic geniuses forever to figure out how to make it work.
First the wiper bottle pump had to be used to prime the main Aquamist pump. Second, a pulse extender had to be made. This is a small electronic device that triggers the wiper bottle pump to work for a couple of extra seconds. This primes the Aquamist pump, and allows you to mount the water tank below the high-pressure pump. You can't really see any of this stuff, but trust me it’s there. : )
Even though the 2s system has the ability to build a 3d map, I decided to go for a simple 2d set up. For this I used a pressure switch they provide. (This is the 11th pic down from the top) I mounted this where that frame stabilizer thingy used to be
To do a 3d map, you just need to need to tap into the map sensor. After Roman and I got everything loosely in place, it was then taken all apart.
So that I could cut all the wires to length and wrap every thing that was exposed. I also wired in an emergency on off switch in the cabin, and installed the yellow system fault lamp in my boost gauge pod. (This is the 14th pic)More to follow
04-20-04, 09:51 PM
#2
The system is up and running, and I am injecting water. However, I do not know how much, as I do not have any gauges to monitor the flow of water. I bought the DDS system that Aquamist sells, and I am currently working on installing it. (Another complete pain in the *** to engineer and install cleanly.)
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/806-425/806-425.html
This unit is pretty trick, and can tell me exactly how many ML of water per minute that I am injecting at any given time. It also has the ability to cut boost immediately if is senses water flowing below a specified amount. I did not buy the additional piece for this function yet. But, if I get comfortable enough with the reliability of the system I “MAY” tune for it. Not until I am absolutely certain it is safe to do though.
One more thing I may do is install an intake temp gauge at the Greddy elbow. I already measure intake temp with my PFC at the turbo inlet. I figure if I Install an additional sensor at the elbow, I will be able to view temp drop across the entire system. This is still a little ways down the road.
Anyways, I wanted to thank all you guys for giving me the courage to try something I have never done before, and also thank my friend Roman for help with getting the system installed and working.
Okay, let the questions/flaming begin
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/806-425/806-425.html
This unit is pretty trick, and can tell me exactly how many ML of water per minute that I am injecting at any given time. It also has the ability to cut boost immediately if is senses water flowing below a specified amount. I did not buy the additional piece for this function yet. But, if I get comfortable enough with the reliability of the system I “MAY” tune for it. Not until I am absolutely certain it is safe to do though.
One more thing I may do is install an intake temp gauge at the Greddy elbow. I already measure intake temp with my PFC at the turbo inlet. I figure if I Install an additional sensor at the elbow, I will be able to view temp drop across the entire system. This is still a little ways down the road.
Anyways, I wanted to thank all you guys for giving me the courage to try something I have never done before, and also thank my friend Roman for help with getting the system installed and working.
Okay, let the questions/flaming begin
04-20-04, 10:19 PM
#6
Originally posted by Kento
Nice job. Should be interesting to see how it works, once you determine how much flow you're getting.
Will you be doing any tuning to compensate?
Nice job. Should be interesting to see how it works, once you determine how much flow you're getting.
Will you be doing any tuning to compensate?
04-20-04, 10:27 PM
#7
I was thinking of buying one but now that i look at your pics and read your post, im sure that it would be well worth it to buy. AWESOME ******* JOB!!!! thats all i have to say. im sure me and you will be talking in the future, as i will be installing one as well..
Props to you!!!!!
Props to you!!!!!
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04-20-04, 10:27 PM
#8
Originally posted by Want2race
Your a better man than I... I couldnt even understand the MF2 instructions.. so I sold it
Your a better man than I... I couldnt even understand the MF2 instructions.. so I sold it
I actually joined the turbo ice water injection forum, and was emailing Aquamist on a pretty regular basis. They were both of tremendous value. Also my buddy rzograbian was the wiring genius
04-20-04, 10:31 PM
#9
Rotary Freak
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Wow David, you are speaking like an electronic engineer
well, it was really fun but took a long time. our biggest mistake was to try and make a custom bracket to mount everything....... we spent the whole day (6-8 hours) and trashed it that night!
well, it was really fun but took a long time. our biggest mistake was to try and make a custom bracket to mount everything....... we spent the whole day (6-8 hours) and trashed it that night!
04-21-04, 12:10 PM
#15
Faster
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Great install. Please keep us updated on performance, intake temps, etc etc. Your's is tapped MUCH closer to the IC than mine. I'm curious to see if gains are different.
On another note, paint those CF inserts for your sleek lights to match the body
On another note, paint those CF inserts for your sleek lights to match the body
04-21-04, 12:32 PM
#18
DETH TRP
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I can't believe you guys tune for water injection. That's worse than filling up with 87 and adding octane booster. If someone would suggest that they would get flamed.
Water Injection is not the answer, tuning is. I may be new to the rotary scene but have been researching turbo systems for a while. A good book to memorize is Corky Bell's Maximum Boost.
A lot of guys on here don't even trust that their oil metering pump works well enough so they premix oil. You are trusting an electric water pump. I know you say thaty there are sensors to cut boost if the water isn't there but the point is it's a band aid fix.
I can see using it as a safeguard, but tune without it.
Water Injection is not the answer, tuning is. I may be new to the rotary scene but have been researching turbo systems for a while. A good book to memorize is Corky Bell's Maximum Boost.
A lot of guys on here don't even trust that their oil metering pump works well enough so they premix oil. You are trusting an electric water pump. I know you say thaty there are sensors to cut boost if the water isn't there but the point is it's a band aid fix.
I can see using it as a safeguard, but tune without it.
04-21-04, 12:55 PM
#19
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Which is why I asked "to compensate" (and why I'd rather use a good IC setup to cool the intake charge). If you don't take advantage of the water injection's cooler chamber temps, all you're really doing is displacing volume that could be taken by more fuel/air mixture.
04-21-04, 01:00 PM
#20
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Then it shouldn't be used. Why not throw a bottle of octane booster in instead? It'd be safer than relying on a water pump.
$5000+ engine relying on a $75 water pump? Use the money for the water injection kit to buy dyno time.
edit: I see what you mean now Kento. I totally agree. To compensate for the reduction in air fuel he would need to tune for the water, which is unsafe.
Also why not sell your current IC/ radiator setup and water pump, and buy a V-mount from rotary extreme? That'll get you cooler charges and a cooler engine than a FM setup.
$5000+ engine relying on a $75 water pump? Use the money for the water injection kit to buy dyno time.
edit: I see what you mean now Kento. I totally agree. To compensate for the reduction in air fuel he would need to tune for the water, which is unsafe.
Also why not sell your current IC/ radiator setup and water pump, and buy a V-mount from rotary extreme? That'll get you cooler charges and a cooler engine than a FM setup.
Last edited by 4CN Air; 04-21-04 at 01:02 PM.
04-21-04, 01:58 PM
#22
Originally posted by 4CN Air
Then it shouldn't be used. Why not throw a bottle of octane booster in instead? It'd be safer than relying on a water pump.
$5000+ engine relying on a $75 water pump? Use the money for the water injection kit to buy dyno time.
edit: I see what you mean now Kento. I totally agree. To compensate for the reduction in air fuel he would need to tune for the water, which is unsafe.
Also why not sell your current IC/ radiator setup and water pump, and buy a V-mount from rotary extreme? That'll get you cooler charges and a cooler engine than a FM setup.
Then it shouldn't be used. Why not throw a bottle of octane booster in instead? It'd be safer than relying on a water pump.
$5000+ engine relying on a $75 water pump? Use the money for the water injection kit to buy dyno time.
edit: I see what you mean now Kento. I totally agree. To compensate for the reduction in air fuel he would need to tune for the water, which is unsafe.
Also why not sell your current IC/ radiator setup and water pump, and buy a V-mount from rotary extreme? That'll get you cooler charges and a cooler engine than a FM setup.
Second, I am already running pig rig as a "band aid" as you put it, about 10.5 to 1 under boost. So theoritically I could tune about half a point higher, still be in a very safe zone, and get more power because of the water injection.
I am also debating wheather to run with a 50/50 water to alcohol mix when I do lean the system out to counter act the water that is displacing fuel.
Again all of these things are dependant on the reliablitiy of the system, and the safeguards that can be put into place, to ensure the reliability of the system.
04-21-04, 02:14 PM
#23
Faster
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Kento,
You should probably read a lot more of the water injection threads. WI isn't just used to cool the intake charge. There are multiple benefits that are hard to qualify, other than "cooler intake temps". Of course, there are proponents and opponents it, like all things.
But, there are also benefits to plugs, fuel economy and a reduction in carbon build up, not to mention cooler intake temps.
You do have the ability to "tune" for it if you wish. In my opinion, it's safer than some of the other common place mods we all use.
My WI comes on @ 10 lbs. @ 14 lbs, I had a geyser spewing out of my boost leak where my stock elbow met the throttle body. I still managed to put down 323 rwhp with 2 boost leaks on my 4th dyno pull. My A/F was extremely rich also, 10.5/1. Without question I am not optimized, I also don't subscribe to the "WI" lean theory. Quite frankly, because I don't know enough about tuning. But, I'm willing to give up a few HP for the preventative and other benefits WI can provide.
My apologies if directed toward the wrong person.
You should probably read a lot more of the water injection threads. WI isn't just used to cool the intake charge. There are multiple benefits that are hard to qualify, other than "cooler intake temps". Of course, there are proponents and opponents it, like all things.
But, there are also benefits to plugs, fuel economy and a reduction in carbon build up, not to mention cooler intake temps.
You do have the ability to "tune" for it if you wish. In my opinion, it's safer than some of the other common place mods we all use.
My WI comes on @ 10 lbs. @ 14 lbs, I had a geyser spewing out of my boost leak where my stock elbow met the throttle body. I still managed to put down 323 rwhp with 2 boost leaks on my 4th dyno pull. My A/F was extremely rich also, 10.5/1. Without question I am not optimized, I also don't subscribe to the "WI" lean theory. Quite frankly, because I don't know enough about tuning. But, I'm willing to give up a few HP for the preventative and other benefits WI can provide.
My apologies if directed toward the wrong person.
Originally posted by Kento
Which is why I asked "to compensate" (and why I'd rather use a good IC setup to cool the intake charge). If you don't take advantage of the water injection's cooler chamber temps, all you're really doing is displacing volume that could be taken by more fuel/air mixture.
Which is why I asked "to compensate" (and why I'd rather use a good IC setup to cool the intake charge). If you don't take advantage of the water injection's cooler chamber temps, all you're really doing is displacing volume that could be taken by more fuel/air mixture.
04-21-04, 03:39 PM
#24
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally posted by FD_Newb_1974
Kento,
You should probably read a lot more of the water injection threads. WI isn't just used to cool the intake charge. There are multiple benefits that are hard to qualify, other than "cooler intake temps". Of course, there are proponents and opponents it, like all things.
But, there are also benefits to plugs, fuel economy and a reduction in carbon build up, not to mention cooler intake temps.
You do have the ability to "tune" for it if you wish. In my opinion, it's safer than some of the other common place mods we all use.
My WI comes on @ 10 lbs. @ 14 lbs, I had a geyser spewing out of my boost leak where my stock elbow met the throttle body. I still managed to put down 323 rwhp with 2 boost leaks on my 4th dyno pull. My A/F was extremely rich also, 10.5/1. Without question I am not optimized, I also don't subscribe to the "WI" lean theory. Quite frankly, because I don't know enough about tuning. But, I'm willing to give up a few HP for the preventative and other benefits WI can provide.
My apologies if directed toward the wrong person.
Kento,
You should probably read a lot more of the water injection threads. WI isn't just used to cool the intake charge. There are multiple benefits that are hard to qualify, other than "cooler intake temps". Of course, there are proponents and opponents it, like all things.
But, there are also benefits to plugs, fuel economy and a reduction in carbon build up, not to mention cooler intake temps.
You do have the ability to "tune" for it if you wish. In my opinion, it's safer than some of the other common place mods we all use.
My WI comes on @ 10 lbs. @ 14 lbs, I had a geyser spewing out of my boost leak where my stock elbow met the throttle body. I still managed to put down 323 rwhp with 2 boost leaks on my 4th dyno pull. My A/F was extremely rich also, 10.5/1. Without question I am not optimized, I also don't subscribe to the "WI" lean theory. Quite frankly, because I don't know enough about tuning. But, I'm willing to give up a few HP for the preventative and other benefits WI can provide.
My apologies if directed toward the wrong person.
You don't have to "tune leaner" (I think there's a misconception here with regards to tuning to compensate for WI). WI's lower combustion chamber temps allow you to increase boost, yielding more power. Tuning leaner will only put less fuel/air mixture into the combustion chamber, that was already being displaced by the water.
This is not meant as a slam on Dave's WI setup; I was thinking of installing an Aquamist system myself at one time, but the cost and complexity of installing one put me off.
Last edited by Kento; 04-21-04 at 03:45 PM.
