VIOLENT bucking/hesitation at WOT
03-25-08, 08:27 AM
#1
VIOLENT bucking/hesitation at WOT
Well, ive got a new problem! yay!
the UIM was off about a month ago. i removed double throttle completly. as well as sanded/polished some inside of the UIM. dont know if it matters, but i believe my AWS hose, going to the elbow, is also removed.
now, i can not go WOT in 1st gear. it will accelearate briefly, and then VIOLENTLY start to buck. of course i get off of it at that point. If i switch quickly to 2nd and WOT, same results. unusable/violent hesitation. however, if go to second smoothly, and allow it to stay in second more a few seconds, i can go WOT and it pulls like crazy just fine.
last symptom, WOT in 4th at high RPM,say 5500 or more, i get similiar hesitation, but no where near as violent, but still unusable.
ive searched and i believe it may be my TPS. especially since it started after i messed with UIM.
what do you guys think? other possibilties?
the UIM was off about a month ago. i removed double throttle completly. as well as sanded/polished some inside of the UIM. dont know if it matters, but i believe my AWS hose, going to the elbow, is also removed.
now, i can not go WOT in 1st gear. it will accelearate briefly, and then VIOLENTLY start to buck. of course i get off of it at that point. If i switch quickly to 2nd and WOT, same results. unusable/violent hesitation. however, if go to second smoothly, and allow it to stay in second more a few seconds, i can go WOT and it pulls like crazy just fine.
last symptom, WOT in 4th at high RPM,say 5500 or more, i get similiar hesitation, but no where near as violent, but still unusable.
ive searched and i believe it may be my TPS. especially since it started after i messed with UIM.
what do you guys think? other possibilties?
03-25-08, 09:39 AM
#3
Full Member
You may have damaged some of the vacuum lines that go thru the intake manifold that control the turbo's if you still have the factory twins with the rat's nest.
03-25-08, 10:07 AM
#5
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Sounds like the TPS out of adjustment, or other electrical problem.
Violent bucking is usually a sign of an electrical/electronic control issue or in extreme cases, a fuel system problem. Fuel cut occurs at a set boost level/rpm with the stock ECU, so it would be even more likely to happen when he "stays in second for more than a few seconds, then goes WOT". Stock turbo system problems don't result in violent bucking.
Violent bucking is usually a sign of an electrical/electronic control issue or in extreme cases, a fuel system problem. Fuel cut occurs at a set boost level/rpm with the stock ECU, so it would be even more likely to happen when he "stays in second for more than a few seconds, then goes WOT". Stock turbo system problems don't result in violent bucking.
03-25-08, 10:16 AM
#6
apexi intakes,and downpipe, blitz sbc id boost controller. its a mazda reman with about 6k miles on it, turbos were replaced at the same time,running stock sequential. virtually all of my rats nest has been replaced with silicone hose also.
problem was happening before boost conrtoller. I dont think its fuel cut, because im not seeing quite 10 psi on my first turbo in any gear. i have not got the blitz completly dialed in yet.
does fuel cut happen at 10.6psi in high rpms? the blitz unit never gets that high i dont think. i will have to check into it some more.
the most violent and for sure occurance is in first gear.
problem was happening before boost conrtoller. I dont think its fuel cut, because im not seeing quite 10 psi on my first turbo in any gear. i have not got the blitz completly dialed in yet.
does fuel cut happen at 10.6psi in high rpms? the blitz unit never gets that high i dont think. i will have to check into it some more.
the most violent and for sure occurance is in first gear.
03-25-08, 10:20 AM
#7
Full Member
I've seen this happen MANY times; overboosting causes fuel cut, and the stock twins will put out over twenty psi before the bearings explode. That's well over fuel cut parameters. TPS out of adjustment won't cause violent bucking, and idle would be slightly rougher than normal or fluxating depending on how off it it. Quite simply, if the TPS was removed to do some polishing or cleaning, it should have been reinstalled exactly where it was (the markings from the screws). At any rate, i'd be focusing on fuel cut rather than electrical.
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03-25-08, 10:29 AM
#8
^ my idle is a little high at about 1100rpms, sometimes it will settle a little lower than that. but its not hunting, or rough at all. so maybe not tps?
oh! i forgot to mention that accelerating in a normal drving fashion in 1st will often cause a bucking/hesitation as well, but no where near as violent. but i have experienced similiar feeling in all manual vehicles ive owned, in first gear using slow, almost consistent acceleration, they often jump/buck a little.
oh! i forgot to mention that accelerating in a normal drving fashion in 1st will often cause a bucking/hesitation as well, but no where near as violent. but i have experienced similiar feeling in all manual vehicles ive owned, in first gear using slow, almost consistent acceleration, they often jump/buck a little.
03-25-08, 11:07 AM
#9
Racecar - Formula 2000
03-25-08, 12:20 PM
#10
this might be an unrelated question, but, looking at that chart makes me wonder.
i was working on something unrelated to this problem and i got a 15 psi spike, and it woulvde keep right on going had i not got off of it as quick as i could. no fuel cut then?
but thats not important at the moment, im just concerned about this craziness. i cant beat my buddys evo from a dig without 1st gear! lol
i was working on something unrelated to this problem and i got a 15 psi spike, and it woulvde keep right on going had i not got off of it as quick as i could. no fuel cut then?
but thats not important at the moment, im just concerned about this craziness. i cant beat my buddys evo from a dig without 1st gear! lol
03-25-08, 12:46 PM
#11
Racecar - Formula 2000
Fuel Cut
There is a time-delay built into the stock ECU before fuel cut will occur. Spikes (and 1st-gear boost) usually are too quick to get a fuel-cut response from the ECU.
Dave
Dave
03-25-08, 01:43 PM
#13
Racecar - Formula 2000
Otherwise, I don't have much in the way of intelligent input on this.
Dave
03-25-08, 03:26 PM
#14
Two possibilities that I've personally experienced (and never enjoyed):
1) Drop in fuel pressure due to a fuel pump problem
2) Injectors not firing properly
Both will feel violent if you don't let off quick enough to prevent the drivetrain from slapping.
Dave
1) Drop in fuel pressure due to a fuel pump problem
2) Injectors not firing properly
Both will feel violent if you don't let off quick enough to prevent the drivetrain from slapping.
Dave
03-25-08, 05:45 PM
#17
Yea, when I had some problems with my ignition I had some pretty viloent bucking, and misfiring. Check that you didnt leave a ground for the coils, or anything ignition related off. After that, I would spec out your coils and see if theyre still good.
03-26-08, 06:08 AM
#18
well i started changing my plugs and wires yesterday.....to be honest, ive never changed a spark plug on any vehicle before.lol. but after crawling around down there, i see how simple it is....well....if i had the right tools!
i only had a crescent wrench at hand....that SUCKS. i gave up after getting 2 of them in, along with their respective wires replaced.
this whole engine only has around 6-7kmiles on it, so i got a feeling it wasnt these wires. if i were to clen them a little, i would not be able to tell the old from the new!
however, my plugs were pretty black, but , like i said, ive never done this before, and im not positive what they would should look like. ill get a picture up later today.
i dont think this will fix my problem, because it seems to me, if it were this, it would be affecting every gear similiarly, but its not.
oh, i also got a good deal on a PFC last night and plan to put it in today hopefully. its says fds4 on it,so its the new one. and he said jason from rx7store put the base map back on it, as it was used when he got it.
ill give an update later.
i only had a crescent wrench at hand....that SUCKS. i gave up after getting 2 of them in, along with their respective wires replaced.
this whole engine only has around 6-7kmiles on it, so i got a feeling it wasnt these wires. if i were to clen them a little, i would not be able to tell the old from the new!
however, my plugs were pretty black, but , like i said, ive never done this before, and im not positive what they would should look like. ill get a picture up later today.
i dont think this will fix my problem, because it seems to me, if it were this, it would be affecting every gear similiarly, but its not.
oh, i also got a good deal on a PFC last night and plan to put it in today hopefully. its says fds4 on it,so its the new one. and he said jason from rx7store put the base map back on it, as it was used when he got it.
ill give an update later.
03-26-08, 06:38 AM
#20
^ive got the how-to from the fd3snet website and im gonna look into it, as that was my first suspicion. but i dont fully understand what it does, or how it works.
like i said, the problem did start after i had, had the UIM off for a week or two. i assume i couldve knocked it out of place?(dont really know what im talking about) or something?
but im gonna check.
another tid-bit. i had the fuel filter changed as soon as i bought it. so its got maybe, less than 5k miles on it.
like i said, the problem did start after i had, had the UIM off for a week or two. i assume i couldve knocked it out of place?(dont really know what im talking about) or something?
but im gonna check.
another tid-bit. i had the fuel filter changed as soon as i bought it. so its got maybe, less than 5k miles on it.
03-27-08, 11:14 AM
#22
"Legendary"
does this bucking happen EVERY time you drive or only once in a while? When your car bucks, is it when you have your radio, lights, heat on? You said your car idles fine. I would reccommend checking ground wires.
I had the same bucking problem at lower rpms with a perfect idle. First gear was always the worst but it did occur in other gears as well. Culprit was a loose ground wire. Fixed the ground wire, bucking stopped.
I had the same bucking problem at lower rpms with a perfect idle. First gear was always the worst but it did occur in other gears as well. Culprit was a loose ground wire. Fixed the ground wire, bucking stopped.
Last edited by RX7_GRL; 03-27-08 at 11:19 AM.
03-27-08, 02:31 PM
#23
ok. changed plugs and wires, changed oil, cleaned up and tightened all engine bay compnents.
as to the post above. that was one of my first thoughts. i have not found any ground loose as of yet. i did however improve the dinky little ground wire from the UIM to the firewall. and it may have help smooth out the driving, barely, but it didnt cure it.
i put in my power fc last night. following dales suggestion, i went to close the idle bleed screw and then open it a half turn. to my suprise, i bet i turned it, easily 10 times, before it was closed!
i checked everything an fired it up. idle sounded great! it quickly settled to about 900rpm, and just sound really smooth. i let it learn the idle for quite a while as suggested.
driving impression: i like it! the PFC has made the car run considerably smoother while accelerating. I have not WOT in 1st yet, as i was still researching the safety factors concerning the "base mod" map that comes on the PFC.
it does however accelerate perfectly smooth in 1st gear, drivning slowly, where as before it tried to buck a lot. i have a slight hunch, it may be cured.
last thing, ........looking at my TPS through the commander, im seeing
VTA1 .34 and WOT 4.46
VTA2 .76 and WOT 4.97
are these off enough to cause any problems?
as to the post above. that was one of my first thoughts. i have not found any ground loose as of yet. i did however improve the dinky little ground wire from the UIM to the firewall. and it may have help smooth out the driving, barely, but it didnt cure it.
i put in my power fc last night. following dales suggestion, i went to close the idle bleed screw and then open it a half turn. to my suprise, i bet i turned it, easily 10 times, before it was closed!
i checked everything an fired it up. idle sounded great! it quickly settled to about 900rpm, and just sound really smooth. i let it learn the idle for quite a while as suggested.
driving impression: i like it! the PFC has made the car run considerably smoother while accelerating. I have not WOT in 1st yet, as i was still researching the safety factors concerning the "base mod" map that comes on the PFC.
it does however accelerate perfectly smooth in 1st gear, drivning slowly, where as before it tried to buck a lot. i have a slight hunch, it may be cured.
last thing, ........looking at my TPS through the commander, im seeing
VTA1 .34 and WOT 4.46
VTA2 .76 and WOT 4.97
are these off enough to cause any problems?
03-27-08, 06:02 PM
#24
Just a simple question, have you done anything electrical to your vehicle prior to this?
Are you currently using the stock ECU? This sounds very similar to my problem I had before. What I did was when I was doing a fuel pressure testing, I had to have the car running and pull the fuel pump relay to have it die off residuel fuel... When everything tested and done, test drove the car, everything happened exactly what you've described above. I had stock ECU, later what i figured was, I need to reset the ECU (this is done by: taking off negative battery cable, have foot on brake for 10-30 seconds, reconnect negative cable, ECU is reset) Test drove the vehicle, no more violent bucking whatsoever.
In this incident, I figured that Mazda does not tell us tech/or owner that, when working with anything dealing with electrical, if they see the KL15 (key on signal) the ECU will set a fuel cut to prevent things from hurting themselves. Therefore, I think you might've done something while you had the key in the ignition on, and causes the ECU to react violently to that matter. Therefore give it a try and see what happens and let us know more from there on.
-AzEKnightz
Are you currently using the stock ECU? This sounds very similar to my problem I had before. What I did was when I was doing a fuel pressure testing, I had to have the car running and pull the fuel pump relay to have it die off residuel fuel... When everything tested and done, test drove the car, everything happened exactly what you've described above. I had stock ECU, later what i figured was, I need to reset the ECU (this is done by: taking off negative battery cable, have foot on brake for 10-30 seconds, reconnect negative cable, ECU is reset) Test drove the vehicle, no more violent bucking whatsoever.
In this incident, I figured that Mazda does not tell us tech/or owner that, when working with anything dealing with electrical, if they see the KL15 (key on signal) the ECU will set a fuel cut to prevent things from hurting themselves. Therefore, I think you might've done something while you had the key in the ignition on, and causes the ECU to react violently to that matter. Therefore give it a try and see what happens and let us know more from there on.
-AzEKnightz
04-07-08, 08:12 PM
#25
update.
The car has performed wonderfully for about 2 weeks. Ever since i put in the PFC idle has been wonderful and no more hesitation or bucking........until tonight.
took it for a drive for the first time in a few days, and its doing it again
nothing has changed...?
so the PFC rules out a bad ecu, or fuel cut.
my TPS settings are very close to what they should be?
i cant figure out why it was completly cured for 2 weeks, and now its back
The car has performed wonderfully for about 2 weeks. Ever since i put in the PFC idle has been wonderful and no more hesitation or bucking........until tonight.
took it for a drive for the first time in a few days, and its doing it again
nothing has changed...? so the PFC rules out a bad ecu, or fuel cut.
my TPS settings are very close to what they should be?
i cant figure out why it was completly cured for 2 weeks, and now its back