Update on JimLab Bushing Thread
10-26-04, 07:47 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by pomanferrari
You could be right. However, the force being able to be developed by human hands ain't nothing like those encountered by a big fat 60 lbs tire and wheel combo.
Once the old bushings were removed we attempted to seperate the inner race from the outer and the bushing was quite resilient!
Last edited by DamonB; 10-26-04 at 07:50 AM.
10-26-04, 04:31 PM
#27
Originally Posted by DamonB
I can assure you that the force of a big fat 60lb tire and wheel combo is nothing compared to the force of the 10 ton press that was mashing them out of the control arms
Once the old bushings were removed we attempted to seperate the inner race from the outer and the bushing was quite resilient!
Once the old bushings were removed we attempted to seperate the inner race from the outer and the bushing was quite resilient!
10-26-04, 04:37 PM
#28
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Have you tried looking into the RX-7 TSB's? Some people have had an issue with the steering boots going bad and making the front of the car "clunk"
Do you have aftermarket wheels? Do they have centering rings? This could also be a souce of the noise.
Just some suggestions.
Do you have aftermarket wheels? Do they have centering rings? This could also be a souce of the noise.
Just some suggestions.
10-26-04, 04:43 PM
#29
Originally Posted by turbojeff
I'm fuzzy on the cost of the lower control arms, I'm thinking that Mazda wanted $750ea for them. That probably means that you could get them from Malloy for $500 ea, Mazdaspeed Motorsports for $400ea. My memory is also foggy on the upper control arms, I'm thinking they are $200 ea, but I think that is the Mazdaspeed price. That means they might list around $350-400 ea.
So list price your looking at a little over $2K for front control arms.
Mazdaspeed prices your looking at around $1100 or so.
I think bushings are between $40-80 ea. 8 bushings will cost $320-640, plus maybe 2-3 hrs of labor if you take the arms to a machine shop to press them in and out.
So list price your looking at a little over $2K for front control arms.
Mazdaspeed prices your looking at around $1100 or so.
I think bushings are between $40-80 ea. 8 bushings will cost $320-640, plus maybe 2-3 hrs of labor if you take the arms to a machine shop to press them in and out.
Each lower front arm is $476 complete with bushings.
A complete set of bushings for the front lower arm is $185. This means that the cost of the lower front arm is about $291.
Last time I did the bushings, it was 4 hours each from starting the compressor to turning out the light. At my rate of $80/hr, that's $620 that I could earn NOT to wrench and work at the office. If I do bushings only, the total cost would be $370 + 620 (in lost earning) = $990.00.
If I replace the arms with new ones that would be $952 + 80 (1 hour of my time) = $1032.
It looks like I'm going to just buy the complete arm. Or I could pay some grease monkey to install the bushings and fark it all up.
10-26-04, 04:56 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by pomanferrari
So the bushing is designed to move axially.
10-26-04, 05:20 PM
#31
Originally Posted by pomanferrari
Called Malloy today.
Each lower front arm is $476 complete with bushings.
A complete set of bushings for the front lower arm is $185. This means that the cost of the lower front arm is about $291.
Last time I did the bushings, it was 4 hours each from starting the compressor to turning out the light. At my rate of $80/hr, that's $620 that I could earn NOT to wrench and work at the office. If I do bushings only, the total cost would be $370 + 620 (in lost earning) = $990.00.
If I replace the arms with new ones that would be $952 + 80 (1 hour of my time) = $1032.
It looks like I'm going to just buy the complete arm. Or I could pay some grease monkey to install the bushings and fark it all up.
Each lower front arm is $476 complete with bushings.
A complete set of bushings for the front lower arm is $185. This means that the cost of the lower front arm is about $291.
Last time I did the bushings, it was 4 hours each from starting the compressor to turning out the light. At my rate of $80/hr, that's $620 that I could earn NOT to wrench and work at the office. If I do bushings only, the total cost would be $370 + 620 (in lost earning) = $990.00.
If I replace the arms with new ones that would be $952 + 80 (1 hour of my time) = $1032.
It looks like I'm going to just buy the complete arm. Or I could pay some grease monkey to install the bushings and fark it all up.
.
10-26-04, 05:21 PM
#32
Originally Posted by travisorus rex
Have you tried looking into the RX-7 TSB's? Some people have had an issue with the steering boots going bad and making the front of the car "clunk"
Do you have aftermarket wheels? Do they have centering rings? This could also be a souce of the noise.
Just some suggestions.
Do you have aftermarket wheels? Do they have centering rings? This could also be a souce of the noise.
Just some suggestions.
The wheels are OZ 3-piece 5 spokes that I have had for the last 6 years.
The noise is a loud popping clunking noise. I had a mechanic crawled under the car while I rock the car from the side of the door back and forth. He tells me that the noise is coming from the front subframe.
10-26-04, 07:36 PM
#33
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Listen up money man...
I did not ask you what kind of wheels you had. I asked if you had the centering rings for them. If not, get them.
"Loud popping" and "clunking" dont really go together. If the alleged noise is coming from the front subframe, dont blame it on the suspension. Subframes and suspension components are not the same. You should isolate the "noise" and go from there. Did you listen for the noise while the mechanic (or any other person) rocked the car back and forth? If not, do it.
Most mechanics (yes, even Mazda mechanics) dont know **** about the RX-7. You should try getting under there because, if you are in any way a fan of the RX-7, you should know it better than the ********* at the dealer or any other shop.
There is a TSB on the motor mounts as well. I assume that you haven't checked your motor mounts lately. If not, do it.
This isnt a bushing problem I can assure you. Dozens of people have these bushings, including me and I have yet to hear a complaint (you are the exception). I love mine and consider them to be the single best suspension improvemnent on my car to date.
I did not ask you what kind of wheels you had. I asked if you had the centering rings for them. If not, get them.
"Loud popping" and "clunking" dont really go together. If the alleged noise is coming from the front subframe, dont blame it on the suspension. Subframes and suspension components are not the same. You should isolate the "noise" and go from there. Did you listen for the noise while the mechanic (or any other person) rocked the car back and forth? If not, do it.
Most mechanics (yes, even Mazda mechanics) dont know **** about the RX-7. You should try getting under there because, if you are in any way a fan of the RX-7, you should know it better than the ********* at the dealer or any other shop.
There is a TSB on the motor mounts as well. I assume that you haven't checked your motor mounts lately. If not, do it.
This isnt a bushing problem I can assure you. Dozens of people have these bushings, including me and I have yet to hear a complaint (you are the exception). I love mine and consider them to be the single best suspension improvemnent on my car to date.
10-26-04, 09:12 PM
#34
Originally Posted by travisorus rex
There is a TSB on the motor mounts as well. I assume that you haven't checked your motor mounts lately. If not, do it.
In any case it's brand new engine mounts. BTW, to eliminate the engine mounts as a source, I coasted down the parking garage (great for the echo effect) with the engine off. Yeah, damn creaking and groaning as if I were a wooden ship overloaded with fresh slaves ready to embark to the New World with profits in my master's eyes.
Originally Posted by travisorus rex
This isnt a bushing problem I can assure you. Dozens of people have these bushings, including me and I have yet to hear a complaint (you are the exception). I love mine and consider them to be the single best suspension improvemnent on my car to date.
10-26-04, 09:15 PM
#35
Originally Posted by travisorus rex
Dozens of people have these bushings, including me and I have yet to hear a complaint (you are the exception). I love mine and consider them to be the single best suspension improvemnent on my car to date.
I don't think I'm the only one with this problem. Do a search and you'll see it's not just myself. In some cases, without adequate lubing, there has been at least one almost catastrophic consequence.
10-26-04, 11:02 PM
#37
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Jim has said all that needs to be said on the topic.. he didn't lube them enough. and as Poorman just said himself ....
"Do a search and you'll see it's not just myself. In some cases, without adequate lubing, there has been at least one almost catastrophic consequence."..
soo it is now a proven fact that non-lubing will cause this problem.. That said. When poorman replaces the arms complete. IF the noise goes away it will undoubtedly be Jims bushings that were the cause.. and not a worn bushing surface( arm ID) or ball joint attached to the same arm. But whatever. as long as he fixes the problem and stops blaming others products that are proven to work when used correctly
Plus once he gets them apart, if the bushings ARE worn out he can post pics of what will happen when you don't follow the manufactures direction/recommendations
"Do a search and you'll see it's not just myself. In some cases, without adequate lubing, there has been at least one almost catastrophic consequence."..
soo it is now a proven fact that non-lubing will cause this problem.. That said. When poorman replaces the arms complete. IF the noise goes away it will undoubtedly be Jims bushings that were the cause.. and not a worn bushing surface( arm ID) or ball joint attached to the same arm. But whatever. as long as he fixes the problem and stops blaming others products that are proven to work when used correctly
Plus once he gets them apart, if the bushings ARE worn out he can post pics of what will happen when you don't follow the manufactures direction/recommendations
10-27-04, 08:11 AM
#38
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Well, I stand corrected. I never thought that you would be careless enough to not LUBRICATE the bushings. It all makes sense now.
In any case, I expect a full defense of how you DID lubricate them. To that I say bullshit.
In any case, I expect a full defense of how you DID lubricate them. To that I say bullshit.
10-27-04, 08:42 PM
#39
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Did you replace all four of the front control arms? You should try that because ball joints, especially when used on upper and lower suspension components, work in pairs. Even if your upper ball joints are good like you say, it may still make noises if the lower one is ****. Do remember that the car has 105 thousand miles.
One other solution for you...SELL YOUR CAR! Take your $12,000 and buy a new pair of seats for a Ferrari. That would be so much better than owning an "Old wooden battleship creaking and groaning in the wind"
One other solution for you...SELL YOUR CAR! Take your $12,000 and buy a new pair of seats for a Ferrari. That would be so much better than owning an "Old wooden battleship creaking and groaning in the wind"
10-27-04, 09:32 PM
#40
Originally Posted by travisorus rex
Well, I stand corrected. I never thought that you would be careless enough to not LUBRICATE the bushings. It all makes sense now.
In any case, I expect a full defense of how you DID lubricate them. To that I say bullshit.
In any case, I expect a full defense of how you DID lubricate them. To that I say bullshit.
Last edited by pomanferrari; 10-27-04 at 09:39 PM.
10-27-04, 09:35 PM
#41
Originally Posted by travisorus rex
Did you replace all four of the front control arms? You should try that because ball joints, especially when used on upper and lower suspension components, work in pairs. Even if your upper ball joints are good like you say, it may still make noises if the lower one is ****. Do remember that the car has 105 thousand miles.
Do you even know what symptoms a bad ball joint will make as you're driving?
Go over a speed bump with a bad ball joint and the steering wheel will quiver. That's the first symptom.
Any other things I forgot?
10-27-04, 09:38 PM
#42
Originally Posted by travisorus rex
One other solution for you...SELL YOUR CAR! Take your $12,000 and buy a new pair of seats for a Ferrari. That would be so much better than owning an "Old wooden battleship creaking and groaning in the wind"
10-27-04, 09:43 PM
#43
Originally Posted by BigIslandSevens
Jim has said all that needs to be said on the topic.. he didn't lube them enough. and as Poorman just said himself ....
"Do a search and you'll see it's not just myself. In some cases, without adequate lubing, there has been at least one almost catastrophic consequence."..
soo it is now a proven fact that non-lubing will cause this problem.. That said. When poorman replaces the arms complete. IF the noise goes away it will undoubtedly be Jims bushings that were the cause.. and not a worn bushing surface( arm ID) or ball joint attached to the same arm. But whatever. as long as he fixes the problem and stops blaming others products that are proven to work when used correctly
Plus once he gets them apart, if the bushings ARE worn out he can post pics of what will happen when you don't follow the manufactures direction/recommendations
"Do a search and you'll see it's not just myself. In some cases, without adequate lubing, there has been at least one almost catastrophic consequence."..
soo it is now a proven fact that non-lubing will cause this problem.. That said. When poorman replaces the arms complete. IF the noise goes away it will undoubtedly be Jims bushings that were the cause.. and not a worn bushing surface( arm ID) or ball joint attached to the same arm. But whatever. as long as he fixes the problem and stops blaming others products that are proven to work when used correctly
Plus once he gets them apart, if the bushings ARE worn out he can post pics of what will happen when you don't follow the manufactures direction/recommendations
Do a search and you'll see that I inquired about zerks fitting almost two years ago. Why the f*ck would I inquire about zerks fitting and did install them and not lube them?
Last edited by pomanferrari; 10-27-04 at 09:48 PM.
10-27-04, 11:01 PM
#44
I hate to break in to this discussion, but this is starting to annoy me. Every time I see that there is a new reply to this thread, I am hoping that pomanferrari has found what his problem is. Instead, I keep finding a discussion that seems to get more and more heated with every post.
Didn't your mother ever tell you that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all?
I know I'm relatively new to the rx7club compared to most of you guys, but I think most will agree that this sort of thing is getting old. Everytime I see a post like this, (that goes bad) I want to turn off the PC and walk away.
If we wanted drama, we'd watch reality TV. (Just kidding, I still wouldn' watch it)
All I'm trying to say is that I think we should focus more on helping each other out instead of bagging.
If you are asking questions, then you obviously don't have the answer. So if someone dosen't have the answer you wanted to hear, then you should thank them for their advice and then you can disregard it if you wish to do so.
BTW pomanferrari, I recently purchased a set of bushings also, so I would really like to know what is causing your problem before I install mine.
Didn't your mother ever tell you that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all?
I know I'm relatively new to the rx7club compared to most of you guys, but I think most will agree that this sort of thing is getting old. Everytime I see a post like this, (that goes bad) I want to turn off the PC and walk away.
If we wanted drama, we'd watch reality TV. (Just kidding, I still wouldn' watch it)
All I'm trying to say is that I think we should focus more on helping each other out instead of bagging.
If you are asking questions, then you obviously don't have the answer. So if someone dosen't have the answer you wanted to hear, then you should thank them for their advice and then you can disregard it if you wish to do so.
BTW pomanferrari, I recently purchased a set of bushings also, so I would really like to know what is causing your problem before I install mine.
10-28-04, 12:14 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by pomanferrari
You are right: you are exactly what your Pseudonym states : a No Talent A$$hole.
I am out of suggestions. Good luck with your bushings.
10-28-04, 12:51 AM
#46
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"Are you people as dumb as George Bush? Make a moronic assumption that I didn't follow the installation instruction and then stick to it tooth and nail?
Do a search and you'll see that I inquired about zerks fitting almost two years ago. Why the f*ck would I inquire about zerks fitting and did install them and not lube them?"
You yourself said you didn't do it as often as you thought you should. That was in the thread that got closed. So i guess that makes me stupid.
so now we are at,... 1) blaming a product with NO factual base..2) avoiding having to eat crow when the bushings are not the problem by replacing the entire arm..3) Namecalling?...c'mon man grow up!! Bush is a low blow!!
Do a search and you'll see that I inquired about zerks fitting almost two years ago. Why the f*ck would I inquire about zerks fitting and did install them and not lube them?"
You yourself said you didn't do it as often as you thought you should. That was in the thread that got closed. So i guess that makes me stupid.
so now we are at,... 1) blaming a product with NO factual base..2) avoiding having to eat crow when the bushings are not the problem by replacing the entire arm..3) Namecalling?...c'mon man grow up!! Bush is a low blow!!
10-28-04, 01:09 AM
#47
Originally Posted by BigIslandSevens
"Are you people as dumb as George Bush? Make a moronic assumption that I didn't follow the installation instruction and then stick to it tooth and nail?
Do a search and you'll see that I inquired about zerks fitting almost two years ago. Why the f*ck would I inquire about zerks fitting and did install them and not lube them?"
You yourself said you didn't do it as often as you thought you should. That was in the thread that got closed. So i guess that makes me stupid.
so now we are at,... 1) blaming a product with NO factual base..2) avoiding having to eat crow when the bushings are not the problem by replacing the entire arm..3) Namecalling?...c'mon man grow up!! Bush is a low blow!!
10-28-04, 07:58 AM
#48
Originally Posted by pomanferrari
And why would rocking the car side to side by pushing on the windown sill caused the clunking noise ? The engine ain't moving anywhere.
In any case it's brand new engine mounts. BTW, to eliminate the engine mounts as a source, I coasted down the parking garage (great for the echo effect) with the engine off. Yeah, damn creaking and groaning as if I were a wooden ship overloaded with fresh slaves ready to embark to the New World with profits in my master's eyes.
Pray tell me, why is it that the noise isn't there in the morning when the car is cold but after 15-20 miles it's a racket just driving around turns? And why wasn't the noise there the first 2500-3000 miles?
In any case it's brand new engine mounts. BTW, to eliminate the engine mounts as a source, I coasted down the parking garage (great for the echo effect) with the engine off. Yeah, damn creaking and groaning as if I were a wooden ship overloaded with fresh slaves ready to embark to the New World with profits in my master's eyes.
Pray tell me, why is it that the noise isn't there in the morning when the car is cold but after 15-20 miles it's a racket just driving around turns? And why wasn't the noise there the first 2500-3000 miles?
This is exactly what I am experiencing. The noise gets worse the longer the car is running. In the morning it is pretty quiet. If I take the car out for an hour drive, it sounds like the engine is going to fall out or something. There is a lot of harsh clunking coming from up front and on two distinctive sides. I too have new poly engine mounts and have been going over everything. like I mentioned earlier, it wasn't there when I first got the car on the road. But now it is pretty bad. I am not saying that it is the bushings for sure untill I know 100%, but for you guys who don't have the problem to sit there and say we do not have a bushing problem just because others don't is completely assinine to me.
10-28-04, 08:16 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by MFilippello
but for you guys who don't have the problem to sit there and say we do not have a bushing problem just because others don't is completely assinine to me.
pomanferrari has insisted he has a bushing problem (I don't disagree) the entire time and yet he replaces and inspects things other than the bushings.
Must get payed by the hour...
Last edited by DamonB; 10-28-04 at 08:23 AM.
10-28-04, 10:47 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by DamonB
What's completely assinine is continuous posting of theories and suppositions. Why not just pull the gadammed bushings out already and see if they're screwed up! How is that so hard to understand???
pomanferrari has insisted he has a bushing problem (I don't disagree) the entire time and yet he replaces and inspects things other than the bushings. Must get payed by the hour...
pomanferrari has insisted he has a bushing problem (I don't disagree) the entire time and yet he replaces and inspects things other than the bushings.
Must get payed by the hour...