Two more reasons why these cars blow up
06-18-09, 10:55 PM
#27
I won't let go
Sure. I blew a motor that way many years ago. Had full bolt ones and an M2 large intercooler. Car ran flawlessly. One day I was in traffic and the car became heat soaked. If I recall correctly intake temps were about 64 degrees C. Traffic began to clear, a few miles later I punched it and boom. There is no way the air going through the intercooler was still 64 degrees.
You're saying that after a few miles of driving you're temps were still up at 64C?
Even heat soaked, I've never seen my AIT respond like that. I don't think I've ever had an issue where I'd be worried about that. I'll start logging them more actively. Of course, this is with a FMIC so...
06-18-09, 10:59 PM
#28
F yo couch!
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Sometimes I think it is all relative. I have been talking to an owner in Japan, trying to buy some parts and he said he has been running this setup for 4 years now, NO PROBLEMS at all.
Looks like the radiator has been positioned slightly different, but I believe it is the stock radiator and no ducting to the smic.
Looks like the radiator has been positioned slightly different, but I believe it is the stock radiator and no ducting to the smic.
06-18-09, 11:14 PM
#31
Autox last summer on 96f sunny day: water temps never exceeded 99c.
Pretty good for running flat out for a minute and then stopping.
Mods to accomplish this:
vmount
ducted IC
cold air intake
ReMedy Water pump
relocated Intake Temp sensor to elbow, the plastic coating off was sanded off to improve response time
dual 19 Row oil coolers.
lots of reflective heat shield applied to IC ducting, IC and cold side tubing.
More recently: Water only AI comes on at 8 PSI
During a track day last year, the car would not even get warm during an early session.
Ambient temp was 50f, and it took quite awhile to get the car warm enough to drive hard.
My warm enough, I mean 180f oil temps.
Pretty good for running flat out for a minute and then stopping.
Mods to accomplish this:
vmount
ducted IC
cold air intake
ReMedy Water pump
relocated Intake Temp sensor to elbow, the plastic coating off was sanded off to improve response time
dual 19 Row oil coolers.
lots of reflective heat shield applied to IC ducting, IC and cold side tubing.
More recently: Water only AI comes on at 8 PSI
During a track day last year, the car would not even get warm during an early session.
Ambient temp was 50f, and it took quite awhile to get the car warm enough to drive hard.
My warm enough, I mean 180f oil temps.
06-18-09, 11:16 PM
#32
Sheriff´s FD
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Good thread, but let me ask a few things.
- How can you read the air intake temperature, i guess only with a PFC, correct?
- you are talking about the smic, so i am correct that you count the stock intercooler to a smic or like the re-a IC from the picture above?
So you talked about v-mounted IC, but whats about front mount intercooler? I think the front mount intercooler is the best place, it gets the whole cool air through the front bumper.
I am asking because i ordered a FMIC from japan :-)
- How can you read the air intake temperature, i guess only with a PFC, correct?
- you are talking about the smic, so i am correct that you count the stock intercooler to a smic or like the re-a IC from the picture above?
So you talked about v-mounted IC, but whats about front mount intercooler? I think the front mount intercooler is the best place, it gets the whole cool air through the front bumper.
I am asking because i ordered a FMIC from japan :-)
06-18-09, 11:33 PM
#33
F yo couch!
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Good thread, but let me ask a few things.
- How can you read the air intake temperature, i guess only with a PFC, correct?
- you are talking about the smic, so i am correct that you count the stock intercooler to a smic or like the re-a IC from the picture above?
So you talked about v-mounted IC, but whats about front mount intercooler? I think the front mount intercooler is the best place, it gets the whole cool air through the front bumper.
I am asking because i ordered a FMIC from japan :-)
- How can you read the air intake temperature, i guess only with a PFC, correct?
- you are talking about the smic, so i am correct that you count the stock intercooler to a smic or like the re-a IC from the picture above?
So you talked about v-mounted IC, but whats about front mount intercooler? I think the front mount intercooler is the best place, it gets the whole cool air through the front bumper.
I am asking because i ordered a FMIC from japan :-)
yes any intercooler that goes in the same location as factory is a smic
front mounts are good, but they tend to have a reduced radiator flow because there taking up all the room....cold air for turbos, used warm air for radiator
where v mount pretty much gets an equal amount of cold air for both intercooler and radiator
06-18-09, 11:41 PM
#34
F yo couch!
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sorry i forgot to mention a couple things as i was rushing to get that in:
i believe smic stands for Stock Mount intercooler
and theres nothing wrong with a front mount, it does an amazing job with cooling down the passing air..people lean more towards v mounts becuase, as we all know, heat is a MAJOR issue when it comes to these engines, and you always try to remove as much heat as possible
so with a front mount its like your best friend(the intercooler) hooking up with this tight hot chick, and then the next day you(the radiator) hooking up with the same girl
where as with a v-mount its like, you(the air) hooking up with these two sexy chicks(the intercooler and the radiator) at the same time
lol
i believe smic stands for Stock Mount intercooler
and theres nothing wrong with a front mount, it does an amazing job with cooling down the passing air..people lean more towards v mounts becuase, as we all know, heat is a MAJOR issue when it comes to these engines, and you always try to remove as much heat as possible
so with a front mount its like your best friend(the intercooler) hooking up with this tight hot chick, and then the next day you(the radiator) hooking up with the same girl
where as with a v-mount its like, you(the air) hooking up with these two sexy chicks(the intercooler and the radiator) at the same time
lol
06-19-09, 02:19 AM
#36
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Great thread. This recent thread kinda coincides with what you're discussing.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ght=water+temp
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ght=water+temp
06-19-09, 05:43 AM
#37
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ok. I have no A/C or P/S or air pump. I stripped my car of all that stuff so i guess that's why it looks so much more easier for me to relocate the radiator.I will relocate my radiator and move the AIT this weekend so see how my temps change and my car reacts on the ecu.
06-19-09, 09:45 AM
#38
An intercooler setup that way does nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually heated the air. I think people say their setup works fine, but they never actually monitor anything. Just because it doesn't blow up right away doesn't mean its ideal. Most aftermarket engine management systems will have the ability to display intake temp.
Last edited by IRPerformance; 06-19-09 at 09:50 AM.
06-19-09, 08:34 PM
#40
Rotary Experiment Seven has some very good advice here. There are a few simple things people overlook regarding engine safety. When my stock sensor was in the stock location it would take quite awhile for the temps to normalize. I would never stomp on the pedal until the temps came down below 50C, I knew as soon as I stabbed it, the engine was going to see lower temps and not add the rigth amount of fuel. It's not fun having to wait around when you want to shoot onto an on ramp, but engine safety is much more important.
I relocated, and shaved the plastic off from around my stock sensor. This helps a bit with reaction time. Heat soak is the worst for the sensor, so relocating it helps a lot in this area. I relocated mine to the plastic elbow, plastic is also a good thermal barrier. It should be noted that the stock intake temp tables should be modified as the sensor will read a cooler charge just from the sensor being relocated.
The downside is the sensor is farther from the engine, so it won't be as accurate in telling us what the engine is seeing. (lessor of 2 evils) It also still suffers from being really slow. This means if you hammer through the gears and the intercooler heat soaks it will take awhile or maybe even never show you the true peak temps you're engine is seeing, it also still takes time for the sensor to normalize after sitting still for awhile. Though this is not nearly as bad as when it's in the UIM. If aux injection is used you won't be able to see the lower temps generated by it as quickly. This kinda sucks but at least the engine is safer due to the knock deterring effects of aux injection.
Personally I'm now using a fast reacting sensor that's mounted in the stock location. It took a long time for me to find one that works with the same resistance as the stock sensor for use with the PFC. The speed difference with this sensor is a huge improvement. I can breath hot air onto the sensor and it will react, is how fast the sensor is. The stock sensor would probably require me to exhale for 10 mins before it would even budge. (course i would also be dead)
As WaachBack mentioned I can get more of the sensors if anyone is interested just drop me a line via PM.
Brent
I relocated, and shaved the plastic off from around my stock sensor. This helps a bit with reaction time. Heat soak is the worst for the sensor, so relocating it helps a lot in this area. I relocated mine to the plastic elbow, plastic is also a good thermal barrier. It should be noted that the stock intake temp tables should be modified as the sensor will read a cooler charge just from the sensor being relocated.
The downside is the sensor is farther from the engine, so it won't be as accurate in telling us what the engine is seeing. (lessor of 2 evils) It also still suffers from being really slow. This means if you hammer through the gears and the intercooler heat soaks it will take awhile or maybe even never show you the true peak temps you're engine is seeing, it also still takes time for the sensor to normalize after sitting still for awhile. Though this is not nearly as bad as when it's in the UIM. If aux injection is used you won't be able to see the lower temps generated by it as quickly. This kinda sucks but at least the engine is safer due to the knock deterring effects of aux injection.
Personally I'm now using a fast reacting sensor that's mounted in the stock location. It took a long time for me to find one that works with the same resistance as the stock sensor for use with the PFC. The speed difference with this sensor is a huge improvement. I can breath hot air onto the sensor and it will react, is how fast the sensor is. The stock sensor would probably require me to exhale for 10 mins before it would even budge. (course i would also be dead)
As WaachBack mentioned I can get more of the sensors if anyone is interested just drop me a line via PM.
Brent
06-19-09, 11:32 PM
#45
If running the fast sensor it should be as close to the engine as possible to give us a better idea of what the engine is seeing. Turbo's and hot chunks of aluminum are still going to heat the air a certain amount as it passes by, we should still take this into account if possible, but once the air gets cooler we definitely need to know so we can add the fuel. This will allow for less of a safety net to make more power, as well as not have as much worry that in certain situations we don't have the correct fuel supply.
If you're running the stock ecu then it's going to be running pretty rich anyways so you shouldn't have to worry as much. I suppose that is mazda's fail safe for keeping the engine alive, is to dump lots of fuel, unfortunately this causes carbon issues and reduces power output.
It's still a good idea if the car has been sitting after being driven, or if in stop and go traffic (even if the car has been off for a couple hrs) to drive the car for a couple minutes and get plenty of air through the throttle body like on the highway or at least at a steady speed in higher gears, before stomping on the gas.
The sensor I'm using is a triumph part that is used in modern triumph bikes. It matches the one out of my 02 triumph 955i, and uses a bosch connector. PM me for pricing info and more details. heres a couple pics, and yes there is already a large thread showing my testing of the sensor and pics of the one from my bike etc etc i hate to have too many of the same threads all over the place.
06-20-09, 01:04 PM
#46
Autox last summer on 96f sunny day: water temps never exceeded 99c.
Pretty good for running flat out for a minute and then stopping.
Mods to accomplish this:
vmount
ducted IC
cold air intake
ReMedy Water pump
relocated Intake Temp sensor to elbow, the plastic coating off was sanded off to improve response time
dual 19 Row oil coolers.
lots of reflective heat shield applied to IC ducting, IC and cold side tubing.
More recently: Water only AI comes on at 8 PSI
During a track day last year, the car would not even get warm during an early session.
Ambient temp was 50f, and it took quite awhile to get the car warm enough to drive hard.
My warm enough, I mean 180f oil temps.
Pretty good for running flat out for a minute and then stopping.
Mods to accomplish this:
vmount
ducted IC
cold air intake
ReMedy Water pump
relocated Intake Temp sensor to elbow, the plastic coating off was sanded off to improve response time
dual 19 Row oil coolers.
lots of reflective heat shield applied to IC ducting, IC and cold side tubing.
More recently: Water only AI comes on at 8 PSI
During a track day last year, the car would not even get warm during an early session.
Ambient temp was 50f, and it took quite awhile to get the car warm enough to drive hard.
My warm enough, I mean 180f oil temps.
(Fans are only visible under the car with the vmount)
Just replaced it this morning.
07-01-09, 11:11 PM
#48
I did some more testing on another car today. Test car has stock twins, fluidyne, medium size stock mount intercooler, box-style cold air intake, dp, high flow cat, catback. Ambient temps today were about 85F. Just cruising around town and stopping at a few lights, intake temps reached a ridiculous 77 degrees C. It took over 10 minutes of just cruising on the highway to drop the intake temps into the low 60s. I wasn't even boosting the car. I am installing the fast acting intake temp sensor and relocating it to the elbow tomorrow. I will post up the results.
