bigmack000

better then 99spec using turbonetics upgrade. with 60trim. guys i talk to withthe 50 are makign 350rwhp at 10psi. so i think i shodu lget 400 easy. but never know.
joel

AznPhoenix

ok... im getting really confused on what way i should go.... i think twins r for me because i need low end power as well as high end. no civic will beat me to 30!!! :-D but... stock or upgarde twins..... 99 spec r too expensive i think... wats the max boost i can run on stock twins with open intake, open exhaust, ecu, ic and such?

AznPhoenix

i would like to make min of 400 rwp... what twins wil ldo that... safely i might add lol

widebody2

The twin kit from the rx7store and thats about it....you need to have your car so maxed out to make 400 horses with any type of stock/upgraded twins. You can really run about 1 bar on stock twins...thats good for mid 300s. 370 at the absolute best.

widebody2

Dont get me wrong...I'm not a twin hater. You just really are not going to make any where near 400 hp with any type of reliability on twin turbos. I'm sure if you get all the basic bolt ons and run 1 bar with your stock twins you will be happy. You will be in the mid 300s and the car will be a quick spooling beast. Just as an example it will be around the same speed as a late 90's viper up to about 110-120. Thats from experience.

bigmack000

well the one si am gettign are said to flow 50%more air then stockers. i will find out the guys i talk to say they can mke over 400 but some dont. have to find out this spring.
joel

widebody2

I think 50% more is pretty much a flat out lie. The old pettite upgrades did something like 15% more and BnRs do about 20%. I think you'd need a completely different compressor housing to do 50% more...and actually even the ones that have a diff comp housing (ex m2) don't flow 50% more. Make over 400 then show me please.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Most owners modding cars ARE idiots, the single turbo kits usually require some fabbing, the owners blow it and the car suffers for it.

The original poster mentions 12psi, the stockers are fine with that power level. The test pool of stock twins lasting years is MUCH larger than the test pool of single turbo cars.

artguy

the 402 was on race gas only for the stock twins...

personally i would not run the stockers at that boost level...heat heat heat.


the 412 on upgraded twins was on PUMPGAS but his timeslips are four mph faster than the car with 402...so spo was probably putting down closer to 430 when he ran the car at the track that day.

artguy

try speaking from experience homie.

i put down 381 and after 4k miles my twins are still cherry. no leaks..no cracks to my knowledge...and no smoke.

artguy

wrong again. the m2 set uses the stock housings. the internals are all garret gt30 ballistics.

though unless they are running a different manifold they wont be flowing 50 percent more.

j

artguy

wait til march 7th when the new bnr sets are being dynoed by steve kan from gotham.


j

widebody2

artguy are you kidding me? you did 381 for 4k miles. I really don't think thats a long enough time to call the reliability record people. plus that is 19 horses away from 400. Oh and at what boost did you do that at? I'm willing to bet my car it wasn't at 1 bar. I'm guessing 17-18 lbs, am I wrong?...I was speaking from experience...I've owned stock twins at 1 bar...BnRs I ran at 17lbs and now a single.

Boostn7

>>the 402 was on race gas only for the stock twins<<

Artguy: Not sure where your info is coming from but let me correct you........

That 402 rwh was on 100% pump gas (Exxon-93) on STOCK PORTS !!!!!!! hitting 18psi.......wanna know what the previous runs were?????

dyno#42= 397.5rwh_363.5rwt
dyno#41= 398.5rwh_357.7rwt
dyno#40= 395.4rwh_351.2rwt
dyno#39= 394.5rwh_346.9rwt
dyno#38= 392.8rwh_346.9rwt
dyno#38= 389.9rwh_347.6rwt
dyno#37= 390.0rwh_348.2rwt

ENOUGH? have all dyno sheets to prove the numbers!!!!!!!!!!!
As you could see my goal was the 400rwh.......as soon it hit 400 car was off the dyno.

<personally i would not run the stockers at that boost level...heat heat heat.>
I agree!!!!....including any upgraded twin set running OEM exhaust housings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<the 412 on upgraded twins was on PUMPGAS but his timeslips are four mph faster than the car with 402...so spo was probably putting down closer to 430 when he ran the car at the track that day.>

HAHAHAHA........ NOT!!!!! I ran 122.8 mph on stock twins on stock ports and pump gas ........
125-122.8= 2.2 mph !!!!!
By the way I ran 125 NOT once *but* 4-5 times.....with a best 125.4 mph......So I'm making ~430rwh, right?

Boostn7

FYI: the 125's traps were on ported motor......

Boostn7

back to the original question.............

Up to ~360rwh you cannot beat the hp/ torque curve generated by non-seq twins.....@ 15-16psi. Look at my torque #'s on previous post.

If you need more then 360-380rwh then a single is what I recommend.....a breeze with ~14psi and much less stress/heat.

widebody2

100% agree...btw your car is amazing

artguy

my apologies.




j

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Ok...I read all this, and I've read quite a few threads on the twins vs. single debate. But there are a cpl of things I'm still not final about...

artguy said << wait til march 7th when the new bnr sets are being dynoed by steve kan from gotham >> that, im definetly doing. so we can't talk about THAT yet...

widebody2 said << I think you'd need a completely different compressor housing to do 50% more >>

so im wondering, does anyone make upgraded twins w/ completely different manifold/compressor housings? cuz the way I understand it, that's the main problem twins face in producing higher hp #s (400+)...am I correct?

and if my understanding is correct, do most upgrades use the same manifold/compressor housings simply to keep the twins plug n play? cuz i would have NO prob havin my engine bay gutted if i could get some incredibly high flowing twins capable of 450hp or somethin in that area...

another thing...i understand the twins will need to run at higher boost to generate such hp #s (when compared to a large single), and thus they'll generate lots of heat. but is this when we're talking prolonged consistant boost? cuz for my applications (primarily street use, NOT primarily drag/track use), would such heat still be an issue? cuz they'd be maxing out for what... a minute or so? not consistant long periods...all day long

lastly...even in the case of upgraded twins making something like goodfellas' 376hp, couldn't you get considerable hp gains (to compensate for the twins' hp limit) by getting a fairly aggressive engine port?

Shinobi-X

Why not try to get a ride, or if you can, drive the two types of turbo setups you are looking for from local members? For some, stock twins are great, and I've seen 10's on the track from local members on the stockers (though rare). Even if you are not making 10s, a mid to high 11 car is still fast. Lag is not so much the issue some people make it out to be on the smaller quicker spooling singles, for example on the highway (assuming you stay within your powerband which is not grossly high anyway). In most cases I've seen and as far as I'm concerned, the mid and top end more than make up for it, while usable power is there when you need it. As far as low end goes, if you are just commuting, a downshift or punch of the throttle should be enough to pass most cars you need to get around- doesn't matter if its single or twin setup. A good driver for either is key if you are looking for low ETs, but IMO single is the way to go. Again, try to experience both as its really a matter of how comfortable you are with either application, and what type of driving you do with the car.

AznPhoenix

non seq twins? wat? wat r those? how do they work. the stock twins r seq... im confused..

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

I'mma get this one real quick...before you REALLY get flamed (note: ppl on this forum seem to be VERY insensitive to newbies who don't search...which, they kind of have a right to do, since there's a WEALTH of info on the forum if you use the search option)

Almost every single car that's twin turbo has a non sequential setup...both turbos come online at the same time (also known as running in parallel). This includes supras, 300zx, s4 (audi), 3000gt vr4, etc.

one of the greatest (IMHO) inventions Mazda came up w/ was sequential turbos, so the first turbo comes online virtually instantly, and provides prespool to the second turbo...which will come online later on at higher rpm. In doing so, there's virtually no time lost in spooling up (which you'll get in parallel twins and single turbos), and also, the power curve is relatively constant throughout...

A lot of people who aren't satisified w/ the ETs and torque they're getting w/ sequential turbos modify the twins to run parallel (there's a simple reversible way, and a permanent way as well).

Hope that helps some.

AznPhoenix

which is better? sorry i have hardly anytime to do a in depth search...

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

see it works both ways...the experts on this forum hardly have time to waste on newbie questions that have been answered 1000 times over...hence the attitude you'll get from other members.

oh and buddy...it's not in depth at all. click on the search button (top right, right underneath the white rx7) then type in something like "twins parallel" and you'll get some real good threads that'll hit the point straight home

not that i want to make you work, but a) i dont know enough to answer your question, and b) i dont think anyone's gonna put forth the effort to answer it for ya if they know you can just search for it...

(where's mahjik w/ the links when ya need him haha)

RX-7racer88

If you want really good numbers at the track and top end go with a good sized single. The twins are good for better off the line responce b/c they spool faster then a single does. If you do the right tuning with the twins it is posable to make mid 11's. The only real complant I would have on a single turbo is the lag. Other then that again for top speed or good numbers at the track a single is the way to go.