THE TRUTH? Registering a JDM FD in the USA...
#1
RX7 N00B
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dudley, MA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
THE TRUTH? Registering a JDM FD in the USA...
Okay... searching is getting me nowhere, I see many stories saying NO, but then I see some that saying YES, but these threads are multiple years old, and laws change from year to year... Then I ask people that own FD related shops if TRUE legalization is possible, and I hear yes AND no! What gives? Can someone give me a 100% Definitive answer? I don't want to F the system, I am not interested into sinking money into a scrap heap...
I will keep looking but this is just getting irritating lol! THANKS GUYS!
I will keep looking but this is just getting irritating lol! THANKS GUYS!
#3
RX7 N00B
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dudley, MA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was just about to say screw this thread, I am just going to call the DMV direct...
if it's no then I wont even bother... $3000 difference in price between cars isn't worth possibly having it crushed.
next question? HAH! My search bar is about to explode brother, you don't even know... I truly am an RX7 N00B and not afraid to admit it... I come from Nissan land... but I am learning and getting sucked into rotary world VERY fast! haha Thanks for the answer either way
if it's no then I wont even bother... $3000 difference in price between cars isn't worth possibly having it crushed.
next question? HAH! My search bar is about to explode brother, you don't even know... I truly am an RX7 N00B and not afraid to admit it... I come from Nissan land... but I am learning and getting sucked into rotary world VERY fast! haha Thanks for the answer either way
#4
Sir Braps A lot
there is a yes/no answer can it be done yes, if you live in the right place and know the right people. but for most people considering it no it cant be done due to inspection and emission laws.
#5
RX7 N00B
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dudley, MA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This might help some people too... maybe this thread can clear ALL doubt once and for all about this subject....
Taken from Wikipedia...
The United States continues to use a unique set of safety and emission regulations for motor vehicles, which differ significantly from the internationalised ECE Regulations used throughout the rest of the world. Vehicle manufacturers thus face considerable expense to type-certify a vehicle for U.S. sale, at a cost estimated to be upward of USD $2 million per vehicle model. This cost particularly impacts low-volume manufacturers and models, most notably the makers of high end sports cars. However, larger companies such as Alfa Romeo and Peugeot have also cited costs of 'Federalizing' their vehicle lineups as a disincentive to re-enter the U.S. market.
NHTSA and EPA regulations criminalise the possession of a vehicle not meeting U.S. standards. Even Canadian-market vehicles may not meet these requirements. Exceptions exist for foreign nationals touring the US in their own vehicle and for cars imported for show or display purposes.
Because of the unavailability of certain cars, demand for grey market vehicles arose in the late 1970s. Importing them into the US involved modifying or adding certain equipment, such as Headlamps, sidemarker lights, and a catalytic converter as required by the relevant regulations. NHTSA and EPA would review the paperwork and then approve possession of the vehicle. It was also possible for these agencies to reject the application and order the automobile destroyed or re-exported. The grey market provided an alternate method for Americans to acquire desirable vehicles, and still obtain certification. Tens of thousands of cars were imported this way each year during the 1980s.
The Lamborghini Countach was one of the first grey market vehicles, encouraging the Italian manufacturer to prepare a U.S. model. The Range Rover was initially available only through the grey market, and the popularity of the model eventually convinced the parent company to re-enter the U.S. market in 1987. Other manufacturers, like PSA Peugeot Citroën with the CX and Renault with the mid-engine Renault 5 Turbo, missed the signals sent by the grey market about American consumer tastes and demand.
This avenue was increasingly successful, especially in cases where only lower-specification models were officially offered on the US market. For example, Mercedes-Benz chose to offer only the lower-output 380SEL model to Americans in 1981, ensuring a huge demand for the much faster 500SEL available in the rest of the world. BMW had the same issue with their 745i Turbo. The grey market was successful enough that it ate significantly into the business of Mercedes-Benz of North America and their dealers. The corporation launched a successful million-dollar congressional lobbying effort to stop private importation of vehicles not officially intended for the U.S. market. An organisation called AICA (Automotive Importers Compliance Association) was formed by importers in California, Florida, New York, Texas, and elsewhere to counter some of these actions by Mercedes lobbyists, but the Motor Vehicle Safety Compliance Act was passed in 1988, effectively ending private import of grey-market vehicles to the United States. No evidence was presented that grey-import vehicles' safety performance differed significantly from that of US models, and there have been allegations of improper lobbying, but the issue has never been raised in court.
It is no longer possible to import a non-US vehicle into the United States as a personal import, with some exceptions. For example, an individual can import a vehicle manufactured to Canadian motor vehicle safety standards if the original manufacturer issues a letter stating that the vehicle also conforms to US motor vehicle standards. The decision to issue a compliance letter is solely at the discretion of the manufacturer, even if the vehicle is known to meet US standards. Before issuing a compliance letter, most manufacturers request proof that the owner of the vehicle is a resident of Canada, and that the car was registered and used in Canada for a minimum period. This is done because the manufacturers maintain separate pricing structures for the US and Canadian markets.
In 1998, NHTSA granted vehicles over 25 years of age dispensation from the rules it administers, since these are presumed to be collector vehicles.[2] It is also possible to certify the car though a Registered Importer for DOT work and an Independent Commercial Importer for EPA work.[3] Those who import nonconforming motor vehicles sometimes bring in more than one car at a time to spread the cost of the necessary destructive testing, modification, and safety certification. Destructive crash testing is not always needed if the vehicle can be shown to be substantially similar to a model sold in the US. The Smart Fortwo is imported in this manner. Finally, the Show or Display law allows temporary import of noncompliant vehicles for show or display purposes.
One vehicle with grey market-related notoriety is the Nissan Skyline. In 1999, a California company called Motorex had a number of R33 GTS25s crash-tested. They submitted their information to NHTSA and petitioned for 1990-1999 GT-Rs and GTSs to be declared eligible for import.[4] Many Skylines were subsequently imported through Motorex. This lasted until late 2005, when NHTSA learned not all 1990 through 1999 Skyline models would perform identically in crash testing. Motorex had submitted information for only the R33, but had asserted that the data applied to R32, R33, and R34 models.[4] NHTSA determined that only 1996-1998 R33 models have been demonstrated as capable of being modified to meet the federal motor vehicle safety standards, and that only those models are eligible for import. In March 2006, Motorex ceased all imports and Motorex principal Hiroaki "Hiro" Nanahoshi was arrested and held on $1 million bail on financial, kidnapping, and assault charges
NHTSA and EPA regulations criminalise the possession of a vehicle not meeting U.S. standards. Even Canadian-market vehicles may not meet these requirements. Exceptions exist for foreign nationals touring the US in their own vehicle and for cars imported for show or display purposes.
Because of the unavailability of certain cars, demand for grey market vehicles arose in the late 1970s. Importing them into the US involved modifying or adding certain equipment, such as Headlamps, sidemarker lights, and a catalytic converter as required by the relevant regulations. NHTSA and EPA would review the paperwork and then approve possession of the vehicle. It was also possible for these agencies to reject the application and order the automobile destroyed or re-exported. The grey market provided an alternate method for Americans to acquire desirable vehicles, and still obtain certification. Tens of thousands of cars were imported this way each year during the 1980s.
The Lamborghini Countach was one of the first grey market vehicles, encouraging the Italian manufacturer to prepare a U.S. model. The Range Rover was initially available only through the grey market, and the popularity of the model eventually convinced the parent company to re-enter the U.S. market in 1987. Other manufacturers, like PSA Peugeot Citroën with the CX and Renault with the mid-engine Renault 5 Turbo, missed the signals sent by the grey market about American consumer tastes and demand.
This avenue was increasingly successful, especially in cases where only lower-specification models were officially offered on the US market. For example, Mercedes-Benz chose to offer only the lower-output 380SEL model to Americans in 1981, ensuring a huge demand for the much faster 500SEL available in the rest of the world. BMW had the same issue with their 745i Turbo. The grey market was successful enough that it ate significantly into the business of Mercedes-Benz of North America and their dealers. The corporation launched a successful million-dollar congressional lobbying effort to stop private importation of vehicles not officially intended for the U.S. market. An organisation called AICA (Automotive Importers Compliance Association) was formed by importers in California, Florida, New York, Texas, and elsewhere to counter some of these actions by Mercedes lobbyists, but the Motor Vehicle Safety Compliance Act was passed in 1988, effectively ending private import of grey-market vehicles to the United States. No evidence was presented that grey-import vehicles' safety performance differed significantly from that of US models, and there have been allegations of improper lobbying, but the issue has never been raised in court.
It is no longer possible to import a non-US vehicle into the United States as a personal import, with some exceptions. For example, an individual can import a vehicle manufactured to Canadian motor vehicle safety standards if the original manufacturer issues a letter stating that the vehicle also conforms to US motor vehicle standards. The decision to issue a compliance letter is solely at the discretion of the manufacturer, even if the vehicle is known to meet US standards. Before issuing a compliance letter, most manufacturers request proof that the owner of the vehicle is a resident of Canada, and that the car was registered and used in Canada for a minimum period. This is done because the manufacturers maintain separate pricing structures for the US and Canadian markets.
In 1998, NHTSA granted vehicles over 25 years of age dispensation from the rules it administers, since these are presumed to be collector vehicles.[2] It is also possible to certify the car though a Registered Importer for DOT work and an Independent Commercial Importer for EPA work.[3] Those who import nonconforming motor vehicles sometimes bring in more than one car at a time to spread the cost of the necessary destructive testing, modification, and safety certification. Destructive crash testing is not always needed if the vehicle can be shown to be substantially similar to a model sold in the US. The Smart Fortwo is imported in this manner. Finally, the Show or Display law allows temporary import of noncompliant vehicles for show or display purposes.
One vehicle with grey market-related notoriety is the Nissan Skyline. In 1999, a California company called Motorex had a number of R33 GTS25s crash-tested. They submitted their information to NHTSA and petitioned for 1990-1999 GT-Rs and GTSs to be declared eligible for import.[4] Many Skylines were subsequently imported through Motorex. This lasted until late 2005, when NHTSA learned not all 1990 through 1999 Skyline models would perform identically in crash testing. Motorex had submitted information for only the R33, but had asserted that the data applied to R32, R33, and R34 models.[4] NHTSA determined that only 1996-1998 R33 models have been demonstrated as capable of being modified to meet the federal motor vehicle safety standards, and that only those models are eligible for import. In March 2006, Motorex ceased all imports and Motorex principal Hiroaki "Hiro" Nanahoshi was arrested and held on $1 million bail on financial, kidnapping, and assault charges
#6
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (14)
You could spend $100k plus on a legalization process (involving a Registered Importer) that may certify the FD (involving crash testing two cars that you supply to the DOT, making necessary emissions and crash test modifications etc.) but that would just be silly given the value of these cars and the fact that there is no substantial differences between RHD and LHD models.
#7
RX7 N00B
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dudley, MA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.importexporthelp.com/importing-cars.htm
This is one other thing I just found... As in the letter you showed above, right in bold print it says that if you are found to be in possession of a vehicle that is not in compliance with regulations, it is subject to seizure and destruction.
So in 5 minutes of MORE searching I had my answer anyway haha! I get too impatient sometimes I guess.... But maybe this thread should be a sticky to really give everyone a definitive answer from now on? Up to the mods I guess... THANKS GUYS!
Time to find me a USDM car and get this 3rotor ball rolling!
This is one other thing I just found... As in the letter you showed above, right in bold print it says that if you are found to be in possession of a vehicle that is not in compliance with regulations, it is subject to seizure and destruction.
So in 5 minutes of MORE searching I had my answer anyway haha! I get too impatient sometimes I guess.... But maybe this thread should be a sticky to really give everyone a definitive answer from now on? Up to the mods I guess... THANKS GUYS!
Time to find me a USDM car and get this 3rotor ball rolling!
Trending Topics
#10
Don't worry be happy...
iTrader: (1)
oh boy not this again... FYI- Even those that have been able to import an FD once can't seem to do it again (so it's truly a yes/no answer):
https://www.rx7club.com/build-threads-292/cym-re-build-thread-906283/
You are much better off just getting a USDM FD (as you already said )
https://www.rx7club.com/build-threads-292/cym-re-build-thread-906283/
You are much better off just getting a USDM FD (as you already said )
Last edited by Montego; 01-26-11 at 04:34 PM.
#11
What makes a RHD a RHD?
In essence if you had a '93 Shell, and parted out a RHD and rebuilt the '93 with everything from the RHD, that would work wouldn't it?
Or the same as, taking a '93 outer shell skin, and removing and dropping it onto a RHD Frame and putting all the components back together...It wouldn't be registered to the right frame date...but what is the VIN connected to? The Outer shell.
I noticed some shops working on classic cars would remove the outer shell skin and put it on a gimp frame when they were having it resprayed before installing it back onto the original frame... I would imagine the same could be done with the FD...everything would be RHD except the outer frame skin (roof/rear quarters etc..)
~CYD
In essence if you had a '93 Shell, and parted out a RHD and rebuilt the '93 with everything from the RHD, that would work wouldn't it?
Or the same as, taking a '93 outer shell skin, and removing and dropping it onto a RHD Frame and putting all the components back together...It wouldn't be registered to the right frame date...but what is the VIN connected to? The Outer shell.
I noticed some shops working on classic cars would remove the outer shell skin and put it on a gimp frame when they were having it resprayed before installing it back onto the original frame... I would imagine the same could be done with the FD...everything would be RHD except the outer frame skin (roof/rear quarters etc..)
~CYD
#12
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (14)
I noticed some shops working on classic cars would remove the outer shell skin and put it on a gimp frame when they were having it resprayed before installing it back onto the original frame... I would imagine the same could be done with the FD...everything would be RHD except the outer frame skin (roof/rear quarters etc..)
#13
Lives on the Forum
iTrader: (83)
What makes a RHD a RHD?
In essence if you had a '93 Shell, and parted out a RHD and rebuilt the '93 with everything from the RHD, that would work wouldn't it?
Or the same as, taking a '93 outer shell skin, and removing and dropping it onto a RHD Frame and putting all the components back together...It wouldn't be registered to the right frame date...but what is the VIN connected to? The Outer shell.
I noticed some shops working on classic cars would remove the outer shell skin and put it on a gimp frame when they were having it resprayed before installing it back onto the original frame... I would imagine the same could be done with the FD...everything would be RHD except the outer frame skin (roof/rear quarters etc..)
~CYD
In essence if you had a '93 Shell, and parted out a RHD and rebuilt the '93 with everything from the RHD, that would work wouldn't it?
Or the same as, taking a '93 outer shell skin, and removing and dropping it onto a RHD Frame and putting all the components back together...It wouldn't be registered to the right frame date...but what is the VIN connected to? The Outer shell.
I noticed some shops working on classic cars would remove the outer shell skin and put it on a gimp frame when they were having it resprayed before installing it back onto the original frame... I would imagine the same could be done with the FD...everything would be RHD except the outer frame skin (roof/rear quarters etc..)
~CYD
Check str8ryd's car. He is selling a RHD conversion in the forums.
#14
#16
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know the complete story behind it, but the person that I bought my FD from, sold it to me because he purchased a 2002-FD. Granted it was already imported and had paperwork before he got it, but it's in his possession and registered perfectly legally. Next time I talk to him I'll ask him about it.
It might also help that it's in Florida, you can put an engine on a coconut and get it registered as a honda here.
It might also help that it's in Florida, you can put an engine on a coconut and get it registered as a honda here.
#18
Moderator
iTrader: (5)
I've known several people who have done it. As I understand it, as long as you import a Series 6, you're okay...anything newer than a 96 is a no-no...
And, it depends on the state as well...It's just like those lucky few who have Eunos Cosmos registered and such here in the states.
And, it depends on the state as well...It's just like those lucky few who have Eunos Cosmos registered and such here in the states.
#19
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (14)
I've known several people who have done it. As I understand it, as long as you import a Series 6, you're okay...anything newer than a 96 is a no-no...
And, it depends on the state as well...It's just like those lucky few who have Eunos Cosmos registered and such here in the states.
And, it depends on the state as well...It's just like those lucky few who have Eunos Cosmos registered and such here in the states.
This has been covered many times in many previous threads: Yes, there have been cases of people registering FDs in states with sloppy registration laws (see Florida above; most of these states seem to be in the South). A state registration and associated title do not make a car legally imported, which is governed by federal requirements - and those supersede state laws.
All these cars are illegally imported. No grey area, no uncertainty - they are all completely illegal.
#20
Moderator
iTrader: (7)
I've known several people who have done it. As I understand it, as long as you import a Series 6, you're okay...anything newer than a 96 is a no-no...
And, it depends on the state as well...It's just like those lucky few who have Eunos Cosmos registered and such here in the states.
And, it depends on the state as well...It's just like those lucky few who have Eunos Cosmos registered and such here in the states.
If it matters that much to you go for it, spend the money and you will probably find an importer willing to play the game. And if you're creative you can get paperwork in most states. But that doesn't make it legal, it just adds fraud to the situation.
There have been many of these threads in the past, thank you OP for doing some research and finding an answer that suits your decision.
#21
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,826
Received 2,594 Likes
on
1,842 Posts
Sorry, but you are just adding unnecessary confusion here. The key word here is legal, which is what the OP asked about.
This has been covered many times in many previous threads: Yes, there have been cases of people registering FDs in states with sloppy registration laws (see Florida above; most of these states seem to be in the South). A state registration and associated title do not make a car legally imported, which is governed by federal requirements - and those supersede state laws.
All these cars are illegally imported. No grey area, no uncertainty - they are all completely illegal.
This has been covered many times in many previous threads: Yes, there have been cases of people registering FDs in states with sloppy registration laws (see Florida above; most of these states seem to be in the South). A state registration and associated title do not make a car legally imported, which is governed by federal requirements - and those supersede state laws.
All these cars are illegally imported. No grey area, no uncertainty - they are all completely illegal.
BUT
its not FEDERALLY legal. so the FEDS can come and seize it anytime they want.
#22
RX7 N00B
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dudley, MA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's really not even the whole RHD allure that interests me in the car to be honest... The prices just seem to be cheaper... If I wanted to be JDM Tyteee I would just do the RHD conversion, but why? Added cost, more work than it's worth and then you can't hit mcdonalds on a cruise unless you get out of the car and go in... or have some awesome reverse skills...
LEGAL... 100% LEGAL was my question, I have never been a fan of bucking the system because in all honesty, it WILL bite you sooner or later... it happened to my buddy Mike back in FL... had a beautiful 800+ AWHP R32 GTR that had a Nur Spec R34 RB26 swapped into it as the base engine by him... One day he had a guy show up with a flat bed and a seizure notice and there was absolutely not one thing he could do about it... 50k + in that car and all he has to remember it by is pictures now... That is what I want to avoid... if it's able to be done legally (for a reasonable cost) then sure, it might be worth it, but if it is going to cost me more than 10k total (the median cost of a 100k mile FD) then what is the true point? to be cool? no thanks...
LEGAL... 100% LEGAL was my question, I have never been a fan of bucking the system because in all honesty, it WILL bite you sooner or later... it happened to my buddy Mike back in FL... had a beautiful 800+ AWHP R32 GTR that had a Nur Spec R34 RB26 swapped into it as the base engine by him... One day he had a guy show up with a flat bed and a seizure notice and there was absolutely not one thing he could do about it... 50k + in that car and all he has to remember it by is pictures now... That is what I want to avoid... if it's able to be done legally (for a reasonable cost) then sure, it might be worth it, but if it is going to cost me more than 10k total (the median cost of a 100k mile FD) then what is the true point? to be cool? no thanks...
#23
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (34)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: japan
Posts: 771
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It can't be done legally. It can be done illegally, with the constant worry of it being taken from you.
It can't be done by taking it apart and reassembling it, can't be done by cutting it in half, can't be done if you're in the military. I've known many here that have tried all of these things.
What was the company that the Feds went after and seized/crushed all their 'kit cars'? Keizo or something like that?
The only way it would be legal is if Mazda certified that the RHD's meet the same safety guidelines as LHD's. That will never happen thanks to the national pastime of opening lawsuits.
It can't be done by taking it apart and reassembling it, can't be done by cutting it in half, can't be done if you're in the military. I've known many here that have tried all of these things.
What was the company that the Feds went after and seized/crushed all their 'kit cars'? Keizo or something like that?
The only way it would be legal is if Mazda certified that the RHD's meet the same safety guidelines as LHD's. That will never happen thanks to the national pastime of opening lawsuits.
#25
RX7 N00B
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dudley, MA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
USDM FD is going for between 9500 and 11500 with 100k miles.
JDM FD can be had in Canada for between 6500 and 8500 depending on condition... miles are MUCH lower as well...
It's really not even the whole RHD allure that interests me in the car to be honest... The prices just seem to be cheaper... If I wanted to be JDM Tyteee I would just do the RHD conversion, but why? Added cost, more work than it's worth and then you can't hit mcdonalds on a cruise unless you get out of the car and go in... or have some awesome reverse skills...
LEGAL... 100% LEGAL was my question, I have never been a fan of bucking the system because in all honesty, it WILL bite you sooner or later... it happened to my buddy Mike back in FL... had a beautiful 800+ AWHP R32 GTR that had a Nur Spec R34 RB26 swapped into it as the base engine by him... One day he had a guy show up with a flat bed and a seizure notice and there was absolutely not one thing he could do about it... 50k + in that car and all he has to remember it by is pictures now... That is what I want to avoid... if it's able to be done legally (for a reasonable cost) then sure, it might be worth it, but if it is going to cost me more than 10k total (the median cost of a 100k mile FD) then what is the true point? to be cool? no thanks...
LEGAL... 100% LEGAL was my question, I have never been a fan of bucking the system because in all honesty, it WILL bite you sooner or later... it happened to my buddy Mike back in FL... had a beautiful 800+ AWHP R32 GTR that had a Nur Spec R34 RB26 swapped into it as the base engine by him... One day he had a guy show up with a flat bed and a seizure notice and there was absolutely not one thing he could do about it... 50k + in that car and all he has to remember it by is pictures now... That is what I want to avoid... if it's able to be done legally (for a reasonable cost) then sure, it might be worth it, but if it is going to cost me more than 10k total (the median cost of a 100k mile FD) then what is the true point? to be cool? no thanks...
Last edited by Phil Jacques; 01-26-11 at 07:19 PM.