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One last question.
While I have the fuel system apart, should I be considering replacing vacuum tubing with silicone, as well as replacing or deleting the FPD?
I've heard the FPD is known to fail at about 60k miles and this car is currently at 55k. Are there any drawbacks to deleting the FPD?
I would be following this writeup: FD3s Pulsation Damper Elimination
But I would prefer to use metric components as this writeup is in imperial components.
If there is a writeup for that as well that would be helpful, otherwise I'll figure it out on my own and post about it.
Silicone hose would be a good thing to do while you are in there, and contact DaleClark for his Viton check valves. They are cheap and a huge improvement over stock.
As far as the FPD, I wouldn't get hung up on metric vs whatever. They are using a NPT threaded fitting. These are tapered and commonly found, both the fitting and tap. BPST which would be the metric equivalent is very hard to find. Not worth it.
Silicone hose would be a good thing to do while you are in there, and contact DaleClark for his Viton check valves. They are cheap and a huge improvement over stock.
As far as the FPD, I wouldn't get hung up on metric vs whatever. They are using a NPT threaded fitting. These are tapered and commonly found, both the fitting and tap. BPST which would be the metric equivalent is very hard to find. Not worth it.
Vince
EDIT 2: I've decided against using a metric parallel thread hose barb.
Reason being it depends on the O-ring in order to create a seal and introducing a heat-sensitive rubber point-of-failure into the fuel system is the opposite of what I'm trying to achieve with the FPD delete.
EDIT: On second thought, I'm not quite sure about the thickness of the thread body on NPT fittings and I think M8 is probably to small. Guess I'll have to do some more digging or just give up and go imperial.
Would this not work? Would just hook up to 8mm fuel hose which i believe is factory spec right?
The picture of a good compression, may be legit - or it may just be a picture.
You should be able to "borrow" a piston tester from a local parts store (which should be an essential service, just make sure to wear a mask). It won't give you exact readings on all rotor surfaces, but it will at least let you know what your max compression is. You can then put your finger on the plug hole to feel if all the compressions are consistent. You'll want to test hot at ~250 RPM and WOT. Remove the fuel pump breaker so you're not pumping fuel when you do the test. I find it easiest to access the plugs from underneath the car. If you get a reading ~90 and all the compressions feel consistent, then you should be able to rest easy with the readings the importer gave you and can move on to other potential problems.
The picture of a good compression, may be legit - or it may just be a picture.
You should be able to "borrow" a piston tester from a local parts store (which should be an essential service, just make sure to wear a mask). It won't give you exact readings on all rotor surfaces, but it will at least let you know what your max compression is. You can then put your finger on the plug hole to feel if all the compressions are consistent. You'll want to test hot at ~250 RPM and WOT. Remove the fuel pump breaker so you're not pumping fuel when you do the test. I find it easiest to access the plugs from underneath the car. If you get a reading ~90 and all the compressions feel consistent, then you should be able to rest easy with the readings the importer gave you and can move on to other potential problems.
My 2 cents.
Thanks for the advice Tom.
I've done compression tests on my old rx-8 with regular compression gauges before so I'm aware of the proper procedure.
I did have an issue with regular gauges showing inaccurate readings on a rotary. It was about 15% lower than what the mazda tester reported soon after.
If this is not a common problem then I will go ahead and have it done with a regular piston tester at the local auto shop, as I don't have a jack or a garage where I currently live, nor a second pair of hands to crank while recording the readings.
I do have faith in the numbers reported by this JDM importer though, as they have an established track record of selling good cars (over 8 RHD FD's in the past 2 years and zero complaints on all review sites)
It would also seem weird to misreport compression readings on the vehicle with such relatively low numbers in my opinion. I have seen other vehicles listed by them with compression well over 110 PSI on this tester, so it would probably make more sense if they were to include higher numbers in the listing from those other cars.
Also, I have started a new thread about the compression on this car, where I explain that I forgot to normalize the readings for RPM. After normalizing, the compression on the engine on all faces is in the 80's which is hardly what I would call good.
I was having hot start problems on my car, so know the dread. Have a piston tester, and it read pretty low. Wasn't sure because i couldn't get to 250 rpms, so i bought a rotary tester. Sure enough, low and in line with the piston tester.
80s is worn, but still functional. Mine is low 70s on the good rotor and mid 60s or so on the not so good rotor - and it still starts and seems to run strong, just has hot start issues.
You may also have injector issues. Getting to them is not hard, just takes time. The only issue is you may disrupt something getting to them. And then there's the slippery slope. Do your vacuum hoses need replacing, etc etc.
Although your compression is ok (for now), because of other potential age related issues (all the things that may need "fixing"), you may just want to bite the bullet and have it completely upgraded (to include an engine rebuild). What would suck is doing a lot of work and then having to go back in a year or so later and having to do more work.
I was having hot start problems on my car, so know the dread. Have a piston tester, and it read pretty low. Wasn't sure because i couldn't get to 250 rpms, so i bought a rotary tester. Sure enough, low and in line with the piston tester.
80s is worn, but still functional. Mine is low 70s on the good rotor and mid 60s or so on the not so good rotor - and it still starts and seems to run strong, just has hot start issues.
You may also have injector issues. Getting to them is not hard, just takes time. The only issue is you may disrupt something getting to them. And then there's the slippery slope. Do your vacuum hoses need replacing, etc etc.
Although your compression is ok (for now), because of other potential age related issues (all the things that may need "fixing"), you may just want to bite the bullet and have it completely upgraded (to include an engine rebuild). What would suck is doing a lot of work and then having to go back in a year or so later and having to do more work.
The bill of work for the near future is:
plugs
oil change
Injector cleaning & flow testing, Replacement if necessary
silicone vacuum lines
fuel filter
viton check valves
shifter bearing
FPD Delete (or replacement, haven't decided yet)
FPR replacement
coolant flush
possible coolant hose replacement, but mine seem to be in good condition
Why delete the FPD when new ones are still available, N3A2-20-180. Can also change the FPR while it's all apart, N3A1-13-280.
As others have said, start with a compression test. No need to throw parts at it just yet.
Regarding the FPD Delete-- see this page detailing Injector-rehab's (KGparts) thoughts about an FPD delete on the rx-7. https://injector-rehab.com/shop/fpd.html
They've worked on hundreds or thousands of times more injectors than any of us have worked on so I'll trust their guidance on this and go ahead with the (cheaper) FPD delete option.
As for the FPR, I'm still debating whether I should do an aftermarket swap.
I seriously doubt the pulsation dampener is a problem or will be a problem. The FC had leaking issues with the FPD, I don't think I've ever personally worked on an FD with a leaking FPD. Your car is reasonable mileage, I would just leave it be.
You do have an air pump FYI - it's the large pump with belt driven pulley right behind the stock air box. Since the car is pretty much stock, leave it be at this point. Reason I was asking is if the air pump has been removed or isn't running on a stock FD the car will idle like crap and be jerky on/off throttle. You can easily make sure it's working - with the car at idle, the pulley on the pump should be engaged and you can see it spinning. If you grab the throttle with your hand and rev it up you should see the pump disengage and re-engage as it comes back to idle.
FYI, pulling the fuel injectors is a CHORE. They are DEEP under the intake manifold. You are relatively new to RX-7's from what I can gather and this is a MAJOR job. You have to disconnect a whole lot of the harness and vacuum lines under the intake manifold to get down to it. I would seriously start with running fuel injector cleaner through the tank and put a new set of spark plugs in the car. Drive a tank of gas through it and see if it improves. Don't be scared to get on it, the secondary injectors only kick in at higher RPM so if you just drive easy around town they won't get any fuel through them and won't get any cleaner through them either.
If that doesn't help, I would get some quotes from some rotary shops (IRP is relatively close to you (New Jersey)) on pulling the injectors and cleaning.
I seriously doubt the pulsation dampener is a problem or will be a problem. The FC had leaking issues with the FPD, I don't think I've ever personally worked on an FD with a leaking FPD. Your car is reasonable mileage, I would just leave it be.
You do have an air pump FYI - it's the large pump with belt driven pulley right behind the stock air box. Since the car is pretty much stock, leave it be at this point. Reason I was asking is if the air pump has been removed or isn't running on a stock FD the car will idle like crap and be jerky on/off throttle. You can easily make sure it's working - with the car at idle, the pulley on the pump should be engaged and you can see it spinning. If you grab the throttle with your hand and rev it up you should see the pump disengage and re-engage as it comes back to idle.
FYI, pulling the fuel injectors is a CHORE. They are DEEP under the intake manifold. You are relatively new to RX-7's from what I can gather and this is a MAJOR job. You have to disconnect a whole lot of the harness and vacuum lines under the intake manifold to get down to it. I would seriously start with running fuel injector cleaner through the tank and put a new set of spark plugs in the car. Drive a tank of gas through it and see if it improves. Don't be scared to get on it, the secondary injectors only kick in at higher RPM so if you just drive easy around town they won't get any fuel through them and won't get any cleaner through them either.
If that doesn't help, I would get some quotes from some rotary shops (IRP is relatively close to you (New Jersey)) on pulling the injectors and cleaning.
Dale
Hey Dale,
I appreciate the advice. Unfortunately for me I've already started on this monster of a job this morning.
I do have experience with pulling the injectors and doing a full engine swap on the RENESIS 13b from when I built a turbo RX-8 in college.
The rx-8 is pretty much 85% identical to this car, except with maybe 1/3rd the number of vacuum lines and an electric air injection pump instead of the big bulky belt driven one on this car. See below
What I do have going for me is that I've labeled every vacuum line and connector that I've pulled apart and the lines are so rock solid that they retain their shape pretty well and show me where they're supposed to go.
All nuts and bolts are also spoken for and finger threaded onto where they belong after being taken off the car.
What I don't have going for me is that I've already snapped 4 of these fossilized vacuum lines. Oh well, it was bound to happen.
Unfortunately All of them will have to be replaced with silicone lines, and I'm REALLY not looking forward to that part of the job
It seems the previous owner simplified the vacuum lines on this car and removed some unnecessary ones, I also noticed the dual throttle cable system was simplified to just one throttle cable.
I called it wraps for the day still not having gotten to the fuel rail, but I'm pretty close to removing the rat's nest bracket. I'm currently trying to locate the one or two bolts that hold the bracket down on the LIM side of the engine. I would appreciate if someone could tell me where they are.
See my progress in the pictures below: Snapped vac line Some vac lines have been removed from the system Gaskets need replacement End of day progress Shifter bushing distintegrated Aftermarket ECU? Not sure what this is. Would appreciate if someone helped me identify this End of day progress, parts removed
1. Ditch those taillights as soon as possible.
2. Don't store engine parts in the hatch. You will never get the smell out.
Vince
Duly noted. I don't have a garage so i guess I'll have to haul all of those parts into my house.
Now the question is, what's worse? Fuel/oil smell in the house or in the car? haha...
Are these taillights not OEM? They look pretty ok to me.
What in particular is so offensive about them?
If you like them keep them, it's a taste issue, but they look wrong on the car. They are trying to cheaply make the RX-7 look like the RX-8. There is no other chrome on the car so it stands out. The 96+ circle tail lights look much better IMHO.
More importantly they are typically not made very well and usually start leaking or filling with water.
If you like them keep them, it's a taste issue, but they look wrong on the car. They are trying to cheaply make the RX-7 look like the RX-8. There is no other chrome on the car so it stands out. The 96+ circle tail lights look much better IMHO.
More importantly they are typically not made very well and usually start leaking or filling with water.
Vince
I guess actually owning an RX-8 made me numb to seeing the rx-8 style headlights. I didn't notice it at all until you pointed it out.
Since it's nothing's wrong with them yet and taillights are a considerable expense, I'm just going to leave them on for now, but I do agree that the styling doesn't suit the car.
I'm going to have a pretty large bill racking up on this car in the next few months so the lights aren't a priority (yet).
Sales tax, registration, safety inspection, and insurance are going to run me $4k.
all of the maintenence items and repair parts including injector cleaning are going to run me ~$700
and I was quoted a reupholstery of the dashboard, gauge pod and center console for $1300 (the foam has hardened, come detached from the dash and is lifting up)
replacement interior trim pieces, new boots for the e-brake and shifter $200
Long road ahead of me... no money for headlights in the foreseeable future :'(
And in case you were wondering... yes, I'm going to eventually get the dash reupholstered in pink suede. It'll be a riot.
EDIT: Did some deeper digging by just browsing the atkins rotary catalog and found out it was the air control valve.
But I still can't find the part number for the smaller, symmetrical outlet gasket shown on the top right of the part. Help is appreciated, otherwise I might have to just reuse that gasket.
Need a little help identifying this part so I can order replacement gaskets for it.
It was held on by 3 nuts to the LIM. Looks like... a blowoff valve, or maybe a wastegate actuator? Has some kind of spring loaded release valve and is on the intake manifold, so I can't really think of anything else it could be.
Looked in the mazda service manual for engine teardown but I didn't actually see this part mentioned...
I'm currently trying to locate the one or two bolts that hold the bracket down on the LIM side of the engine. I would appreciate if someone could tell me where they are.
Someone can jump right in and correct me, but I believe all the ratsnest (and coil) securing hardware is all on the non-LIM side (I guess, oil filter side) of the engine. It's been a bit since I did this, but was looking at some old pictures and just see the four mounting holes on the housings (towards the bottom of the photo)
EDIT: Did some deeper digging by just browsing the atkins rotary catalog and found out it was the air control valve.
But I still can't find the part number for the smaller, symmetrical outlet gasket shown on the top right of the part. Help is appreciated, otherwise I might have to just reuse that gasket.
Need a little help identifying this part so I can order replacement gaskets for it.
It was held on by 3 nuts to the LIM. Looks like... a blowoff valve, or maybe a wastegate actuator? Has some kind of spring loaded release valve and is on the intake manifold, so I can't really think of anything else it could be.
Looked in the mazda service manual for engine teardown but I didn't actually see this part mentioned...
Best to download the factory service manuals and parts diagrams so you can lookup part numbers.
that isn't the right one. The gasket/opening currently on mine is perfectly symmetrical. I don't see how that one could fit. Maybe this is unique to RHD Japanese cars?
Ray Crowe is the man for OEM parts. Cheaper than Atkins or anywhere else for that matter and the best service a Mazda owner can hope for. crowe.ray@aol.com
He used to be the parts manager for Malloy Mazda and has since gone out on his own.
Someone can jump right in and correct me, but I believe all the ratsnest (and coil) securing hardware is all on the non-LIM side (I guess, oil filter side) of the engine. It's been a bit since I did this, but was looking at some old pictures and just see the four mounting holes on the housings (towards the bottom of the photo)
Thanks for this!
I guess the only thing holding my rats nest bracket in now is the remaining fossilized vacuum lines that are still attached... I'll have to work through them carefully.
Too bad it's going to be raining for most of the week so I won't get to wrench on the car until probably next weekend.
Yeah, the rat's nest is held in place to the top of the rotor housings. That's really it as far as bolts but there's so much stuff attached to it and the wiring harness is all wrapped up in it as well that it's a challenge.
The empty vacuum line you show is the line on US cars for the EGR valve. The JDM cars don't have EGR so it's empty. Personally when the rat's nest is off I would get a Dremel and a cut off wheel and remove that line.
For the vacuum lines, any that are baked on going to the individual solenoids you can just leave in place. They aren't going anywhere. For the others get a good quality silicone vacuum hose - I recommend boostcontroller.com their hose is priced right and is top quality. 3.5mm line is what you need for all the small lines in the rat's nest.
For the ACV gaskets, the ACV to intake manifold gasket is now metal. The original was paper. Get both sides scraped TOTALLY clean of old material and you won't have a problem. There's also a large flat check valve in there that looks like a wagon wheel - make SURE that's in place. The paper gasket from the ACV to the air pump pipe may be considered part of the ACV. Really, that gasket looks fine, just maybe give it a thin smear of RTV when you re-assemble. That's just low pressure air pump air in there.
On the vacuum lines, get a candlestick lighter - the ones that light with a trigger and have a long tube from the handle to the fire end. You can use it to heat up the ends of the vacuum lines, it will soften them and make them much easier to remove. Also LONG needle nose pliers - straight and 90 degree - are SUPER handy in this job.
Yeah, the rat's nest is held in place to the top of the rotor housings. That's really it as far as bolts but there's so much stuff attached to it and the wiring harness is all wrapped up in it as well that it's a challenge.
The empty vacuum line you show is the line on US cars for the EGR valve. The JDM cars don't have EGR so it's empty. Personally when the rat's nest is off I would get a Dremel and a cut off wheel and remove that line.
For the vacuum lines, any that are baked on going to the individual solenoids you can just leave in place. They aren't going anywhere. For the others get a good quality silicone vacuum hose - I recommend boostcontroller.com their hose is priced right and is top quality. 3.5mm line is what you need for all the small lines in the rat's nest.
For the ACV gaskets, the ACV to intake manifold gasket is now metal. The original was paper. Get both sides scraped TOTALLY clean of old material and you won't have a problem. There's also a large flat check valve in there that looks like a wagon wheel - make SURE that's in place. The paper gasket from the ACV to the air pump pipe may be considered part of the ACV. Really, that gasket looks fine, just maybe give it a thin smear of RTV when you re-assemble. That's just low pressure air pump air in there.
On the vacuum lines, get a candlestick lighter - the ones that light with a trigger and have a long tube from the handle to the fire end. You can use it to heat up the ends of the vacuum lines, it will soften them and make them much easier to remove. Also LONG needle nose pliers - straight and 90 degree - are SUPER handy in this job.
Dale
Thanks for all of this Dale! I actually read some of the same advice from you on a separate thread about vacuum hoses and already have the extra long needle nose pliers on the way!
Where exactly is the Wagon Wheel check valve located? I don't think I remember seeing it when i took everything out.
I THINK I see it in the picture with your lower intake manifold. You may want to post up a pic of where the ACV attaches to and I can tell you 100%.
That check valve is what sits between the ACV/air pump air side and the exhaust side. That lets air pump air into the exhaust but won't let exhaust go back upstream to the ACV and air pump. If you forget to install it or if it's not sitting flat you will have a substantial exhaust leak at the ACV that sounds like hell.
I THINK I see it in the picture with your lower intake manifold. You may want to post up a pic of where the ACV attaches to and I can tell you 100%.
That check valve is what sits between the ACV/air pump air side and the exhaust side. That lets air pump air into the exhaust but won't let exhaust go back upstream to the ACV and air pump. If you forget to install it or if it's not sitting flat you will have a substantial exhaust leak at the ACV that sounds like hell.
Dale
Oh is it the black thing that's integrated flush inside of the LIM? I think I remember seeing it now. Thanks!
04-24-20, 12:25 PM
