to TOKICO or Not
11-03-08, 09:08 AM
#51
You guys are forgetting something. The shocks may only be $500, but add $250-$300 in springs, plus if your upper mounts are bad I think they are something around $100 each from Mazda. The rubber dry rots and compresses and the dust boots and bump stops tear over time. If you put a new shock and lowering spring on old rubber, the fit will be sloppy and the car may sit too low. They you have all sorts of problems such as bottoming out and rubbing through the fender liners or worse, the body harness that runs above the front wheels. I've seen cars sit over and inch lower just because the stock rubber was compressed/damaged. If your upper mounts are still in decent shape, then the setup is still reasonably priced. Otherwise you might as well run a coilover.
11-03-08, 09:29 AM
#52
You will never get BMW ride quality in a Mazda. While the RX-7 suspension systems are very good for their time and even good by modern standards, BMW is far ahead. A lot of it has to do with the chassis design, suspension geometry, material choices, isolation from noise/vibration, etc. The RX-7 was designed to compete with cars much more expensive but cost half the price, so compromises had to be made. The car was just made too light by using sheet metal and plastic that was too thin vs using more exotic materials to keep the cost down. This transmits into a lot of noise/vibration/harshness in the suspension. There isn't enough sound deadening in the chassis either. The fact that the subframes are bolted directly to the body vs being isolated does wonders for handling, but nothing for ride quality. That being said, you can make it handle similar to a BMW, but you will never get the same solid feel or ride quality. If you re-did the entire suspension with a quality coilover, new bushings or upgraded ones, added some braces to the chassis like the Tanabe, Mazdaspeed or other, dynamatted the entire interior including the soda-can-thin doors and roof, and did something about the cheep creaky interior plastics, you may come somewhat close. To give an example of how solid a BMW chassis is and how well isolated it is, I was working on an early 2000s 325 xi recently. I had all the interior door panels off replacing window regulators and the car still felt more solid and had less noise entering the cabin that an RX-7. Just remember that everyone's tolerance and perception for this kind of stuff is different. So what may feel solid and well handling to one person may feel like a piece of garbage to another.
11-03-08, 10:34 AM
#53
Why not try ground control since they come with new upper mounts, and you can ask for custom spring rates. if you get your shocks from them (koni) you can have it the whole setup matched and assembled before it comes to your door. Tell them you want to go all out on ride smoothness or you want a ride similar to an E46. Im sure they will work with you
Last edited by pinkrx7; 11-03-08 at 10:36 AM.
11-03-08, 11:16 AM
#54
You guys are forgetting something. The shocks may only be $500, but add $250-$300 in springs, plus if your upper mounts are bad I think they are something around $100 each from Mazda. The rubber dry rots and compresses and the dust boots and bump stops tear over time. If you put a new shock and lowering spring on old rubber, the fit will be sloppy and the car may sit too low. They you have all sorts of problems such as bottoming out and rubbing through the fender liners or worse, the body harness that runs above the front wheels. I've seen cars sit over and inch lower just because the stock rubber was compressed/damaged. If your upper mounts are still in decent shape, then the setup is still reasonably priced. Otherwise you might as well run a coilover.
11-03-08, 03:16 PM
#55
I have toks with gc coilovers. I drive around in brooklyn and manhattan alot I can tell you, Im not to pleased. Every time I drive over a bump it feels like someone is punching my *** cheeks. NOT COOL. Im sure it has alot to do with the poor road conditions where I drive and it will be alot better some where else but it still sucks. I will be looking for new shocks in the future. On nice roads though, the car handles like a dream.
I felt the same way with the cheap Tein coilovers on Queens, LI, NYC, NJ streets. NYC streets just suck and any performance oriented suspension will make it worse. I was happiest in terms of ride quality with stock springs on stock shocks or Konis when I lived there.
I agree with pretty much everything Mahjik said on this. It mirrors my experiences with 6 different suspension setups on my 2 FDs over the years.
11-04-08, 11:22 AM
#61
I guess I need to call Tokico and see what they say. It may be that their ratios similar to the ones you suggested and worth a try. Too bad nobody sells them on eBay so I could use Microsoft cashback
11-04-08, 12:41 PM
#62
Bottom line: there are NEVER enough opinions on suspension components. I, too, have been researching this subject and have read most of the threads and still cannot make a decision. At least this new thread on this much discussed topic finally cleared up my confusion on coilovers. I bought new rubber upper mounts ($60 each) in preparation for my coilover install, but I guess I don't need those if I DO end up getting a coilover system, as it's built-in (unless I break apart the system to add the rubber - no point in that). But coilovers are metal to metal, which Howard Coleman does not recommend. But they are still very popular and has the best adjustability for ride height......
Shocks/Springs/Upper mounts almost = cost of lower end coil-overs, but it sounds like lower end coilovers aren't worth it. I want to adjust my ride height with some performance thrown in. Is Ground Control my answer? Good thing I can return the rubber mounts.
Shocks/Springs/Upper mounts almost = cost of lower end coil-overs, but it sounds like lower end coilovers aren't worth it. I want to adjust my ride height with some performance thrown in. Is Ground Control my answer? Good thing I can return the rubber mounts.
11-04-08, 04:01 PM
#63
The GC coil overs have a polyurethane pad at the top to help dampen some of the noise, vibration and harshness one would feel from metal to metal spring against mounting surface. That pad is much smaller than the OEM upper shock mount but it definitely helps.
Other coil overs have this also. Which ones exactly, I don't know. I know the bottom of the line Tein's re-use the OEM upper shock mounts which helps on the NVH side quite a bit.
Zoolander - I've written replies on a few threads on my opinions regarding the various suspension setups I've had on threads in the suspension section. You are welcome to search for them using my user name. My impressions were focused mainly from the street perspective so its not to be compared to howard coleman's excellent thread and advice on his track/street oriented thread in the Suspension section (which is an excellent and informative thread that is well worth a read).
The problem with trying to search forums for information on suspension setups and ride quality in particular is that a lot of the info is very subjective - a matter of opinion. Making it more complicated is that you don't know the frame of reference of the person writing the review. A 20 year old's impression of good ride quality is a lot different than a 40 or 60 year old's impression.
Furthermore, the specific roads you drive on in your area will affect your impression of a given suspension package also. If you drive on the comparatively smooth,well kept roads of Cali compared to frost heave, broken up roads of NYC for example, your opinion on a good riding suspension will differ greatly.
Other coil overs have this also. Which ones exactly, I don't know. I know the bottom of the line Tein's re-use the OEM upper shock mounts which helps on the NVH side quite a bit.
Zoolander - I've written replies on a few threads on my opinions regarding the various suspension setups I've had on threads in the suspension section. You are welcome to search for them using my user name. My impressions were focused mainly from the street perspective so its not to be compared to howard coleman's excellent thread and advice on his track/street oriented thread in the Suspension section (which is an excellent and informative thread that is well worth a read).
The problem with trying to search forums for information on suspension setups and ride quality in particular is that a lot of the info is very subjective - a matter of opinion. Making it more complicated is that you don't know the frame of reference of the person writing the review. A 20 year old's impression of good ride quality is a lot different than a 40 or 60 year old's impression.
Furthermore, the specific roads you drive on in your area will affect your impression of a given suspension package also. If you drive on the comparatively smooth,well kept roads of Cali compared to frost heave, broken up roads of NYC for example, your opinion on a good riding suspension will differ greatly.
11-04-08, 05:21 PM
#64
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The problem with trying to search forums for information on suspension setups and ride quality in particular is that a lot of the info is very subjective - a matter of opinion. Making it more complicated is that you don't know the frame of reference of the person writing the review. A 20 year old's impression of good ride quality is a lot different than a 40 or 60 year old's impression.
Furthermore, the specific roads you drive on in your area will affect your impression of a given suspension package also. If you drive on the comparatively smooth,well kept roads of Cali compared to frost heave, broken up roads of NYC for example, your opinion on a good riding suspension will differ greatly.
Furthermore, the specific roads you drive on in your area will affect your impression of a given suspension package also. If you drive on the comparatively smooth,well kept roads of Cali compared to frost heave, broken up roads of NYC for example, your opinion on a good riding suspension will differ greatly.
I am older and -as much as I like sporty rides- I probably would lean a bit more over to a slightly more "controlled" ride, especially considering, like I said, that my car is nowhere near to seeing the track.
On a slightly different note, I am a bit curious about this: would a set of coilovers be lighter in weight than a set of shocks and spings and/or lighter in weight than a stock setup? And if so, of how much?
Sorry, I am just a curious guy.
11-04-08, 07:42 PM
#66
The GC coil overs have a polyurethane pad at the top to help dampen some of the noise, vibration and harshness one would feel from metal to metal spring against mounting surface. That pad is much smaller than the OEM upper shock mount but it definitely helps.
Other coil overs have this also. Which ones exactly, I don't know. I know the bottom of the line Tein's re-use the OEM upper shock mounts which helps on the NVH side quite a bit.
Zoolander - I've written replies on a few threads on my opinions regarding the various suspension setups I've had on threads in the suspension section. You are welcome to search for them using my user name. My impressions were focused mainly from the street perspective so its not to be compared to howard coleman's excellent thread and advice on his track/street oriented thread in the Suspension section (which is an excellent and informative thread that is well worth a read).
The problem with trying to search forums for information on suspension setups and ride quality in particular is that a lot of the info is very subjective - a matter of opinion. Making it more complicated is that you don't know the frame of reference of the person writing the review. A 20 year old's impression of good ride quality is a lot different than a 40 or 60 year old's impression.
Furthermore, the specific roads you drive on in your area will affect your impression of a given suspension package also. If you drive on the comparatively smooth,well kept roads of Cali compared to frost heave, broken up roads of NYC for example, your opinion on a good riding suspension will differ greatly.
Other coil overs have this also. Which ones exactly, I don't know. I know the bottom of the line Tein's re-use the OEM upper shock mounts which helps on the NVH side quite a bit.
Zoolander - I've written replies on a few threads on my opinions regarding the various suspension setups I've had on threads in the suspension section. You are welcome to search for them using my user name. My impressions were focused mainly from the street perspective so its not to be compared to howard coleman's excellent thread and advice on his track/street oriented thread in the Suspension section (which is an excellent and informative thread that is well worth a read).
The problem with trying to search forums for information on suspension setups and ride quality in particular is that a lot of the info is very subjective - a matter of opinion. Making it more complicated is that you don't know the frame of reference of the person writing the review. A 20 year old's impression of good ride quality is a lot different than a 40 or 60 year old's impression.
Furthermore, the specific roads you drive on in your area will affect your impression of a given suspension package also. If you drive on the comparatively smooth,well kept roads of Cali compared to frost heave, broken up roads of NYC for example, your opinion on a good riding suspension will differ greatly.
Not sure how right you are on that the GC pads. I have a set out in my room right now and the pad seems to be rubber.
11-04-08, 07:56 PM
#67
Bottom line: there are NEVER enough opinions on suspension components. I, too, have been researching this subject and have read most of the threads and still cannot make a decision. At least this new thread on this much discussed topic finally cleared up my confusion on coilovers. I bought new rubber upper mounts ($60 each) in preparation for my coilover install, but I guess I don't need those if I DO end up getting a coilover system, as it's built-in (unless I break apart the system to add the rubber - no point in that). But coilovers are metal to metal, which Howard Coleman does not recommend. But they are still very popular and has the best adjustability for ride height......
Shocks/Springs/Upper mounts almost = cost of lower end coil-overs, but it sounds like lower end coilovers aren't worth it. I want to adjust my ride height with some performance thrown in. Is Ground Control my answer? Good thing I can return the rubber mounts.
Shocks/Springs/Upper mounts almost = cost of lower end coil-overs, but it sounds like lower end coilovers aren't worth it. I want to adjust my ride height with some performance thrown in. Is Ground Control my answer? Good thing I can return the rubber mounts.
02-13-09, 10:27 PM
#68
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Bottom line: there are NEVER enough opinions on suspension components. I, too, have been researching this subject and have read most of the threads and still cannot make a decision. At least this new thread on this much discussed topic finally cleared up my confusion on coilovers. I bought new rubber upper mounts ($60 each) in preparation for my coilover install, but I guess I don't need those if I DO end up getting a coilover system, as it's built-in (unless I break apart the system to add the rubber - no point in that). But coilovers are metal to metal, which Howard Coleman does not recommend. But they are still very popular and has the best adjustability for ride height......
Shocks/Springs/Upper mounts almost = cost of lower end coil-overs, but it sounds like lower end coilovers aren't worth it. I want to adjust my ride height with some performance thrown in. Is Ground Control my answer? Good thing I can return the rubber mounts.
Shocks/Springs/Upper mounts almost = cost of lower end coil-overs, but it sounds like lower end coilovers aren't worth it. I want to adjust my ride height with some performance thrown in. Is Ground Control my answer? Good thing I can return the rubber mounts.
sorry for bringing this up from dead but where did you get the upper rubber mount from?
I need to get them as well
