pugg57

how can i tell what the issue is? what do i need to do to diagnose it? is the problem with the link itself or is it just a bushing? i have a slight... bonk, bonk... noise in the rear end. its not consistent though, not always under turning, reversing, etc. just walking around the car last night literally kicking the tires and i got things narrowed down to the lower portion on the front side of the driver side rear tire.... i.e. where the toe link is the supporting item. it doesn't look like anything is wrong with the link itself but what am i lookin for?

i tried to sift through the muck with a search and on a few webpages but well, nothing i found really says how to tell which is busted, just that "it" goes bad.

cruiser

You will really need to lift the wheel of the ground and then try to move it like you can move your front wheels (i.e. in and out). If the wheel is not solid and you notice some movement its most likely you toe-link, although your bushings could also need replacement.

pugg57

gotcha... will do this evening after i'm done mowing

does anyone know if the rotary extreme or rx7store toe links come complete with new bushings?

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

bushings fail in a time serial.

first to fail generally is the large bushing in the front of the lower (rear) longitudinal link. since you said it seemed to be coming from in front of the tire and low that's probably your problem. mazda does not sell the bushing separate from the link! you have to buy the aluminum arm w the bushing for somewhere around 200 each. check around for an alternative. i run solid bushings pressed into the original arm which is a simple process.

second to fail are the 2 "pillowball"/spherical bushings in the lower latitudinal link. they make a clicking noise when worn.

finally the toe link.

howard coleman

pugg57

so... i should just replace the toe link and bushings while i'm at it? i'm gonna give Jason a call later then i suppose... thanks guys.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Put the car up on stands as previously mentioned, so the suspension is unsupported. Then see if you can get a friend to help. While you're underneath, have your friend push and pull on the tire. I've found that I couldn't SEE movement or slop in the bushings as well as I could FEEL it. So while your buddy is trying to move the wheel in all directions, put your hand on the various suspension parts too. The point is, don't just look and listen.
If it is the pillow-ball bushings (I think there are three on each side of the rear suspension) including the outer end of the toe-link. Very little wear made alot of noise on my car.

alberto_mg

I like the rotary extreme toe links better. Do a search on toe links to see various discussions on the topic. I don't think you can not search on rotary extreme fyi

cruiser

You can get new bushings only for toe links from www.mazdatrix.com. $50/bushing which is a nice alternative to buying new ones.

pugg57

either the rx7store or the rotaryextreme ones would be better than what i have... i'm going to just upgrade the whole thing if that IS in fact the problem, but thanks for the link cruiser. its my daily driver and will most likely never be a race car... perhaps a show car, but never a racer. i'm gonna have to continue researching this for a day or two and then get under there this weekend sometime. its not bad or anything, just a weird noise.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Don't be too anxious to replace a bunch of bushings and bearings. They are numerous, and expensive. As stated earlier, you need to get under the car and start pulling and wiggling on your suspension components. It isn't too hard to feel what is loose if you take your time.

If your toe links are worn, I suggest that you simply buy OEM bearings, and replace them on the existing arm. Aftermarket bearings will provide no benefit for your use.

pugg57

yeah, that's true, but i'f i'm gonna spend $200 on four bushings and keep the old toe links (provided that is the problem) why not spend $20 more and get a nice set of aftermarket toe links w/ SS bushings? i know it won't benefit me for my use, however, if my stock links go bad after replacing the bushings, then, i'll have to spend $200 ea. for new tie rods... meaning i've spent a total of $600 to fix something that could have been done right the first time for $220

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Different people have different definitions for "doing it right". In this case, my definition is to "do it right" by providing the least expensive and longest lasting solution. The OEM bushings will last longer than the aftermarket ones. The aftermarket ones provide you with no additional benefit. The OEM arm isn't going to "wear out". It will only need to be replaced if it is broken, and that won't happen unless you are in an accident.

DamonB

Pressing new stock bushings into the original toe links is the way to go. Trust me. The stock parts will last longer than the aftermarket parts. When you get down to it the initial costs are about the same to buy aftermarket links or new stock bushings but if you go aftermarket they will not last as long. Aftermarket will also require you to have the rear end realigned afterwards. If your alignment is already good on the stockers you can just press new ones in and as long as you label the left and the right you can just pop them back on with no alignment needed. No matter how you add it up the initial costs are about the same and the stock parts will last longer.

The aftermarket toe links provide no performance improvement over stock bushings in good condition. I know this for a fact as I've spent a lot of time on both and I'm sticking with stock.

pugg57

what tools do i need to "press" those new OEM bushings into place then? i'm starting to see the logic... i guess i kinda assumed the aftermarket ones would last longer for some strange reason

DamonB

Take them too a machine shop. I've never been able to get those particular ones out by using the poor man's nut, bolt and socket method. Whatever you do don't try and hammer them out, you'll screw up the bore of the toe link.

pugg57

sweet... i've got a good shop at work hooray for that

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

I just had my car up on a lift last night looking for the source of my rear clunking. The rear wheels both turn side to side. After looking last night I am 99% certain that it is the pillow ball bushing next to the lower shock mount, on both sides. The others seem to be in decent shape but I am going to replace all 6 anyway , it is just a matter of time until they fail.
I was almost certain my toe links were bad because of the side to side motion, but upon inspection they seem perfectly fine. Definately get down there and wiggle things around.

cruiser

My right wheel still wiggles after pillowball's replacement. Right inner toe link bushing is shot and needs replacement... This causes toe in-out variations and can cause unpredictable behaviour (read oversteer...)

InsaneGideon

I thought I heard some minor, intermittant knocking going on back there on my car, when trolling through parking lots and such. I suspected the toe links.

A while ago, I noticed I could rotate one of my toe links a suprising amount (say a 5 or 8 degree-deflection) with the car on the ground (loaded suspension). I know this isn't a true diagnosis procedure, but I'd expect things to be reasonably tight back there. Stock bushings aren't that loose, are they?

Guys with good stock toe links & bushings, did you notice the same thing?

RE Suzuki

I just bought the rx7store toe links, im just waiting for it..(-.-) z z z

pugg57

don't take my word for it, but to me, that sounds alot like, NO! really sounds like there's a lot of play in your bushing... if you considder the threads are most likely of the machine screw (fine thread) variety... we can assume around 20tpi (threads per inch) meaning everything thread covers 0.05" of linear travel... using 6 deg. as a median deflection, that really only means its allowing for 0.00083" of linear travel. if it was loaded then yes, that could very well be a sign of a bad bushing because when you think about it, that's not alot of play at all but then, it might just be the play in the design... i would be more worried if you could turn it by hand vs. with a wrench... if its that loose, you may have another issue

cruiser

Your rear wheel shouldn't move in any direction. Check suspesnion asap.

InsaneGideon

Believe me, I'm completely suspicious of them. Though, it also surprises me that I'm not hearing more clunking than I am. I checked the link a few months ago, when I last drove the car... I may be remembering there being more play than there actually was. Perhaps I’m exaggerating.



By "rotational deflection" I meant the WHOLE toe-link assembly moves that much as a unit... like both bushings are loose. The "adjustment" is staying the same. I checked if bushings were allowing noticeable lateral movement, they weren't. It's kind of like when you have a heim-joint link on two parallel rods. You can move the link around as it floats on the bearings, but you can't move it side to side... it still performs the job of being a radial link. Of course, the toe-link doesn't move quite so freely because it's a rubber bushing, rather than a spherical bearing.



I was wondering if the link itself was carrying no load at the time. Then it's possible it isn't compressing the bushings, therefore the bushings would the at the "loosest" they're going to be.



I'm not really relying on this info as a test for bushing condition. I'm just wondering what people with good bushings are experiencing.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

InsaneGideon, FWIW, I've got a car with a little over 60k and mine do the same thing. Additionally it doesn't seem to matter much whether there is load on the suspension or not. Because of this, I figured that was the way they're suppose to be, but now you've got me thinking. I've been chasing rear suspension noises in this thing since I bought it at 53k., with limited success.

InsaneGideon

Thanks for the input.FWIW, I just hit 40k myself.

On a side note, it looks like I won't be cutting and pasting from Word into the new WYSISYG editor w/out double checking. I'm using the "plasma" rx7club skin and can't see my text in the previous post.