3rd Generation Specific (1993-2002) 1993-2002 Discussion including performance modifications and Technical Support Sections.

Think i'll hit my meager peasant hp goals?

Old 05-29-17, 04:20 PM
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Think i'll hit my meager peasant hp goals?

Hey they my fellow RX-7 brotha's. I have a simple low power goal of 325-350 rwhp for my beautiful little FD3S. Below is my current shopping list and I'm ordering everything now while I'm on my way back from deployment. I would ideally like to eventually end up around 350-375, but for now I want to just hit somewhere around 325 and decide for sure or not if I want more. I'm 100% stock right now with my car at around 43k miles. So far my shopping list is as follows:


Greddy V-Mount IC/RAD/Intake kit
HKS Super Turbo full exhaust
APEXI PFC ECU
RP Competition Fuel Pump


Do you think i'll reach my short term goals with this setup and be fine with my reliability? Eventually I want to get my engine pulled and a street port and maybe milled for some 3mm apex seals, but the waiting list for the place I went to in Virginia is 2 1/2 months.


Thanks,
Danny
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Old 05-29-17, 04:57 PM
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Depends on the dyno
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Old 05-29-17, 05:09 PM
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Not a mustang dyno.
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Old 05-29-17, 05:19 PM
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I would like to know the compression # to see if you need a rebuild , at 43K , I think the OEM engine has still a way to go.

Rebuild aren't cheap, and if it's only for a street port--)not worth it.... lots of Money for lil Power...

3mm is old school stuff that creates
more failure points, I wouldn't go there...

You want easy power , add water.
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Old 05-29-17, 05:30 PM
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I don't know much about water injection. What's the upkeep and ease of upkeep on something like that past installation? I may just ending installing the intake,rad, ic, and exhaust and seeing how I feel about that, then go for bigger injectors, fuel pump, bnr stage 3's. If the engine goes, it goes.
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Old 05-29-17, 08:00 PM
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I recommend you stop thinking in terms of hp and start thinking in terms of the fun to reliability ratio. But if you're committed to setting hp goals, give this a read. You might be surprised what bolt-ons produce....

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/
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Old 05-29-17, 08:52 PM
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+1 on no to the 3mm apex seals. That was a good idea 20 years ago, time has moved on. If the motor is fine, run it as it is, no sense tearing apart a totally good motor.

I would really look at water injection. The modern kits are really simple to set up and make your car run like it's a nice cold day all the time. Very little upkeep or anything involved, especially if you just use washer fluid or something simple.

The Banzai thread really shows how a few simple parts can make good, reliable power.

Also, while making power is fun and sexy, let your car tell you what it needs. No sense making 350hp on crappy brakes, worn out suspension, ratty interior, and bald tires. You really need to listen to the car and let it tell you what it needs.

Dale
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Old 05-29-17, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DaleClark View Post
+1 on no to the 3mm apex seals. That was a good idea 20 years ago, time has moved on. If the motor is fine, run it as it is, no sense tearing apart a totally good motor.

I would really look at water injection. The modern kits are really simple to set up and make your car run like it's a nice cold day all the time. Very little upkeep or anything involved, especially if you just use washer fluid or something simple.

The Banzai thread really shows how a few simple parts can make good, reliable power.

Also, while making power is fun and sexy, let your car tell you what it needs. No sense making 350hp on crappy brakes, worn out suspension, ratty interior, and bald tires. You really need to listen to the car and let it tell you what it needs.

Dale
@Sgtblue, I hear yah, that's why I said I was going to start around 325 and see if I wanted to go up from there.


@Dale I'll definitely be reading into water injection. My FD is definitely in great condition, almost perfect even, the prior 1 owner had 3 including a spirit r and took very good care of them, although breaks, suspension, tires, and gearing will definitely come up as I hit the 350 area. I will strive for 325 and drive it for a year or so probably about 6k miles before I upgrade further. But I know I wont be happy with anything less than 300 ina a 2800lbs car, so I definitely wanted to reach that goal.


-Danny
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Old 05-30-17, 09:20 AM
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You will begin to approach the safe limits of the stock fuel injectors at 310-320whp. Yes some have gone higher, but that involves running the injectors static (at or near 100% duty cycle) which can overheat them, affect the spray pattern, and leaves no safety margin. The easiest thing with the twins is the Full Function Engineering FD stepup kit which adds a secondary rail, regulator, and ID injectors of your choice.

An ignition upgrade will also help at that power level. Since the HKS twinpower is discontinued, your options are to ty to find a used one, or better yet add the Sakebomb IGN-1A coil setup.

375whp on twins will require a bar of boost or more and they won't last long at that level. Again I know its been done, but it isn't reliable. The stock twins, 99 twins, and even SP twins all have the small shafts and 270 degree thrust bearings. They cannot take the loads of elevated boost. Only good option on twins is BNRs.

Meth injection helps, but the Greddy V mount is already very well performing. As you approach or exceed 1 bar of boost on pump gas, meth helps stave off detonation.

If your compression is solid and the motor exhibits no other issues, it is not cost effective to rebuild the motor just for a port. However if there are any issues, it is smarter to rebuild the motor before it goes because there will be less of a chance to trash the housings and other components. 3mm seals are old news. We run oem for stock applications, RX Parts for everything else. To my knowledge no one has broken a RX Parts seal.

Above all, a solid tune with a professional tuner is essential.

If you have any questions or need anything feel free to message me or call me at the shop 732-662-1794
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Last edited by IRPerformance; 05-30-17 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 05-30-17, 01:01 PM
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Meager peasant HP goal? It's a testament to the rotary that our thinking has gotten so skewed.

FYI:
325RWHP for an engine this size is not meager. For a perspective checkout Howard Coleman's thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...and-fd-941954/

Also given that this car weighs in at 28XXXlbs, @ 325RWHP the FD is no slouch, extremely fun, and yet very reliable . But to answer your question - Add injectors and you should hit 325 just fine. IMO once you start boosting 15 psi or higher (more power) it is time to look at changing out the turbos for something that is better suited for the task.


Edit- BTW these cars when healthy dyno at around 225RWHP so you would be increasing the power by 44%. Not bad specially considering how it easy it is to do it.

Last edited by Montego; 05-30-17 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 05-30-17, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by IRPerformance View Post
You will begin to approach the safe limits of the stock fuel injectors at 310-320whp.

this matches my experience as well.

I dyno'd right at 310whp (dynojet) and my injector duty is about 95%. this is with the stock twins at 11psi...

other mods are: VMIC, actual cold air intake, full exhaust, powerFC.

i'd personally set a limit at 10-11psi so you don't run 100% duty and lean out, unless you plan to add fuel as ihor posted above.
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Old 05-30-17, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jacobcartmill View Post
this matches my experience as well.

I dyno'd right at 310whp (dynojet) and my injector duty is about 95%. this is with the stock twins at 11psi...

other mods are: VMIC, actual cold air intake, full exhaust, powerFC.

i'd personally set a limit at 10-11psi so you don't run 100% duty and lean out, unless you plan to add fuel as ihor posted above.


I am joking with the meager hp goals. I think 350-375 is the perfect range for this particular vehicle to be a reliable 3-4 days a week (14' WRX is my DD) driven beast.


I'm swapping my fuel pump, but don't plan on swapping injectors for a while, although I may change my mind. It would probably be better to do that now instead of getting tuned, and then another tune for the injectors alone. Like I said I won't go continue on past 325 (if I even hit that) without more supporting mods and STG 3 BNRs.


I bought my greddy v-mount entire kit and something got messed up and wound up with 3x the amount of charges to my account for $9,600+ so once that gets resolved tomorrow or the day after I'll continue buying the rest of my parts. I'll be fine chilling somewhere between 300-325 for a year before I decide to move on up. I volunteered for another combat deployment to further fund my car part buying habit. So i'll be gone anyway. I'll drive this bad boy at 300+ for the next few months and then leave it in some caring hands for a year, come back for an engine rebuild and step it up to 350-375, maybe throw on a rocket bunny or spec gt aero kit.


Thanks for the advice guys.
-Danny
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Old 05-31-17, 10:13 AM
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Baseline the car now as it sits. Do a dyno and if you care about 1/4 mile, do that too.
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Old 06-02-17, 09:16 AM
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You won't be able to get much out of the BNRs on stock injectors. 95% duty cycle is pushing it and leaving no safety margin. At the very least add a FFE stepup kit with your choice of secondaries. I recommend ID 2000s.
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Old 06-05-17, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by IRPerformance View Post
You won't be able to get much out of the BNRs on stock injectors. 95% duty cycle is pushing it and leaving no safety margin. At the very least add a FFE stepup kit with your choice of secondaries. I recommend ID 2000s.


Definitely upgrade fuel injection with the increased airflow. Thanks for the suggestion. A quick question if you don't mind. Right now my FD has a Mazda speed exhaust(Haven't driven it with the mazda speed exhaust). I was thinking about getting the HKS super turbo full exhaust but do you think I should just ride it out with the mazda speed?
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Old 06-05-17, 05:14 PM
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Exhaust is really a matter of personal preference.
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