Rx7aholic

iTrader: (22)

Hey I just received this book mazda school, {certified Rx-7 specialist training}. Anyway this book give alot of good info on 3rd gen basically. And 1 of the topic is Y they do recommend SYNTHETIC oil is for the following reasons. All Rx-7 have to pass emission testing in order to be certifiedfor sale in the USA and Emission testing is done on mineral oils. Because rotary uses oil injections, Synthetic oil could reduce the life of the emission components such as catalytic coverters and o2 sensors. These parts has to pass 50,000,80000 and 100,000 miles durability testing,which was performed with minerals oils. The Rotary burns oil to lubricate the apex seals, and synthetic burns at a higher temp than mineral oils. Repeated shorts trips may cause the synthetic oil to build, leading to spark plugs fouling. Finally oil sparyed inside the rotor cavities can contact the rotor oil seal " O " rings and oil inside the combustion chamber can contact the housing seal "O" rings. Long term exposure to synthetic oils may cause these seals to swell and deteriorate,resulting in an exchange in engine. This Y mazda does not condone the use of synthetic oil in Rx-7. Also Y SCCA Racers use synthetic oil and y can I use it? Cause Racers synthetic oils for many reasons: Racers frequently tear down and inspect their engines,thus replacing all seals, Racers do not need emissions certifications, Racers cars are not covered under warraty. Oil in the i/c and air supply hose on all turbo rotaries is a normal functions of the pcv systems to control blow by. During boost , the pcv valve closes and boost pressure from manifold is directed through the engine housings,oil filler neck and into the air intake funnel in front og the front turbo. From there it passes throught the front turbo and into the i/c and throttle body,This coats all intake air system with oil and is an indication of a NORMAL OPERATION od the pcv system. This is not a defect. I hope this answers most people Q about synthetic oils. Khris

ZeroBanger

SYNTHENTIC OWNZZZ YOU.

I'll never go back to dyno-juice.

rotary-tt

Ok, maybe some official word. Can you scan this and post it up? It would be more convincing if we see it on Mazda letterhead...

jramosrx7

This could very well be correct; however, it doesn't tell the whole story. Many years ago (1993) in discussing all the minor problems I was having with my FD (bought new in Aug '92), I discussed this directly with the guy who runs the Mazda service tech training school in Pleasanton. He and I got on the phone with an English-speaking engineer in Japan. The gist of that conversation was that the main reason Mazda does not recommend using syntheitics is because they did not want to (or have the money to) test all the different blends out there. They agree it's better for the turbo, but for the reasons you note, there could be some synthetics that would cause problems. The engineer agreed that most would not, but was not willing to divulge any that had been tested and cleared. In a sense, if you're using a synthetic, it's a crapshoot. However, I have never heard of an engine failure that could be tied to such use. I have used Mobil 1 for many years.

jdhuegel1

I have yet to see any problems with synthetic. But who knows...

Rx7aholic

iTrader: (22)

Well guy's I miss a word in the first sentence, I meant to say is that mazda do no recommend synthetic oils for use in rotary engine. However this book is from mazda school and they Engineers and race team come's up this information for they Technician. What I think they trying to say is that if u use synthetic oils in your Rx7 mostly likely the engine will not last to 100.000 miles. Also I don't anyone who has using syntehtic oil and has a 100,000 miles on they engine. I am just realting some input info from mazda engineer's and race team support. BTW only u are A+ mechanic then u will get this book and it's new. And I happen to know someone who's is a mechanic {a+} and mazda school instructor.

ZeroBanger

Yea cause 3rd gen Engines always get over 100K miles.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Straight from the Racing Beat Rotary Performance Technical Manual:

"The Mazda factory does not recommend the use of synthetic oils in their rotary engines - specifically addressing this issue in the Owner's Manual.

In 1979, Racing Beat began testing synthetic lubrication products. Without a doubt, the best synthetic oils do perform well in extreme heat (over 300 F) and extreme cold (below 32 F), but by the nature of Mazda's rotary engine, the oil temperature never exceeds 250 F without severe engine damage due to other factors. In Souther California, we have difficulty seeing the low-temperature benefits: however, when we put synthetic lubricants in the engine, transmission, and differential in our IMSA GTU race car, we immediately saw what we later found to be a common result: The oil temperature in all three locations dropped 5 to 10 F for the same operating conditions. This is apparently due to two factors: reduced friction between sliding surfaces, and reduced foaming. As we continued to use synthetic oil products it became clear that they genuinely reduced wear. We also found benefits in street use. On two occassions, cars with "scratchy" transmissions synchronizers were completely cured by a change to synthetic gear lube. After many years of experience with these products we have observed only one problem: because of the reduced friction, the time necessary to break in an engine, transmission, or limted slip differential (standard differentials are no problem) is excessively long, so we recommend using mineral oil in all three for a time to ensure rapid break in."

crazysuprakid

From my understanding sythetic oils were a lot less advanced in 1992 to the point of where dyno oil was better. But here it is 10 years later, and many improvements have been made.

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

Good for you, do you want a cookie?

Please spell out womplete words instead of using U and Y, it makes it so much easier to read.
that is all, thank-you.

BTW, I have been using Mobile1 for a year and a half and just switched to Royal Purple. I have always used synthetic gear lubes. There are enough people out there who have been using synthetics in rotaries long enough that I am confident it will not reduce my engine, turbo, or emissions systems life in any way.

Engberg

He was just bring to the forum an official side not yet heard, atleast the idea of it coming from an official Mazda document. There are many arguments for both sides, mine is...i'd rather protect the turbos than the engine as the turbos are more expensive! haha Thank for the post tho, it is interesting... If you find anything else interesting in that book please post!

scottie

Honestly the reason Mazda put that statement in the owners manual is because they did not have full conclusive test with synthetics to say it was okay or not. Like JRAMOSRX7 stated the company did not want to spend all that money going through and testing all these oils which were relatively new at the time. Anyways after discussing this arguement with several of the best shops in the US and asking what the engine rebuilders use in their own cars, I went with Mobil 1 synthetic. Thats just me.

Street King

MOBIL 1 FOR LIFE!!!

crazysuprakid

Valvoline 0wnz Mobile 1!!!

PVerdieck

Valvoline
Penzoil
Castrol
Mobil-1
Red-Line
Royal Purple

10 year old positions on 10 year old synthetic oil mean nothing to me now and never will. Why don't you find something worthwhile, like what the last generation of j-spec RX-7s used, and what will be in the RX-8.

rotorbrain

if you guys are hard-core synthetic oil users, then why dont you use a block off plate on your MOP that has ports on it to inject synthetic 2-cycle oil. . . like amsoil 2 cycle. that ***** the bomb. ill be doing that with my new rebuild. ive used castrol syntec for a long time and will continue using it. i dont know what mobil 1 is putting in their oil now, but when i looked at it they were using teflon. that stuff is nice and slippery, but try cleaning it off after extended periods of use.

paul

IgoSlow

I talked to a few engineers and the reason mazda stated that was because they said sythentics didn't burn as well. but that was 10 years ago. They said it is fine to use sythentics becuase it is far more advance then the synthetics back then and it burns fine. And it was a castrol engineer i talked to and castrol RULES.. He explained to me how their oil was far better and more advance then that of any other oil compnay.. didn't remeber much of what he said cause it kinda blew right past me as i didn't understand much of the terminology he used but i was convinced (because his pitch sounded great and he was an engineer for a couple of other oil companies in the past) and all i use is castrol. For the past 6 years now.. in my mercedes and 7.. well just 7 now.. mercedes got flooded..

And I use royal purple premix and blocked off my omp just last night. haltech wasn't controlling it anymore so i decided jsut o block it. Was a pain in the *** too. OMP was hard as hell to get to.

Silex

LOL you guys are funny :P. I love when "offcial documents" come up, but unlike say...a war where it might change our entire outlook on history, this will not (hopefully) produce any lifechanging results. It's just oil for crying out loud! And personally, Royal Purple sounds nice, so go with that. That's my "official" document .

T88NosRx7

iTrader: (1)

cool

bureau_c

Well, IMO this is a load of crap. If Mazda really did say that, then maybe we know why their cars have so many problems. Any time you see extremely general statements like "synthetic oil burns hotter" blah blah blah you know its not based on fact. There are many different brands and formulations of synthetic oil...how many of them did they test in order to come up with a statement like this?

FWIW...Royal Purple 10W30, 93 FD base. Sue me!

jds

adam c

iTrader: (2)

My understanding is that it is better to use a standard oil when breaking in your engine, then switch to a synthetic. There are many supporters of synthetic oil, inlcuding Pineapple racing. They recommend Mobil one, which I have been using for years.

When I got my oil temp gauge, my car had castrol in it. Shortly after that, I switched back to Mobil one. There was about a 10 degree drop in oil temperature under the same conditions. I think that is a significant number.

Adam

Kento

Wasn't this subject just discussed last week? Synthetic oils back the early '90s contained large amounts of phosphorous, which is bad for both O2 sensors and catylytic converters. Many also had a high ash content, which causes carbon build-up in the combustion chamber-- bad for apex seals.
Nearly all synthetic oils manufactured now have the API "SJ" rating, which specifies low content for both phosphorous and ash.

Uhhh....if you believe that, I've got some great swampland I can sell you. If you knew about the real content of Castrol oil, you'd be thinking twice about forking out the cash for their stuff. Don't get me wrong, they have decent dino oil, but their high-priced synthetic stuff is not all it's cracked up (and advertised) to be.

SleepR1

I recently replaced my motor and turbos with a street ported KDR Malloy Reman and new J-spec twins. I started with SYNTETIC Mobil 1 15W50 2000 miles ago (based on the recommendation from my engine builder), and will continue to use SYNTHETIC Mobil 1 15W50. When the time comes for a rebuild and new turbos, I'll report the number of miles the current KDR ported Malloy motor and J-spec twins went before failing. That will be the definitive test result of SYTHETIC Mobil 1 15W50 in a KDR ported Malloy Reman 13B REW with J-spec twin Hitachi turbos.

xurotaryrocket

This subject is SO DAMNED TIRED now. Just do whatever YOU want. Quit busting people's ***** for trying to add some pertinent information. At least he is trying to put up some useful info (of which there is very little here anymore). There is a reason my post count is so low.........

PS - Valvoline does not own Mobil1. Please do some research.

THE ONLY RULE THAT REALLY APPLIES HERE IS - OIL is better than NO OIL. It's a rotary. So, its not a matter of IF you will kill your engine, but when.

rotary-tt

Yes, no need to go through this argument again. He is posting new info. Someone please just post up the Mazda Technicial training manual with this excerpt about rotary oil in it. Please make this the NEW training manual, not one from 10 years ago when synthetics were different. Otherwise this thread is the same as the last one...

And while we are at it, someone please find the same training info on the RX-8. We'd all like to see what oil Mazda now recommends for the new Renesis...